Just when things were getting better...

[Specsy]

Bella had started becoming a lot more manageable on walks. She was JUST beginning to ignore SOME dogs barking at the fence.

Until today... Some idiot left their chow chow loose... And it came to attack Bella and I. Of course Bella went crazy and I think if she didn't go crazy one of us would have gotten bitten. I have no idea where the chow chow came from but it was quite unkept and it was charging straight at us.

Needless to say, I don't think I am ever going to redeem Bella after this incident. The walk back home was terrible. She was in such a frenzy with every single dog standing at their gates, when I got home I just burst out crying.

I can't do this anymore. I am so frustrated. I love Bella so much and I wish she would realise that both our lives would be so much easier if she was not aggressive. It's hurting me so much to have a dog like this even though I socialised her as a pup and as she grew up and I did everything right with my very first dog. I put in so much effort with her, she was going to be my bright shining star, but its been an uphill struggle for over 2years and now just as it was looking up. Everything has been destroyed.

When we got back home Bella was in such a frenzy she was even barking at the other dogs in my home. She sees every dog as a threat now. Luckily when we got inside the gate and I let her off lead she settled with the other dogs again.

I need hugs, and advice is welcome but please no flaming, I don't think I can handle a torrent of flames right now.

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

((((HUG)))) I'm soooo sorry. That must be so frustrating.

Do you have a fenced yard? Violet doesn't get frequent walks because I have a really bad back. My dad takes her occasionally, but not daily. So to exercise her, I play soccer with her, or toss tennis balls or her rope toy over and over until she gets really tired. Maybe it'd be easier and less stressful on you, if you kept her at home, and exercised her in the yard.

We used to take Violet to the dog park a lot, but since she's gotten older, and it's gotten hotter (I assume as it gets cooler, that we may begin to take her again - I'm not sure) we stopped taking her ANYWHERE and it hasn't effected her or us that much. But being able to take my dogs everywhere isn't a requirement for me, I know it is for some people, and may be for you.

Anyway, thought I'd just give a suggestion! I hope things get better for you and Bella! So sorry this happened.

 

[Specsy]

Thank you very much. Yes we have a very large fenced yard, but I take Bella on walks around the area for the purpose of working on her aggression. However I really don't think it will be possible at all anymore. Bella almost literally exploded at every single dog we walked past, so violently, I was just thanking the heavens that she wasn't a bigger dog and I could at least control her. I never walked her so much for the exercise rather than the training. I am not sure if I am making much sense. I am still very much upset.

 

[Beanie]

(((((BIG HUGS))))))
I don't know that I would totally write everything off just yet. I understand you are really upset and it was super scary, but I wouldn't give up her. She had a really bad scare and so did you - but you might still be able to work through this.

 

[Taqroy]

(((((hugs)))))

I worry about this happening every time I take Mu out. We're lucky, in that there's not that many loose dogs out in our neighborhood, but I've seen enough to make me paranoid. (((((morehugs)))))

 

[Specsy]

Thanks Beanie, yes I was terrified, and to be honest I was not prepared for something like that. However Bella was literally only just starting to improve ever so slightly, and this has really made her worse than what she was before. I will see how it goes but right now, I am terrible frustrated and upset. I love this dog so **** much and I just wish I could have been more intelligent and knowledgable when I got her. Even though I am not sure what I could have done differently as I think I did socialising right, but still I feel like I let my best friend down and just saying this right nowhas brought me to tears again. I am unreasonably emotional.

 

[Beanie]

Oh hon, you didn't let her down. I know how hard it is to stop those feelings from creeping in, but this isn't your fault. Take a break, formulate a new plan, and see where it goes from there. Sometimes dogs are far more resilient than we think and she may bounce back from this setback faster than you would expect.
And if she never gets over it... as much as it may suck, that is the dog you have, and it won't change how much you love her. And ultimately THAT is what's really important to her... the bond you guys have. Everything else is just fluff.

 

[SaraB]

It is so very frustrating. Classic is this dog for me. He was my first show dog, I socialized him more than I ever thought possible but for some reason he turned into the human aggressive beast he is today. Set backs suck, we have had many over the past 2 years. Just remember that progress cannot be made without those set backs for you and Bella to learn from.

Good luck, keep working at it.

 

[Specsy]

Thank you all for your encouraging comments, SaraB, I do love her, and she loves me and yes at the end of the day it IS all that counts. Would be a lot easier though if it wasn't this bad. It seems that after the incident, she has suddenly become reactive to certain people. Now I have to watch that reactivity does not turn into aggression. I just don't know where I went wrong with this girl.

 

[AliciaD]

Big hugs!

I'm so sorry! It seems like dog-aggression and reactivity is becoming a disease, more and more dogs are passing it on to each other. It's so horrible to know you worked so hard but got screwed over like this. I hope Bella can start to recover again, and I hope it moves along faster this time around.

 

[Maxy24]

You might not have done anything wrong at all, you can't change genes. Don't loose hope yet though. I know whenever we have someone over or someone knocks on the door Tucker because SUPER reactive for the rest of the day and sometimes the next. Like if we put a cup down on the table and it makes a noise he'll start flipping out, If I walk in with sunglasses on he'll freak out, if he sees someone out the window he'll bark, he'll bark if the door opens before he sees who it is. Basically everything he's got better with will be wrecked for a little bit because he's paranoid because someone threw him over threshold. But after a day or two he's back to his normal level of reactivity again. So hopefully Bella will calm down too.


I do know how you feel though, it's so discouraging. The reason I really wanted a dog was the whole aspect of bringing them places. The nursing home, dog friendly events, the 4th of July parade, the Boston marathon, parks, my mom's after school program that I bring all my other creatures to, etc. To me that's what makes dogs more enjoyable than cats. But that's not possible, even when I brought him to a park with a high dog population to let him play with dogs (he likes them) I panicked twice because people would sometimes try and grab or pick up their dogs while they were playing with Tucker and I could just picture him biting them for reaching near him (luckily this didn't happen). It's just hard.

 

[thehoundgirl]

I am not going to flame you but I am not going to sugar-coat it either. Dog aggression is just a part of some dogs. While her getting attacked could have triggered it, you can only manage dog aggression as best as you can.

It's really not all that hard to manage, if you have to crate and rotate then do it. Don't leave her unsupervised with your other dogs. Keep her out of situations that would set her up to fail. Don't take her to dog parks or dog daycares now that you knowingly know she is dog aggressive.

There is nothing wrong with a dog being dog aggressive, it just happens in some breeds more than others. Even if you socialize a dog with other dogs as pups, they can still be dog aggressive. All you can do is manage it, you didn't do anything wrong with her training but now it is up to you to manage it.

I have a dog aggressive coonhound, he has gotten crankier as he is getting older and less tolerant of other dogs but is fine with our house dogs.

I have multiple dogs, but I don't expect them to live peacefully forever while that would be nice; you just have to step up your game and make sure she doesn't get into heavy dog situations meaning no dog parks or dog daycares and make sure to never leave her alone with your other dogs. It may be hard to accept for you, but dog aggression is more common than you think.

 

[Specsy]

Bella is not aggressive with the dogs in the yard. They interact fine unsupervised, and always have. Although when we got back home to the gate she let out a few growls, when we got back in she was normal around the others again.

Bella was dog aggressive BEFORE this incident. On leash mostly. I have had her interact with other dogs away from her comfort zone but in THEIR comfort zone, and it went ok. It is when we are in a neutral zone off leash or on leash that we have problems. I will never take her to dog parks, and really never have taken her to a dog park except when she was a young pup before we had aggression issues. She will never go to doggy day care etc. She stays at home most of the time, except when I take her on drives with me where neither I nor her need to jump out the car.

It was more a thing of what Maxy24 said. It would be so much nicer if she could come everywhere with me. I know it isn't possible and I know I may never get it right but I always had that little glimmer of hope.

I leave Bella unsupervised with the other dogs she is the smallest and chances are she will back down if there is ever a fight, and there has not been a fight involving her as she mostly keeps to herself or plays with Leo.

This incident was frustrating because I was JUST starting to improve with Bella's aggression on walks towards dogs fenced in their yard and this incident has just brought us back to square 1, if not, taken us to -1 square one.

 

[monkeys23]

You need to stop trying to "fix" her.

Honestly it sounds like she feels like she is the leader of the two of you and needs to take matters into her own hands.

There is no reason you can't teach her to ignore other dogs on walks. Stick with it. She'll always be DA, but she knows YOU have things handled she can relax and walk.

Example, my friend's Lab/Rhodie mix HATES pugs, as well as most small dogs and anything bully/bulldog. I don't really blame him, pugs freak me out too (no offense pug people!). But he knows I am in charge and I can walk him next to a chain link fence with two pugs going nuts on just a flat collar and all I have to say is "ignore it" quietly. He also lets me handle it when we get charged by loose aggressive dogs... unless they don't respond to yelling and stuff... then he'll back me up and be like yo listen to her and get the f away from us!

Same with judging creepy people. None of the dogs alerts on just anyone, but if they do pay attention. Rottweilers want to guard and if she doesn't respect your leadership and get provided with proper work outlets she will make her own "work" and you might not like it. They are awesome dogs, but they sure aren't for everyone. Lynley will tolerate pets from people he doesn't like in public because he knows we've got things handled. Example, my friend and I went to a coffee shop with Lynley and Lily once a few years back... two obviously meth head creepers decided to stop and hit on us because creepers love the big manly boy dog.
Lynley was a perfect canine good citizen, but it was obvious he did not like them to us. They weren't interested in Lily at all and didn't try to pet her.

He is not as well behaved for his owner as he is for me. Because he is well aware she is a pushover.

Strong dogs require strong leaders.

Learn how to properly fit/use a prong collar and couple it with positive reinforcement.

IMO its very naive to leave a pack of Rottweilers unattended together. Someday you are probably going to come home to something real ugly.... they aren't pack dogs, they are big strong working dogs that often are dog aggressive. It is not a fault! Find another breed if you want a big pack you can leave unattended and not worry about muching stangers dogs or people they find sketchy.

 

[Specsy]

Prong collars are illegal in South Africa so that is not going to happen. Also I don't believe in using them anyway. A normal choke collar is as far as I would go.

I have properly raised other Rottweilers, and Bella is the only problem. She is the same with any body who handles her, even the sternest Rottweiler people who have trained Rottweilers for at least 30 years. I have been to a breed club so everyone who is anyone in the Rottweiler world in my area has handled Bella. So it isn't actually a problem with my handling. Although this was questioned before by even trainers in my area until they handled Bella themselves.

My Rottweilers have lived together in a pack since they were together. From the word go, and honestly it is always going to be that way. There is ALWAYS at least ONE person at home. So there could never be such a serious fight they kill each other, as there is always a person to intervene. Frankly there has not been a fight ever neither. ALL except 1 of the dogs are spayed/neutered so I don't have to worry about pregnancies either.

I am not sure what it is about people who "know" dogs that are so against keeping dogs in packs, seriously I have done it all my life, no dead dogs, no dogs going to the vet for serious injuries etc. My family's very first Rottweiler lived in harmony with a TINY poodle/terrier mix for his entire life.

Rottweilers are not terrible creatures and I will not treat them as such. If you believe they are then you have met the wrong Rottweilers. They are really good family dogs. Anybody who says otherwise has an unsocialised dog or a dog from really bad lines.

Bella is GREAT with people. ALWAYS. She doesn't like STRANGE dogs, she is FINE with the dogs at home. They will still be left together. I don't believe in confining my dogs in crates the whole day, sorry.

 

[AliciaD]

Prong collars are illegal in South Africa so that is not going to happen. Also I don't believe in using them anyway. A normal choke collar is as far as I would go.

I also don't think a prong collar would be useful in this case. I think it could very well exacerbate the problem. There is a lot of debate/studies flying around about how leash reactive dogs trained with prongs tend to get worse before/if they get better. I would understand if Specsy was unable to physically control her dog (like if Specsy was elderly or had a hand injury) but even then I would say that there are other options and precautions you can use, and I've seen sometimes whose reactions are so bad/intense that they push through the pain of the prong.

If Specsy is being honest and someone is always home, I don't see anything wrong with letting the pack mingle. Maybe Bella would appreciate some alone time but it's impossible for me to know that from a couple of posts.

Just my thoughts,

 

[thehoundgirl]

Monkeys was not saying they are horrible LOL. Infact I know she loves them, as do I. I had a mix for 10 and a half years and she was the best dog ever and my heart dog.

Monkeys was just stating these dogs CAN be dog aggressive and most of them are and any dog can be but some are more than others. Yes, they are AMAZING family dogs with *people* but they don't need other dogs in their "pack" to thrive. They are working dogs and depend on their owner to thrive.

You cannot be a pushover with these dogs. They are strong dogs, therefore they need a strong leader. A prong can be a valuable tool, when used properly. Choke chains can actually do a lot more damage than a prong. If you want a strong collar, get a collar from Stillwater. They are for working dogs. Stillwater Kennel Supply --

And I am sorry but some breeds are NOT meant to be in a pack with other dogs. To some breeds, YOU are the only "pack" they need, not other dog "buddies". And you cannot expect them to get along forever, you must be prepared for them one day to hate each other it may not happen, but it's better to be prepared than not to. That's all we are trying to say.

 

[RBark]

EDIT: What the... a post I made went to an entirely different thread.

 

[thehoundgirl]

It's probably the forum glitches..

 

[scox1313]

i wrote this thread after a previous one about the same topic disappeared from the forum. next time i checked, they were both gone. then i looked and the first one was back, was replied to and now i look and it is gone and this one has reappeared. what is going on?


EDIT: this isn't the thread i was replying to.

EDIT AGAIN: now the first message is back and the one i was replying to disappeared.