I'm fed up!!!

[RobHedrick]

I started another thread like this one called "Potty Problem" awhile back - I decided to create this one because this is more than a potty problem, my new puppy hates me...

Normally I'm a very relaxed ("always calm") person, but this dog I got (see avatar) is a peeing nightmare!!! and I'm not so calm these days!

He's ('Oz' - the pup that hates me) an 18 week old male Black Lab, he has been abused before I got him (which is why I took him in). I've always been great with training dogs, and I believe in using positive reinforcement as a training method. But with this guy, after 4 weeks of urinating hell, I don't think my methods of training have any effect whatsoever on him.

I really need someone's help here, because this adorable pup is two seconds away from going to the ASPCA (pound) because I just don't know how to manage him at all (regardless of the dogs I've trained before)..

When I first got him I noticed he had quite a few accidents in the house; I overlooked most of them because they were mostly submissive urination from being abused so bad (he was scared of people)... But now after 4 weeks the pup fully trusts me, he knows there are nice and loving humans out there, so when he pees I'm 100% positive it's not submissive urination (especially judging by his body language). I honestly think he's marking his territory, but why all over himself?

For instance, about an hour ago I went into the kitchen to get something to eat, I returned to our den (my big bedroom) I go to sit at my desk and eat, and he just starts peeing right where he's sitting, he doesn't even bother to get up (*no he does not have a weak bladder - he holds it all night, and only pees during the day*), he just pees all over himself - It's like he enjoys it or something.. So I tell him: "No!" I take him outside, and if (and when) he 'goes potty' I praise him warmly. <– That has been the routine for 4 weeks straight, and the peeing is getting worse. I'm obviously not doing something right.

It's like he's taking his deep-routed problems he had with his last owner, and unleashing them on me (I know that's absurd to say, but it's how I feel) by peeing anywhere - it's almost spiteful.

To answer many peoples first question: 'I' am the Pack Leader, my dogs know and understand this. But on that note, does anyone think my pup's challenging my authority by peeing so much? (is that a crazy question?)

Can anyone help?

 

[JR0579]

But on that note, does anyone think my pup's challenging my authority by peeing so much? (is that a crazy question?)

Can anyone help?

Even if I can't help you, I can tell you that I disagree with the idea of him challenging your authority. First, he has no reason to do so. You have already established yourself as the boss. Second, for a dog that was abused, I don't think he can afford to get himself in trouble. That's just my opinion.
If he pees only in the morning, why don't you crate him for a couple of hours and then take him straight out ? Also, did you try limiting his access to water ? Just my 2 cents worth

Good luck

 

[Richard D.]

Dogs don't do things out of spite. It's really hard to say from a description on the Internet but maybe you are sending mixed messages by being at your wits end.

It might be time for a proffesional's help to get some perspective on the situation.

 

[Julie]

I really didn't read your other posts.
So sorry if you are repeating yourself.

But, Has your pup had a medical examination, and did you mention this problem to the vet?
It still could be a medical problem even if he can hold it and night.


As trying as this can be, I feel sure your pup is not doing this to make you mad or get back at you, or being spiteful.

Does your pup squat to pee? or is he just peeing while sitting down normally?

I think it is also important to clean pee areas with special cleaner. I think it might be called natures miracle.?? It helps remove all smells that dogs can smell and we can't. That might help some.

I am sorry you are having these problems but I hope you figure it out before you take him to the pound.

Best wishes

 

[Fran27]

Is he neutered? He might just be marking...

 

[taratippy]

Its frustrating I know but at 18 weeks he is still a baby and an abused baby at that. 4 weeks isnt really that long to house train a dog and its sounds like you are doing things the right way so far. Maybe taking him out more often, every hour or even less making sure he's actually goes and praise treat etc. It might be that he's picking up on your frustration and going back to the submissive peeing, so try to stay calm (I know its hard).

One thing no dog should be denied water and especially a young pup so please dont do that.

Keep on trying Im sure this dog will repay your kindness over and over again once he's learnt to trust you.

 

[JR0579]

One thing no dog should be denied water and especially a young pup so please dont do that.

When I said "limit" I meant "regulate" not "deny". I am not being defensive or anything. I am just clarifying what I meant. And actually, it was my breeder who advised me of that when my puppy was 4 months old and used to pee while playing. The key word being "while" not "after". He'd be carrying the ball in his mouth and running towards me and he'd just pee without even stopping.

 

[SummerRiot]

But, Has your pup had a medical examination, and did you mention this problem to the vet?
It still could be a medical problem even if he can hold it and night.

I second what Julie said! I'd wonder if something wasn't medically wrong with him first of all.

Also,

4 weeks isnt really that long to house train a dog and its sounds like you are doing things the right way so far

I agree with this as well. Riot isn't fully house trained yet and hes 5 months old. He only makes the minor accidents once in a while when I miss his silient "i need out signals" so its basically not his fault.

I thought for sure that Riot was getting worse when he was younger, but things do get better. you need to give this puppy the benefit of the doubt. Throwing him into the pound wont help solve his problem any sooner.
I think you should start thinking of your puppy as your adopted "child" - just because your child was misbehaving you wouldn't put them in a foster home..

I know the pup seems like a huge handful now, but you'll definately miss him later if you give up on him.

 

[showpug]

I had a dog that had urination problems just like what you are describing and he had very severe urinary tract infection secondary to bladder stones. Please take your dog to the vet, his problems sound very medical and not behavioral!! My dog was not even a year old when he suffered from the stones...

 

[Doberluv]

I agree with those who suspect a bladder problem. Please see a vet first of all.

I can tell you that I disagree with the idea of him challenging your authority. First, he has no reason to do so

I agree with Joyful Roy here. Punishing this or saying, "no" will tend to worsen the situation. What I suspect is that from the beginning, he was conditioned to do this because he was mistreated and he took the submissive role to an extreme. This is a submissive response and a way to acknowledge to you that he knows you are the strong one. This is what they do. Even though you are seeing a turn around, that he is trusting you more, this is a learned response. You will need to modify behavior to help him. He needs to build confidence in himself and you need to be very careful you don't make an issue of any kind out of this submissive urination OR out of his fearfulness, shyness or insecurity. You can inadvertantly reinforce this insecuritiy in him by making a big deal out of his feeling this way.

So, some confidence building games are helpful...tug of war, letting him win as long as he knows to "give" you the object on command. Praise him when he gives. There are other games for this purpose if you do a search online. Also, obedience practice, using fun, motivating and rewarding methods, making sessions short, cheerful, not serious but showing him what you mean and rewarding is a great way to build confidence. Learning some tricks is a good mind stimulator and that's a good way to build confidence.

If you don't save this dog, who will? Is there anyone who wants to adopt him who is more experienced with this type of thing? It may be that you are the one for him. You can get through this with a little help. Punishment has little use in teaching. Show him what you want and reward. Try not to react to his peeing. It perpetuates the situation. Take things more in stride, even though it's difficult, I know. Act like you're confident and he'll feed off of that. Everything is just great and fun. Don't fuss over him when he's being insecure. Get him checked by a vet. And I think things will get better as he matures.

 

[RobHedrick]

Even if I can't help you, I can tell you that I disagree with the idea of him challenging your authority. First, he has no reason to do so. You have already established yourself as the boss. Second, for a dog that was abused, I don't think he can afford to get himself in trouble. That's just my opinion.
If he pees only in the morning, why don't you crate him for a couple of hours and then take him straight out ? Also, did you try limiting his access to water ? Just my 2 cents worth

Good luck

Sorry I didn't explain well, let me try again:

He is in his crate trough-out the night - and he never goes potty in his crate. He just pees during the day..

 

[RobHedrick]

I really didn't read your other posts.
So sorry if you are repeating yourself.

But, Has your pup had a medical examination, and did you mention this problem to the vet?
It still could be a medical problem even if he can hold it and night.


As trying as this can be, I feel sure your pup is not doing this to make you mad or get back at you, or being spiteful.

Does your pup squat to pee? or is he just peeing while sitting down normally?

I think it is also important to clean pee areas with special cleaner. I think it might be called natures miracle.?? It helps remove all smells that dogs can smell and we can't. That might help some.

I am sorry you are having these problems but I hope you figure it out before you take him to the pound.

Best wishes

1) He hasn't had any medical exams from a vet yet - I can't afford it (but he seem really healthy, and I always give his shots on time and things)

2) He pees while he sits, stands, walks, runs. squats - he's a peeing machine

3) I have used special cleaners that supposedly break down urine, etc.. I read an article that said "2/3 water+1/3 vinegar = a great urine odor eliminator" (I've been using that for a few days - as it's much cheaper, and it seems to work really well)

4) I hope so too..

 

[RobHedrick]

Is he neutered? He might just be marking...

He's not neutered "yet" but hopefully soon.. I hope that will help.

 

[RobHedrick]

Its frustrating I know but at 18 weeks he is still a baby and an abused baby at that. 4 weeks isnt really that long to house train a dog and its sounds like you are doing things the right way so far. Maybe taking him out more often, every hour or even less making sure he's actually goes and praise treat etc. It might be that he's picking up on your frustration and going back to the submissive peeing, so try to stay calm (I know its hard).

One thing no dog should be denied water and especially a young pup so please dont do that.

Keep on trying Im sure this dog will repay your kindness over and over again once he's learnt to trust you.

I agree with you, I understand he is still a baby. It's just that no other dog I've raised had ever taken this ling to train (or has had this much troubler understanding it --- note he's a very smart fast-learnng puppy, with the exception of housebreaking).

 

[Saje]

I love vinegar. I'm such a fan of it. And baking soda. But I've been told that it only masks the odours for us and not our dogs who smell much better. Just something to think about. It's probably true.

I would recommend getting him checked out by a vet as well. If you've ever had a UTI (urinary tract infection) you know that you can sleep through the night (depending on the severity) but once you're up it's up. Of course I know people who've had it much more severe than that and couldn't even walk.

Anyway, for odd behaviour like that it's best to get it checked out before you start with any training methods that may be destined to fail.

 

[Julie]

1) He hasn't had any medical exams from a vet yet - I can't afford it (but he seem really healthy, and I always give his shots on time and things)

2) He pees while he sits, stands, walks, runs. squats - he's a peeing machine

3) I have used special cleaners that supposedly break down urine, etc.. I read an article that said "2/3 water+1/3 vinegar = a great urine odor eliminator" (I've been using that for a few days - as it's much cheaper, and it seems to work really well)

4) I hope so too..

Well, I personally have never seen a pup pee without squatting. But I could imagine for a few it might be normal. But If it were my pup, I would make it a priority to get a urine sample for a vet to examine. Money is tight for me too, but if it would help solve your problem, I am sure it would be worth it. Not to mention the health benefit for your pup, should their be an infection.

I really hope you get him a check up before you start giving up on including him in your family.

Edit: Shiloh - my yellow lab was not fully trusted until about 11 months.
Charlie - my choc lab was fully trusted at 5 months. Rocket - GSD has never had an accident, but she was almost a year old and already trained when we got her. So really, the dog makes a difference too. And 4 weeks of housebreaking is really not that long for some dogs. But again, I hope you decide to get her a checkup.

Best Wishes.

 

[RobHedrick]

I love vinegar. I'm such a fan of it. And baking soda. But I've been told that it only masks the odours for us and not our dogs who smell much better. Just something to think about. It's probably true.

I would recommend getting him checked out by a vet as well. If you've ever had a UTI (urinary tract infection) you know that you can sleep through the night (depending on the severity) but once you're up it's up. Of course I know people who've had it much more severe than that and couldn't even walk.

Anyway, for odd behaviour like that it's best to get it checked out before you start with any training methods that may be destined to fail.

Thanks. I plan to have him checked out as soon as financially possible, also, I just learned there are help programs in my area that can help me out to get him seen by a vet.

I'm taking everyone's advice into consideration. I'm not taking him to the pound, as Doberluv said: 'I'd regret it' I'm sure, and I doubt anyone around here could love him as much as I do.

This is going to be a lot of work, and patients I need to find in myself.

BTW: he hasn't had any accidents (yet) today, but I'm also following the advice of taking him out more than once ever hour (it all depends on his activity as well)

Thanks again for all help guys (and ladies), you're great.

 

[Saje]

That's a good post. I'm sure things will work out. It always comes down to patience doesn't it?

 

[RobHedrick]

Well, I personally have never seen a pup pee without squatting. But I could imagine for a few it might be normal. But If it were my pup, I would make it a priority to get a urine sample for a vet to examine. Money is tight for me too, but if it would help solve your problem, I am sure it would be worth it. Not to mention the health benefit for your pup, should their be an infection.

I really hope you get him a check up before you start giving up on including him in your family.

Edit: Shiloh - my yellow lab was not fully trusted until about 11 months.
Charlie - my choc lab was fully trusted at 5 months. Rocket - GSD has never had an accident, but she was almost a year old and already trained when we got her. So really, the dog makes a difference too. And 4 weeks of housebreaking is really not that long for some dogs. But again, I hope you decide to get her a checkup.

Best Wishes.

Thanks for that info.

It's funny how dogs can be so different from one another lol. My Dad has a Sheltie (named Shiloh too!!) that (honest-to-God) did not need to be housebroken. He got the dog as a young pup, and the first day we were amazed that he didn't have a single accident. When he 'had to go', he would go and sit at the door just like the other dogs. He was an amazingly fast learner.

 

[JR0579]

Sorry I didn't explain well, let me try again:

He is in his crate trough-out the night - and he never goes potty in his crate. He just pees during the day..

Believe me, you explained it very well and I understood exactly what you said.I'll rephrase what said. I meant to say crate him during the times you know he will pee. Intentionally crate him in the morning when you are at your computer and then take him from the crate straight outside. That's in case, like others have said, it's not a medical condition. Good luck