Just curious, how many of you believe in a higher power?

[M&M's Mommy]

But I've already read portions of the bible. Not the whole thing granted but a good bit. I've already drawn my conclusions from it, which is why I'm now an Atheist.

GO, I'm not sure how to response... so i'm going to share some of the famous quotes about the Bible

"Reading the Bible without meditating on it is like trying to eat without swallowing. -Anonymous

"It is clear that there must be difficulties for us in a revelation such as the Bible. If someone were to hand me a book that was as simple to me as the multiplication table, and say, 'This is the Word of God. In it He has revealed His whole will and wisdom,' I would shake my head and say, 'I cannot believe it; that is too easy to be a perfect revelation of infinite wisdom.' There must be, in any complete revelation of God's mind and will and character and being, things hard for the beginner to understand; and the wisest and best of us are but beginners. --R.A. Torrey

"No one ever graduates from BIBLE study until he meets the Author face to face" - Everett T. Harris

""The Scriptures teach us the best way of living, the noblest way of suffering, and the most comfortable way of dying" -John Flavel

"What you bring away from the Bible depends to some extent on what you carry to it." - Oliver Wendell Holmes

 

[Phoenixangelwyngs]

1. That each and every person is unique and to be respected.
2. That all people should be treated equally.
3. That our churches are places where everyone is accepted and where we learn together.
4. That every person is free to search for truth and meaning.
5. That all people have the right to think for themselves and vote on issues that concern them.
6. That we must work for a world in which there is peace, fairness and freedom.
7. That we should respect and care for all parts of our planet Earth.

See.... this is why the UU is pretty much the only organized group that I can stand to be around. Worship some stone in your backyard, believe in Buddha, or Allah or Jesus.... and it's all good. No one argues over who's going to hell because of the wrong set of beliefs.

Yeah..... UU ROCKS!.... or JESUS'! or BUDDHAS! or.... oh nevermind.

 

[Nechochwen]

No no no you misunderstand me, though admittedly the statement wasn't the best written one and it does read in that way.

No, the Bible only helped in my decision. There are other factors. Mainly reasoning, but also some literary works, observations, and conclusions drawn from extraneous sources.

For example, Plato, in The Republic, made the remark that religion is extremely useful for population control. He's entirely correct. Why would the plebians be content to their lot in life when the lords 'above' them have so much more than they do? Why, just promise them a glorious after life if they're good. Not in those exact words, and he stated it a lot more elegantly, but that's the gist of it.


Only one example, there's more. It's not just the Bible.



It's not like becoming an Atheist was a night and day decision for me. I put a lot of thought into it. I didn't want to admit that I was an atheist at heart. It was very hard to go against everything I'd been taught my entire life but I found more reasons to NOT believe in god than I did to believe in him. Sure, it'd been drilled in my head all my life about a grand after life and his mysterious ways and how we could never fully understand him. But after thinking about it for about a year I finally decided the whole thing just didn't make any sense and it was much more logical and likely that the whole thing is a sham.

One of the reasons is listed above. It is the ultimate form of crowd control and making sure those without hope stay content. Give them hope, false or not. They don't know it's false.

I'm with GO. I was raised in a christian home, going to church every sunday as a kid. It never really sat well with me, but I continued to go as I didn't really have a choice in the matter. I read a fair amount of the bible, and after a few years of not really believing and having my doubts, I was learning more and more about science on my own outside of school, and some in school. The more I learned, the less I felt that any god was real or even could be. I had been taught that god is outside of time, that he always was and always will be. That he knows exactly what we're going to do with our lives before we're even born.....basically everything I had ever been taught about god just didn't sit right with me when I really thought about it. Nothing made sense, nothing fit right with everything else. But when I thought about everything from a scientific point of view, everything does make sense.

And prayer... that entire concept is just flawed. You can pray to your god with anything, and you'll accept the answer no matter with of the three possible outcomes happens as God's will. Let's say you have a friend that is in need of some money, so you pray that something will happen to help out your friend so he can pay off his debts. If your friend ends up going broke and losing everything, it'll be attributed to god's will, it's what he wanted to happen. Your friend was a good person, so you don't know why God wanted this to happen, but whatever, God knows best. Your prayer was answered with a "No". If your friend is scraping by, just barely with enough to live on but not enough to pay off his debts when he wins a contest and gets a couple thousand dollars. Good! Your prayer was answered with a "Yes". Or, your friend continues to live scraping by and racking up more and more debt. Your prayer got answered with a "Wait, it's not time yet". Basically, no matter what you pray and what the outcome is. God can't lose. You will attribute anything that happens, no matter what it is, to it being his will, regardless to what would have happened anyway had you not prayed.

 

[jess2416]

and just who is "you"

not all Christians are the same nor do we think the same, so dont lump me in with people that I do not share the same beliefs with...

Christian does NOT equal everyone has the same beliefs and if you knew what you were talking about you would know that

 

[sparks19]

One thing I want to say is that I hate it when people assume that I dont believe in God just because I don't believe in the bible at all. And I don't believe in hell either. That does NOT mean that I dont believe in God.

There are too many miracles that happen and coincidences that happen for me to NOT believe in a God. I've always believed in God, for as long as I can remember. As the years go by and certain things happen, my belief gets stronger.

For example. My father was dieing of cancer. I lived with a friend at the time, because I refused to sit and watch my dad die. For some odd reason, one night right out of the blue, I told my friend to take me to my dads house, because I need to see him. I hadn't seen him in almost a month. I got there at 9 pm... he died at 3 am that very night. I thank God every day that I got to say good bye to my father before he died. He died 3 months earlier than the docs said he would. He was fighting off death with all he had in him just to see me one more time. He would fall asleep and wake up gasping for air.

Just shear coincidence that I felt a need to drop by the very same night he died, after a month avoiding him? I think not.

I don't think that at all.

I am so happy that you were able to be there to say goodbye.

I know my grandmother held on for an hour before my mom got there. We lived an hour away and my grandmother had been suffering from Cancer for two years. when the hospital called and said this was it and they weren't sure she would make it in time. My mom rushed in at 3 am. her 3 brothers were already there and her mom was really struggling. I wasn't there but I trust my mom implicity... the minute she walked in the door my grand mother looked at her, said "I love you" and drew her very last breath.

People can say whatEVER they want to try to dissuade me from my belief (even t hough SOME of them get pissy because we mention God but have no issue with telling us how illogical and foolish we are... lol that makes sense right? NOT) but I have witnessed too much to believe otherwise and while I may get riled up sometimes... deep down... I don't care what others think of me. My faith is strong and NO ONE can take that from me... or you... or anyone else.

 

[sparks19]

maybe it's just me... but I have noticed a trend on this forum....

FOR the most part (not everyone but a majority) people who were raised with RELIGION (not to be confused with FAITH) and had it forced on them are less likely to believe. I don't know if it is spite or just because they had reason to go look elsewhere and found that they just didn't believe... just as I was NOT raised with faith and was inspired to look elsewhere and found the opposite.

BUT... I am NOT forcing my belief on anyone. PLEASE... STOP telling me I am illogical because I have Faith. Just because you were raised with it and felt the need to look elsewhere does not make mine or any other persons belief less than YOURS.

Can you prove that God doesn't exsist and that we are foolish? OH I didn't think so. YOU like to throw in our faces that we can't "prove" he exsists. The same can be said for the other side.

I said it once and I will say it again a million times over... SCIENCE does NOT disprove God exsists. Just because you can figure out how God worked the system of a creature or plant or solar system does not mean he doesn't exsist... you just figure out how he wired it. there is a lot that science hasn't proven yet and I am confident that when they prove "IT" it will not actually disprove God. When Science can disprove THAT without a shadow of a doubt... I will listen. but until then your belief is just as "frivolous" as mine

 

[Nechochwen]

I said it once and I will say it again a million times over... SCIENCE does NOT disprove God exsists. Just because you can figure out how God worked the system of a creature or plant or solar system does not mean he doesn't exsist... you just figure out how he wired it. there is a lot that science hasn't proven yet and I am confident that when they prove "IT" it will not actually disprove God. When Science can disprove THAT without a shadow of a doubt... I will listen. but until then your belief is just as "frivolous" as mine

I've said many times in this thread that science can not prove or disprove the existence of God. It is this very fact that drives all science away from god as an explanation. Either it's "God said "let there be light" and the sun burst forth into existence at the will of god, or "A bunch of gases collected into a giant ball that is now powering our solar system". You can use either one as an explanation, but seeing as there isn't any evidence in favor of or contradictory to God's existence, we'll have to assume he has nothing to do with anything and figure out how things work.

Also, I don't know what you mean when you say my 'belief'. I don't 'believe' in science, I know in it. I can test it, and make sure it works. I've tried to get god to light the tree next to me on fire, or make a bolt of lightening appear from a cloudless sunny sky, but to date nothing as happened when I prayed to God to ignite said tree or create said lightening bolt.

 

[sparks19]

I've said many times in this thread that science can not prove or disprove the existence of God. It is this very fact that drives all science away from god as an explanation. Either it's "God said "let there be light" and the sun burst forth into existence at the will of god, or "A bunch of gases collected into a giant ball that is now powering our solar system". You can use either one as an explanation, but seeing as there isn't any evidence in favor of or contradictory to God's existence, we'll have to assume he has nothing to do with anything and figure out how things work.

Also, I don't know what you mean when you say my 'belief'. I don't 'believe' in science, I know in it. I can test it, and make sure it works. I've tried to get god to light the tree next to me on fire, or make a bolt of lightening appear from a cloudless sunny sky, but to date nothing as happened when I prayed to God to ignite said tree or create said lightening bolt.

that's because God isnt' there to entertain you. He's not there to provide your every whim and desire. I find it rather egotistical of you to believe that YOU can just request whatever you want of God. Sorry he isn't a clown to entertain at your birthday party.

You can see what science has proven so far... no not faith persay... but many people are using the little that science has proven (little in respect to everything there is for science to still learn... we have only a drop in the bucket) to determine that I am wrong.

You can cling to science all you want... but in return I will cling to my God.

I will not EVER believe that SCIENCE was the contributing factor to all the unknowns about my daughter before she was even born... I don't believe in "coincidence" ... especially 6+ "coincidences" within a matter of two days that changed mine and my daughters life.

Again... people can give me all the scientific studies they want... but NOTHING they have will prove or disprove God. It will not prove that the Dr;s KNEW before hand what would happen to my little girl. that's all the evidence I need. People who haven't experienced "God's Voice" can say there is no evidence... but I have experienced what I have experienced and no one is going to convince me otherwise. that's all the proof I need

I am not going to try to change your view.... mine will NOT change so don't bother trying to change mine Only I know (and my husband knows in the case of our daughter) what has happened to me/us and what I/we have experienced.

But many (not all) believe that the "evidence" that science has about evolution (even th ough it's not complete nor is the big bang theory unless we are talking about porn) is proof that there is no God. to me that is nothing more than belief because there is no PROOF. THAT's what I mean by belief.

 

[ihartgonzo]

Would not a modern bible be the opposite of broadening one's mind? If what I think you're talking about is a bible that puts the bible into modern terminology (much like a modern Romeo and Juliet, without the Shakespearean language) I would think that would take much of the interpretation away when they tell you exactly what it means.

Or what they think it means, rather than what you may think it means.

There are lots of ways to interpret the Bible... literally, symbolically, morally. Personally, I read it in a symbolic way, in order to apply it to my own life. Things have changed, in 2000 years. I totally agree, though, that it's much more meaningful to be able to interpret the Bible for yourself.

I don't really understand the whole issue about abandoning the Old Testament...

the 10 commandments are in the Old Testament, which basically founded Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. To abandon that is to abandon the widely accepted moral codes of not only those fundamental religions, but for the most part, of civilized society in general.

 

[ihartgonzo]

I've said many times in this thread that science can not prove or disprove the existence of God. It is this very fact that drives all science away from god as an explanation. Either it's "God said "let there be light" and the sun burst forth into existence at the will of god, or "A bunch of gases collected into a giant ball that is now powering our solar system". You can use either one as an explanation, but seeing as there isn't any evidence in favor of or contradictory to God's existence, we'll have to assume he has nothing to do with anything and figure out how things work.

But, how do you KNOW that God didn't create those gases, and collect them into a giant ball?

Lol.

I know, I know... it's a futile arguement. It will nevereverever end. ;3

 

[Squishy22]

I don't think that at all.

I am so happy that you were able to be there to say goodbye.

I know my grandmother held on for an hour before my mom got there. We lived an hour away and my grandmother had been suffering from Cancer for two years. when the hospital called and said this was it and they weren't sure she would make it in time. My mom rushed in at 3 am. her 3 brothers were already there and her mom was really struggling. I wasn't there but I trust my mom implicity... the minute she walked in the door my grand mother looked at her, said "I love you" and drew her very last breath.

People can say whatEVER they want to try to dissuade me from my belief (even t hough SOME of them get pissy because we mention God but have no issue with telling us how illogical and foolish we are... lol that makes sense right? NOT) but I have witnessed too much to believe otherwise and while I may get riled up sometimes... deep down... I don't care what others think of me. My faith is strong and NO ONE can take that from me... or you... or anyone else.

Cancer is not fun. My dad was just fine, went to the doc for a chest cold, and then was given six months to live after they found numerous tumors throughout his entire chest cavity. He only made it 3 months. He was 43.

The really weird thing is that weeks before he was diagnosed with lung cancer I sat down with him and my mom and had a heart to heart conversation about their smoking habits. While in tears I asked him if he wanted to live long enough to see his grandkids, and thats when he promised to quit, but it was too late. 2 month after his death, I found out I was prego with Madison. In a way, I think I sensed what was going to happen.

Your story makes me teary eyed. I agree with your last paragraph...

 

[Nechochwen]

But, how do you KNOW that God didn't create those gases, and collect them into a giant ball?

Lol.

I know, I know... it's a futile arguement. It will nevereverever end. ;3

How do you KNOW that god had a hand in it?

 

[ACooper]

But, how do you KNOW that God didn't create those gases, and collect them into a giant ball?

Lol.

I know, I know... it's a futile arguement. It will nevereverever end. ;3

How do you KNOW that god had a hand in it?

I was going to make a similar comment gonzo, LOL

How does one know that God himself isn't a version of what we consider a scientist? Some seem to think that God pulled out his magic wand and waved it around............perhaps it wasn't like that AT ALL It could have been God and his group of fellow "scientists" that got the whole thing started, sort of like a kid starting up an ant farm on a very large scale!

 

[SharkBait]

I'm a Christian, not a perfect one, but one all the same.
I would question a lot of things, and like many here think 'well he's certainly not a merciful god if all this pain and suffering happens in the world' but after doing some research, I'm beginning to understand it all. And i definitely turn to God very often in times of despair, trouble and good times too.

What i can't understand is that some people think God and science (evoloution and such) can't go hand in hand. God is the scientist in this case, what's wrong with that?

 

[Lilavati]

I was going to make a similar comment gonzo, LOL

How does one know that God himself isn't a version of what we consider a scientist? Some seem to think that God pulled out his magic wand and waved it around............perhaps it wasn't like that AT ALL It could have been God and his group of fellow "scientists" that got the whole thing started, sort of like a kid starting up an ant farm on a very large scale!

That tends to be my view, AC, that God is such a marvelous creator that he created an infinately complex universe capable of developing intelligent life. To me that is much more amazing than waving a wand . . . it might not be as "supernaturally" impressive, but its far more intellectually impressive. Its "harder" in a sense. I'm not a deist, I think God does interfere occasionally, just not in a way we can prove one way or the other, but by and large his creation runs itself.

That aside, this science/religion arguement pretty . . . well . . . silly. No one KNOWS what happened, because no one was there (And even if they were, eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable!).

However, the round goes to science. Science has accumliated vast ammounts of information regarding, say, the formation of the sun, how it was likely to have happened, how it functions, and have observed other stars forming elsewhere. Science has volumes of evidence showing that the sun formed by these mechanisms. Not all things are answered of course, but the evidence is very strong. Religion has some old stories saying God made the sun and placed it in the sky.

Science wins this round, IF you view it as a contest for literal truth. If you are wiling to accept the religious text as allagory, if your faith doesn't hinge on the literal truth of the religious text, then there's no problem. God made the universe, and therefore the sun, and our ancestors told the story in that way . . . the basic meaning, that we should be grateful to God for the sun doesn't change. If your faith does hinge on literal truth, then there is a serious problem . . . but I ask you . . . should your understanding of God and the universe be solely controlled by a 2000 to 4000+ year-old text? This is not to disparage the Bible, but its not the most modern source of information, so to speak. Timeless wisdom it has . . . but it wasn't intended as a treatise on science.

 

[SharkBait]

no 'burning lake of fire' after all

I do not believe in a hell. Scare tactic to keep people in line. Scare tactic to impose your morals on others.

That's how i feel aswell. Infact i was talking about that the other day with someone quite knowledgable about it all.
He said that back in the day, poor peoples' bodies where basically thrown into a communal pit (as they couldn't afford separate graves) and the pit was always alight in order to burn the bodies and so new ones could be placed in them.
The churches needed some way to attract people to Christianity in order to save them, so described Hell as a 'burning pit/lake of fire' ....obviously this imagery from the poor peoples' grave.

I, however, believe that if a person is not accepted into Heaven for whatever reason, they do not pay for their wrong doings for eternity, but simply are not given eternal life, they are just dead...dormant...not existing anymore type thing...
How do other Christians feel about this?

 

[eddieq]

I've watched this go back and forth quite a bit. For people who don't believe in a higher power, they don't understand how someone could believe. For people who do believe, they don't understand how people cannot believe. At some point both sides need to agree to disagree.

I am a Christian. I believe that God created the universe. How he did it, I don't know. I wasn't there. It seems very logical to me that he would do the creation via setting things in motion and using evolutionary processes to do so. Again, I wasn't there and neither were any scientists. We won't be able to prove how it happened. Even with massive scientific findings, it's still a best guess (although a well educated guess at that). Either way, I know in my heart that God had a hand in it.

I believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God. It does not contradict itself. People will jump all over me and say "what about where it says this and then later it says that". I won't take the bait on that. Take it all in context and understand that differences between two accounts of the same event is normal, as you add the perspective of each author. Both Old and New Testaments are valid.

Nechochwen has stated a couple of times that he doesn't "believe" in science, that he just knows. That is an excellent point. I don't believe in God, I just know that God exists and has a hand in my life and in every life, even for those that don't believe in him.

I know whom I have believed. It is in the Lord God and his Son, Jesus Christ.

 

[skittledoo]

I hesitated to even write in this thread because religious debates always make my head spin a few times over. Honestly... I've been back and forth in my views for years. I've found that for me though, believing in a God makes me feel a lot better about my life. It gives me sort of purpose if you will. That doesn't mean that believing in God will do the same for another, but it works for me. I'm never going to be the type of Christian who tries to press their ways onto others. When I grew up there were some "Christians" who did that to me and to be honest... I couldn't stand them for a long time because of that very reason.

I had to come to God on my own without the pressure from other people. I had to decide in my own heart whether or not to believe in a God. I had to decide in my own heart who God was to me. It wasn't until people FINALLY stopped trying to pressure me about it that I decided on my own to look more into the idea of God, etc etc. I don't go to church every Sunday. I don't read my Bible as much as I'd maybe like to. I don't pray all the time. I'm not perfect... I screw up all the time but I'm human.

For me, I feel like I'm much more closer to God when I do things for others whether it be helping someone with something, caring for people in need, helping out at animal shelters etc etc

 

[a.baker]

With science things that are proven "fact" later become false so they have to constantly change and revise. The bible needs no revision. It all intertwines within itself, nothing was left out and it holds true to the test.

The OT is still acknowledged. Well for example the story about David and Goliath or the Ten Commandments or Adam and Eve. If man wrote the bible than there would be error and than have to be revised. God just worked through man so it is God talking to us even though man just held the pen. And God does still work through people today.

When it comes to perfection I think some get it misunderstood. We must remember that God is a just God and jealousy doesn't make Him imperfect. It would not be good if God let people spit in His face while he just sits there and takes it with a smile on His face. Because it would chaos if thats how it was. A big part of His perfection is His justice. And God doesn't see it as just either if one does wrong to us and we just sit there and do nothing. Big reason why we have a justice system on earth is because it is justified for there to be justice. Even though He has a huge amount of grace and patience and He is slow to anger there still comes a point.

I never had religion shoved down my throat either and I am a very strong believer. I always believed but just got to know Him a year ago because I read my bible. The "only believe" thing got me into lots of trouble. Reading the bible got me out of trouble.

I believe God is as real and living as the five fingers on my hand. He is our ultimate healer and there is scientific evidence when one believes in God what effect that physically has on their body for example when it comes to healing faster. They have also found and discovered many things on earth as well, same as they have discovered dinosaur bones.

It was once said that in order for one to come and totally line up with the OT to be what Jesus was and who He was and how He came about. Would be like covering the state of Texas with half dollars 2 feet deep and having a chosen half dollar, try to pick out the right chosen one. So statistically....

God doesn't make their be pain; but He does allow it. In fact many people find God when they have pain or bad things happen. And many people make their own conflicts and reap their own consequences. Sometimes things happen that don't seem fair. But God will be there to help you get through it if you call on Him and have faith.

See one must have faith. Some people want all the answers so it would rule out faith. But it doesn't work like that.

Now here's my story since we were sharing I thought why not share mine. You can choose to believe my story or not because it would be hard for science to really prove other than there must of been some sort of higher power in control.

I was about 6 and I was at my friends house across the street. I knew to look for cars before I crossed the road but being a little kid well I just forgot this time. This road was a 55mph country road so not very busy but people drove fast.

I crossed the road without looking and I was half way across and I heard honking and tires squealing. I looked and saw a gold car right there and it was driving on its two same sided tires and I was still sitting on my bike just starring at the whole under neath of the car as it was driving over me. I didn't see or notice the car until it was driving over me.

The car went on like this for about I don't know 30 more feet or so swerved again and landed back on all four tires and kept driving. My mom didn't see it but mothers instinct heard the tires and honking and knew I was on my way home; she thought I did get hit by a car. When she came out and saw me finishing crossing the road and I was o.k. she was so scared and mad at me she gave me a spanking. LOL I remember to look for cars every time after that.

So to me something was there and lifted that car on its side because I would of been hit and killed for sure and who knows what would of happened to that driver. If they would of went off the road when they swerved they would crashed into a tree since there was no shoulder and the whole side of the road was lined with a forest of trees. I feel God was watching out for the both of us.

 

[a.baker]

Yes no one is perfect and God doesn't expect us to be. He just wants us to heartfully try.
hugs