Just curious, how many of you believe in a higher power?
- Thread starter Nechochwen
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I can assure you that the Old Testaments are NOT abandoned! 
Jesus also said so himself, "Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Mt. 5:18).
Nevertheless, Jesus did change the law. For example in Deuteronomy 19:21 it says: "Do not look on such a man with pity. Life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, and foot for foot! ". But Jesus says in Matt 5:38-39: ""You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well." The Law of the Gospel (New Testaments) fulfills, refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law (Old Testaments) to its perfection... Thus we are bound to the old Jewish Law of Moses only to the extent it has been confirmed, ratified, and restated by Christ.
Jesus also said so himself, "Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Mt. 5:18).
Nevertheless, Jesus did change the law. For example in Deuteronomy 19:21 it says: "Do not look on such a man with pity. Life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, and foot for foot! ". But Jesus says in Matt 5:38-39: ""You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' But I say to you, offer no resistance to one who is evil. When someone strikes you on (your) right cheek, turn the other one to him as well." The Law of the Gospel (New Testaments) fulfills, refines, surpasses, and leads the Old Law (Old Testaments) to its perfection... Thus we are bound to the old Jewish Law of Moses only to the extent it has been confirmed, ratified, and restated by Christ.
Essentially, to my understanding in the church I grew up in, and I know it varies from denomination to denomination, but I think this is the standard explaination, is that much of the Old Testiment was superceded by the New Testiment, particularly the laws. The Old Testiment was not so much abandoned as rendered outdated by the New Testiment. Large parts of it, such as prophecies, moral teachings, etc, are still valid though . . . anyway, that's the theological explaination I was given. Basically the coming of Christ rendered all those rules superfulous.
Honestly, this always struck me as strange, but many things about the way religions develop are. From a history of religion standpoint, rather than a theological one, I do know the answer. In Early Christianity, there were two problems. How to convert pagans and how to distinguish themselves from Jews. Abandoning the Jewish law (by saying the coming of Christ overruled it) accomplished both laws. There's a fair ammount about this in the Early Christian texts . . . and its pretty clear what was going on. There was in fact serious consideration given to tossing the Old Testiment altogether, but it turned out that portions of the New Testiment, especially those that claim that Jesus was the Messiah, make no sense without the Old Testiment attached for reference.
Honestly, this always struck me as strange, but many things about the way religions develop are. From a history of religion standpoint, rather than a theological one, I do know the answer. In Early Christianity, there were two problems. How to convert pagans and how to distinguish themselves from Jews. Abandoning the Jewish law (by saying the coming of Christ overruled it) accomplished both laws. There's a fair ammount about this in the Early Christian texts . . . and its pretty clear what was going on. There was in fact serious consideration given to tossing the Old Testiment altogether, but it turned out that portions of the New Testiment, especially those that claim that Jesus was the Messiah, make no sense without the Old Testiment attached for reference.
First , thank you DrMom , that was most touching !! Second , GO , you have a good mind and you should broaden it . Get a ' modern bible ' , terms you'll understand , and read it . I was not brought up with religion drilled into me , but I've always been facinated and questioning my whole life . I even took a class in college . A good summer read for you !
Would not a modern bible be the opposite of broadening one's mind? If what I think you're talking about is a bible that puts the bible into modern terminology (much like a modern Romeo and Juliet, without the Shakespearean language) I would think that would take much of the interpretation away when they tell you exactly what it means.
Or what they think it means, rather than what you may think it means.
Or what they think it means, rather than what you may think it means.
Huh? I was pondering whether having a special bible that gives interpretations to passages would be the opposite of broadening your mind. You're having someone tell you what the passages mean. Sure you don't have to take the explanation as your own, but it would bias' your judgment.
Edit: However on further thought that's no different from a pastor.
Plus ya'll did say earlier that the problems with interpretations is that they're done by man.
Edit2: Of course the Bible itself has been written and re-written so many times already from the original Hebrew (think that was the original language) that what it says currently may not be what was actually meant the first time anyways.
Edit: However on further thought that's no different from a pastor.
Plus ya'll did say earlier that the problems with interpretations is that they're done by man.
Edit2: Of course the Bible itself has been written and re-written so many times already from the original Hebrew (think that was the original language) that what it says currently may not be what was actually meant the first time anyways.
Any translation gives you that set of problems, GO. The King James Version is one of the most politically motivated translations you can find.
The only way you get around the dilemma of interpretation vs. translation is to go back and read in the original languages
The only way you get around the dilemma of interpretation vs. translation is to go back and read in the original languages
it doesnt matter what anyone else gets out of the bible, its what YOU YOURSELF get from it...
What's interesting about this statement is that the Bible made you an athiest. Nothing wrong with being an athiest . . . but why should the Bible make you one . . . convince you not to be a Christian, or a Jew, as the case may be . . . but why would the Bible be proof of the non-existence of any sort of higher being?
This is sort of the same issue as being angry at God's followers rather than God . . . not believing the Bible vs. not beliving in God.
I'm not critizing, its just an observation . . . was it that you decided that all faith was superstion or that you did not agree with the Bible?
This is sort of the same issue as being angry at God's followers rather than God . . . not believing the Bible vs. not beliving in God.
I'm not critizing, its just an observation . . . was it that you decided that all faith was superstion or that you did not agree with the Bible?
I'm sure you're not the only one who doesn't feel the Old Testament pertains to them.
There might even be Christian denominations that take the same stance. I just don't know. It always is interesting to me when there are religious discussions that all Christians are lumped together in beliefs when I find the Christian denominations to be quite different from one another. Other than a belief in Christ, it's hard for me to say what 'all' Christians believe.
Whether or not it has any relgious meaning to them, many people enjoy the beauty of the Psalms and the love store in Song of Solomon.
Andy many of the religious find lessons on faith from stories of Abraham, Job, and Moses.
There might even be Christian denominations that take the same stance. I just don't know. It always is interesting to me when there are religious discussions that all Christians are lumped together in beliefs when I find the Christian denominations to be quite different from one another. Other than a belief in Christ, it's hard for me to say what 'all' Christians believe.
Whether or not it has any relgious meaning to them, many people enjoy the beauty of the Psalms and the love store in Song of Solomon.
Andy many of the religious find lessons on faith from stories of Abraham, Job, and Moses.
No no no you misunderstand me, though admittedly the statement wasn't the best written one and it does read in that way.
No, the Bible only helped in my decision. There are other factors. Mainly reasoning, but also some literary works, observations, and conclusions drawn from extraneous sources.
For example, Plato, in The Republic, made the remark that religion is extremely useful for population control. He's entirely correct. Why would the plebians be content to their lot in life when the lords 'above' them have so much more than they do? Why, just promise them a glorious after life if they're good. Not in those exact words, and he stated it a lot more elegantly, but that's the gist of it.
Only one example, there's more. It's not just the Bible.
It's not like becoming an Atheist was a night and day decision for me. I put a lot of thought into it. I didn't want to admit that I was an atheist at heart. It was very hard to go against everything I'd been taught my entire life but I found more reasons to NOT believe in god than I did to believe in him. Sure, it'd been drilled in my head all my life about a grand after life and his mysterious ways and how we could never fully understand him. But after thinking about it for about a year I finally decided the whole thing just didn't make any sense and it was much more logical and likely that the whole thing is a sham.
One of the reasons is listed above. It is the ultimate form of crowd control and making sure those without hope stay content. Give them hope, false or not. They don't know it's false.
No, the Bible only helped in my decision. There are other factors. Mainly reasoning, but also some literary works, observations, and conclusions drawn from extraneous sources.
For example, Plato, in The Republic, made the remark that religion is extremely useful for population control. He's entirely correct. Why would the plebians be content to their lot in life when the lords 'above' them have so much more than they do? Why, just promise them a glorious after life if they're good. Not in those exact words, and he stated it a lot more elegantly, but that's the gist of it.
Only one example, there's more. It's not just the Bible.
It's not like becoming an Atheist was a night and day decision for me. I put a lot of thought into it. I didn't want to admit that I was an atheist at heart. It was very hard to go against everything I'd been taught my entire life but I found more reasons to NOT believe in god than I did to believe in him. Sure, it'd been drilled in my head all my life about a grand after life and his mysterious ways and how we could never fully understand him. But after thinking about it for about a year I finally decided the whole thing just didn't make any sense and it was much more logical and likely that the whole thing is a sham.
One of the reasons is listed above. It is the ultimate form of crowd control and making sure those without hope stay content. Give them hope, false or not. They don't know it's false.
S
One thing I want to say is that I hate it when people assume that I dont believe in God just because I don't believe in the bible at all. And I don't believe in hell either. That does NOT mean that I dont believe in God.
There are too many miracles that happen and coincidences that happen for me to NOT believe in a God. I've always believed in God, for as long as I can remember. As the years go by and certain things happen, my belief gets stronger.
For example. My father was dieing of cancer. I lived with a friend at the time, because I refused to sit and watch my dad die. For some odd reason, one night right out of the blue, I told my friend to take me to my dads house, because I need to see him. I hadn't seen him in almost a month. I got there at 9 pm... he died at 3 am that very night. I thank God every day that I got to say good bye to my father before he died. He died 3 months earlier than the docs said he would. He was fighting off death with all he had in him just to see me one more time. He would fall asleep and wake up gasping for air.
Just shear coincidence that I felt a need to drop by the very same night he died, after a month avoiding him? I think not.
There are too many miracles that happen and coincidences that happen for me to NOT believe in a God. I've always believed in God, for as long as I can remember. As the years go by and certain things happen, my belief gets stronger.
For example. My father was dieing of cancer. I lived with a friend at the time, because I refused to sit and watch my dad die. For some odd reason, one night right out of the blue, I told my friend to take me to my dads house, because I need to see him. I hadn't seen him in almost a month. I got there at 9 pm... he died at 3 am that very night. I thank God every day that I got to say good bye to my father before he died. He died 3 months earlier than the docs said he would. He was fighting off death with all he had in him just to see me one more time. He would fall asleep and wake up gasping for air.
Just shear coincidence that I felt a need to drop by the very same night he died, after a month avoiding him? I think not.