Natura (Innova) and Animal Testing

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#41
Another question - If the testing is done on groups of owned sled dogs and hunting dogs, is it really comparable to pet dogs?
In short, no. This is one problem with doing testing in a controlled and/or laboratory setting and one reason why I don't hold feeding trials in accordadnce to AAFCO procedures in high regard.

Each feeding trial requires a minimum of eight animals and the trial must last 26 weeks. The same formulation of food must be fed throughout the trial, although different production batches may be used.AAFCO permits up to 25% of the animals starting the study to be removed from the study for “non-nutritional reasons or poor food intake.†Data recorded from the dispatched animals does not have to be included in the final reports. Finally, even if an animal loses 15% of its initial body weight throughout the course of the trial, the feeding trial is still considered a success. It is worth recognizing that there are no limits to the amount of weight an animal can gain during the trial. This is how AAFCO assures consumers that the pet food label exclaiming “nutritionally adequate!†is indeed nutritionally adequate - by managing to to sustain eight dogs (or maybe only 6 if 25% don't stay in the trial) for an entire six month period. Growth food testing is similar to maintenance food testing, except that growth food testing need only run for 10 weeks. Never mind that most pet foods designed for growth recommend feeding such formulas for the first 49 to 52 weeks of the animal’s life.

Please note that I have not referred to my current publications regarding feeding trials. This is information I remember from last years publications.
 

Fran27

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#42
I'm not seeing how it's cruel either... considering so many dogs are in shelters and are euthanized every day, and how many dogs live outside with almost no interaction at all. Plus from what they say about their testing it really doesn't seem bad at all.

About where they get the dogs from, well, unless we know the ratio it's hard to comment about it. Hopefully they get most of their dogs from rescues and shelters, but I'm sure people would complain about that too.

Has anyone written to them?
 
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#43
Personally, I don't look at it as a cruelty issue providing the animals do in fact have a life as good as they say. Do I think it's an ideal life for a dog? Certainly not, but, as others have stated, working dogs can and usually are happy and well cared for. We're talking about feeding trials here, not invasive and cruel scientific practices.

I have an issue with the adequacy of feeding trials.
 

SharkyX

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#45
STATED BY NATURA:
This thread is based completely on statements provided by the Natura company.
Natura did say that... but your extrapolating the buying from puppy mills part and unethical breeders part simply based on the *opinion* no ethical breeder would sell to Natura.
You've made this asumption based on little to no first hand or even second hand knowledge... when they respond to you're letter (or e-mail... whatever) then we'll know but up until that point you're taking a shot in the dark at what you think current situations must be.

Felt like adding, I don't feed any nature products and I don't intend to start (especially as a distributor for a competitor brand) so opinions aren't influenced by being a loyal customer.
 

J's crew

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#47
A long time ago I saw pictures of Natura's animal testing facility. It was on their website. I believe I got the link from a post by Mordy. I can no longer find the link.

The place looked so much better than 99% of boarding facilities, shelters, or any other place you can think of that houses multiple cats and dogs. The testing is non invasive, meaning they are not being cut open, they are just eating food. From what I saw, if it really is their facility, I see no problem.
 
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#48
Why don't we all email or write them to post pictures of their testing facilities on their website? If enough people show THEM that they are concerned, then they might do something about it.
Let's see if they'll show us their testing facilities.
 

daaqa

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#50
i'm gonna have to go with Lilavati on this one. there are only two things that would make this a problem for me: if the pups are from puppy mills, or if they are lying about the conditions they keep the dogs in. other than that, i see nothing cruel here. in fact, it seems to me much better living conditions than many, many dogs in "homes" that i have come across!

as someone else said, to assume they come from puppymills based on your own personal opinions seems a rather large leap in logic to me.

[for the record, i have never purchased a single innova product in my life.]
 

Dani

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#51
I remember reading that on their website a while ago...it really didn't alarm me. The facility sounds as humane as it can get. It would be nice to see photos, though.
 

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