Need some advice, friend afraid of Tosca

Doberluv

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#21
There ya go! A Fila! Or you could lead a pony through your living room. You could flood her with fear like any good dog whisperer does. "Deal with it!!! Cheh!" Give her a little prod with your fingers to her neck and hold her down if she tries to move. Get Tosca, or better yet an adult Irish wolfhound to come and stand, drooling over her, That should make her feel a whole lot better about it all.
 

ToscasMom

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#23
I could bring my cousin's Boxer Sinatra over and make him slobber all over her and do all his regular stuff. You know, steal her purse, jump in her lap, stuff like that. Tosca will look like a saint next time she shoves her squeaky toy at her.
 

Doberluv

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#24
LOL.

I need to make a correction. When I called it classical conditioning, technically, it's actually classical counter conditioning because this "irrational" fear was trained into your friend, probably also by means of classical conditioning and now you want to un-do that training. Probably "big dog" was paired with something scary that happened in the past either directly to her or to someone else she knew. Something about the "big dog" has been associated with something particularly frightening to her. It would be interesting to know what that something was that was paired with the big dog. It could be a dog bite or it could be something that has nothing to do with the dog, but the big dog was a "precursor" to something else horrible. (?)

Also, on second thought, instead of starting out with 1/2 hour to an hour, I'd shorten that up drastically at first....for just 10 minutes or so, shorter than the time that she is able to stay comfortable. End it while she's still perfectly comfortable instead of taking her up to the limit. And gradually, over a period of time, increase the time that she sees the dog. Keep the dog at a comfortable distance for a long time for now. Then put her in a bedroom until your friend leaves. It won't be forever that she has to be locked up.

See, I told you I'd keep thinking. LOL.
 

Doberluv

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#26
#25 Today, 03:30 PM
ToscasMom
Dog&Cat Slave Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,169



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok Gotcha. Cripes, I feel like Freud.lol.
:yikes:

LOL. Thank goodness for Pavlov.:D
 

ToscasMom

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#27
Well at least it isn't Skinner. He studied rats only and applied it to children. No kidding. I took graduate educations courses where BF Skinner was worshipped. At least Pavlov used dogs.
 

daaqa

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#28
i am someone who has nervous issues around big dogs! i was bitten as a child [unprovoked by me] which, i believe, stamped a message to me that a dog can bite for no reason. so, unless i have known a dog really well [i.e., helped with training, etc] since it was a puppy, i have to take some steps to make myself be more at ease around them.

i do not get paralized by fear, but it's likely that i will avoid the dog. here's what makes me feel better and more confident: knowing i have some measure of control over the dog. if i can tell the dog to sit/down/off/go-away and the dog totally obeys me, then i don't feel that the dog is a threat and in no time, the dog and i can become great buddies. this is often reinforced by watching the dog and a child interact, and seeing the dog obey the child and play well with the child.

it has also helped me to have read books/articles about dog behavior and body language. if i feel i can read the dog, i am more confident.

if she has experience with toy breeds, that may have actually made things worse... i find that many toy dog owners allow lots more misbehavior because the dogs do less damage. getting snapped at/growled at by a small dog is laughable. realizing that a large dog could do the same is scary. [note: this is partly why when we get our next dog - a large one - it will be a puppy.]

anyway, if your friend is willing to work with you on this, and tosca is well trained in basic obedience [she seems to beautiful and well cared for not to be], maybe taking them outside and having your friend get tosca to do some obedience for her might help?
 

ToscasMom

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#29
daaga, thank you for telling me this. Hearing it from someone who has the same feelings is really helpful! She was never bitten but she seems to feel the same way you do around bigger dogs. I think I WILL try to get my friend to give Tosca some commands. I'm not too worried about Tosca cooperating, she really is good that way, and I have done some practicing with her with others giving her basic commands, so it might just work. And thank you for the compliment. Tosca's my girlfriend for sure!
 
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#30
Get a Pit Bull instead. They're smaller than collies. ;-)

In all honesty, I wouldn't really know what to do. I'm a super-hardnose when it comes to people not liking my dog. If they don't like her, they don't visit. I think that only time and sensitivity will solve this problem. Hope everything turns out okay.
 

Doberluv

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#31
Daaqa, That IS good to know how you have over come a good deal of your fear.

Get a Pit Bull instead. They're smaller than collies. ;-)

In all honesty, I wouldn't really know what to do. I'm a super-hardnose when it comes to people not liking my dog. If they don't like her, they don't visit. I think that only time and sensitivity will solve this problem. Hope everything turns out okay.
Why would she get a Pitbull when she has a lovely Collie that she's had for some time and grown to love? This is her friend who is afraid of her Collie. Toscasmom isn't going to trade her dog in to suit her friend. I can almost guarantee it. LOL. And it isn't that her friend doesn't like her dog. She's afraid of her dog. Tosca'smom likes and values her friend so that is what this thread was about....not telling her friend to stay away, but to try and help alleviate her fears so her friend would come over more. Tosca'smom likes her friend.
 

ToscasMom

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#32
There's no place in my home for dogs with potentially cat aggressive tendencies or high prey drive. Realizing this is a dog board, I imagine sometimes we overlook cat-love. But I think Baha was kind of kidding here. She knows I'm a Collie gal to the end. There is no way I would want another kind of dog. This dog is perfect for me and my other furry friends. It's like I won the Dog Lottery.

Anyways, I know what you are saying though, Baha. In an earlier post I mentioned how my animals come first. You don't like animals, stay away from my house. That's my rule. This is an exception in that this is a friend of mine for decades. She's like a sister really. I never knew she had a fear of larger dogs. She's always been great with my cats and owned dogs herself, albeit very little ones. lol.

Dober is right. I am never going to trade my dog in for a person (that'll be the day!) but she is important enough in my life to want to help her, me and Tosca sort this out. If she were a husband I would just tell him to hit the road. :lol-sign:
 
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#33
I was kidding. Hence the little ;-) guy. My ironic assumption was if she was afraid of a collie -- the picture of a loveable hero dog -- that she'd really not appreciate a Pit Bull. :lol-sign:
 

Doberluv

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#35
Sorry Baha....it went right over my head. I've been gone all day, running like a maniac, exhausted and my mind is not altogether here.

I agree with you about most everyone....if they don't like my dogs or whatever goes with them...hair, kisses...they can just stay away. LOL.
 

TopShelfPets

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#36
Daaqa, That IS good to know how you have over come a good deal of your fear.



Why would she get a Pitbull when she has a lovely Collie that she's had for some time and grown to love? This is her friend who is afraid of her Collie. Toscasmom isn't going to trade her dog in to suit her friend. I can almost guarantee it. LOL. And it isn't that her friend doesn't like her dog. She's afraid of her dog. Tosca'smom likes and values her friend so that is what this thread was about....not telling her friend to stay away, but to try and help alleviate her fears so her friend would come over more. Tosca'smom likes her friend.
..... it was a joke?

My best and oldest friend doesn't like dogs, but she likes me so much that the last time she visited, i had to work for a couple hours and she took Jager for a walk!

I love the flower idea.

How long have you had Tosca? Is it only recently that your friend has stopped visiting because of her?

Maybe put on a show for her of Tosca's tricks. I do that for my grandmother with Jager once or twice a week. Just sort of a "look what he learned" and i run him through sits and down and giving me five. Showing that I'm gaining better control of him puts her more at ease with having him around.

I bet Tosca can do some really cute tricks. Showing that she's under your control might help reinforce to your friend that she won't do things randomly...
 

ToscasMom

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#37
TopShelf, it's been since Tosca has become adult size. Actually, she admits that Tosca doesn't appear daunting at all, and the dog is very well behaved near her. She knows Tosca is obedience trained and obeys my commands and she has seen this regularly. The dog has really not appeared daunting at all to her in anything she does, and my friend told me that she just has this almost irrational fear that she COULD do something. It's kind of like what Daaqa mentioned.

Like I said, I don't think she's been near any pets bigger than a bread box most of her life. She's had Dachsies and another dog I cannot name, a little hairy thing. :p I think Tosca senses this all and has tried to compensate. Tosca used to push her toys to her for play but now she doesn't do it anymore. I imagine my dog senses her fear. Bless Tosca, she is so sensitive to things like that, really. She's a very gentle baby pony. Tosca isn't really that big to me. I mean it's not like Collies are horses. But I guess next to Dachsies she is. Hell, it's a good thing I didn't get a Fila or something, or I would never see my friend again.:lol-sign:

I've had some great suggestions here and I plan to try them with her and Tosca (including practicing bringing a flower! I love it!). Hopefully, it will help if I do these things in steps over some time. I do have one problem with allowing her to walk Tosca. I am a bit skittish about letting others walk her out of my sight. So I have my own problems. LOL. Really, there is a certain kind of understanding/bond thing between Tosca and me when we are out walking. Kind of subtle sounds and unspoken stuff that nobody else would know. Hard to explain, but I still don't trust others walking my dog very far. I call it my separation anxiety. lol. I wouldn't mind her walking Tosca if I tagged along though.
 

Doberluv

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#38
Oh, I wouldn't think it was a good idea for her to walk Tosca alone. I was imagining more...a nice stroll, the two of you women, with Tosca tagging along. Most of the attention would be chatting about other things, looking at the scenery and Tosca would just be kind of there. Then if she were comfortable with that, you could see if she'd like to hold the leash. But you two would be taking the walk.

But before you did any of that, I'd practice getting her use to just seeing Tosca at a very comforatable distance and working closer very gradually. Let her watch you with her from a distance etc. If she's fearful, up close and personal can be very intimidating.
 

ToscasMom

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#39
Yes, I am going to approach this by trying to put myself in her place. Sometimes, when we see something as irrational or just not so, we tend not to be sensitive enough, so I have to do that.
 
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#40
ToscasMom, I think DoberLuv is on the money. Desensitize and share the joy. I recommend a Lassie marathon. I'm sure it's available on DVD. Little Timmie could never be wrong to trust Lassie, could he?
 

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