I don't really get it.

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Whisper, Jul 10, 2006.

  1. Whisper

    Whisper Kaleidoscopic Eye

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,747
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4; 2 dogs, 2 cats
    I've seen so many people on here claim that the only valid reason for breeding dogs is if they're "show quality" or "champions" or "perfect specimens of the breed." But why is that ok? How is that any better than breeding pets? Yes, it guarantees they are sound and stuff like that, but I don't see why people focus on that. What great benifit does showing have for the world? I just can't see why some people are so stuffy about why "faultless" dogs are "better" to breed. People can be adopting a pure bred dog from a shelter instead of bringing more into the world, even if they are "breed champions."
     
  2. Bailey+Ralph

    Bailey+Ralph New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    Essex, England
    There is another thread going on that is devoted to this topic :)

    Did you get to see the vet yet with your girl?
     
  3. lakotasong

    lakotasong Sled Dog Guardian

    Joined:
    May 4, 2006
    Messages:
    870
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Verizon Wireless Retail Store Manager
    Location:
    New York State
    Home Page:
    No such thing as a faultless dog. And yes, I also think the other thread covers the question. And if you think we are saying "only breed to produce champions!!" the you haven't been reading what we've said at all.
     
  4. Renee750il

    Renee750il Felurian

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    Messages:
    94,266
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    3, Bimmer, GSDX (m); Kharma, Fila Brasileiro (f);
    Location:
    Where the selas blooms
    Home Page:
    The thing is, no matter how many titles and how outstanding two dogs are, most of the pups in a litter are NOT going to be show dogs, so, for all practical purposes, realistic breeders of show dogs know that a high percentage of their dogs' pups are going to be pets . . . and that's fine with them. You aim for the very best, and then (hopefully) even the least is a healthy, happy, good tempered pup who can look forward to a long, wonderful life with their people.
     
  5. Aussie Red

    Aussie Red Rebel With Cause

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    too many to list
    Location:
    HER OWN PLANET
    How is your dog ???
     
  6. Boxerowner

    Boxerowner New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Yep summit is correct There is no such thing as faultless! Showing is something I do and enjoy. I show whether I get ribbons or money those are just plus to me. At the end of the day have my beautiful girls not one else does they are part of my family. There is not reason to breed unless you have purpose. I have lots to say on the subject but to busy.
     
  7. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    64,812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Through the years I've seen many Golden Champions.... They were bred and raised for the ring. The Golden personality rang true, but because of being show quality they were not given the interaction Goldens need. Rolling in weeds, dirty ponds, attracted by toddlers, Yes . titles are good, but I truly liked my Goldens to be " normal " .... Of coarse I did the hip/eye/heart testing. But to me their kindness and gentleness meant more than the titles their ancestors had received.
     
  8. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    22,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    NC
    Round and Round we go, where we'll stop no one knows
     
  9. doberkim

    doberkim Naturally Natural

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    Messages:
    1,380
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i cant even follow what you are saying in some parts.

    how is being sound, healthy and with proper temperament and working abilities for each breed, better than just breeding anything?

    how is that any better?

    are you asking why people should focus on overally sound (in mind and body) dogs? and saying thats a stupid thing?
     
  10. Aussie Red

    Aussie Red Rebel With Cause

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Messages:
    1,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    too many to list
    Location:
    HER OWN PLANET
    I would just like to know if her pup went to the vet today and what the outcome was. Is she going to be ok ???
     
  11. jess2416

    jess2416 Who woulda thought

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    22,560
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    NC
    Why wouldn't it be ok?? I am talking about the ones that do health checks, and temperment tests and stuff like that and are trying to better the breed..not the ones that are just out there breeding all willy nilly


    You answered your own question with your next statement

    ,

    .
    Why not focus on that, I know I would want a sound and stable dog IF I ever went to a breeder and researched my next dog...

    Like Summitt said, there is no such thing as a faultless dog

    I am not even going to comment on this last statement
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2006
  12. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    64,812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Come on folks !! There's a big difference between planned breeding with all background checks , BYBs and Whoops ! I fault the breeders that are out for $$$ and not for the betterment of the breed or don't have a waiting list for future whelps.
     
  13. DanL

    DanL Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2005
    Messages:
    3,932
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    That's how I feel about it too. But you have to remember, what one person might consider as doing things for the betterment of the breed may not be what someone else thinks.
     
  14. Boxerowner

    Boxerowner New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I would just like to point out to momof2pups, Just because a dog/bitch is titled does not mean they are sound. Yes they are more likely to be but some very bad show ppl show do with such things as bad temperament.
     
  15. Whisper

    Whisper Kaleidoscopic Eye

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    13,747
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4; 2 dogs, 2 cats
    That came out all wrong. Soundness=healthy=good for all dogs, whether or not they're going to be bred.
     
  16. Boxerowner

    Boxerowner New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Kentucky
    There really to me isn't a reason to just breed because they are champions. There should always be a good reason to bring more pups in to the world and not just because they are a ch., because they are beautiful, want to see puppies born, or make money BTW having litter(S) is very expensive if its not you are doing something wrong, etc..... Being a ch. is just a plus. I hope this makes sense.
     
  17. wolfsoul

    wolfsoul I Love My Belgian

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog, 3 rats. 1 cat (lives with my mother now)
    Location:
    Kelowna, BC, Canada
    Home Page:
    I don't think it's okay just to breed a dog because it is titled or because it's a Champion.

    Look at some examples of breeders I know:

    Breeder #1:
    Has 10 champions.
    Titles on some of her dogs include: CD, CGN, TG-N, TN-N, CGC, RN, CL1-R, CL1-H, CL1-S, PCD, TT, AGX, SMADC, MADC, NGC, TG-N, WV-N, AGI, ADC,

    If someone is focused on titles they may think she is a good breeder. This breeder bred two dogs that she knew both carried the gene for cleft palates. Four of the puppies were born with cleft palates. She let them starve to death. This breeder used to work where I am. She was fired because she was incredibly abusive to the dogs. In agility class she would pinch her dogs when she thought no one was looking. The only reason 8 of the 10 dogs she has got their CH is because she enters lots of her dogs in one show and pins them up against eachother so that if one of her dogs wins, which it usually did because she was the only one with the breed, it would get more points. Her dogs are ugly as hell. In one show, a judge actually said "none of these dogs deserve ribbons" and excused them all from the ring. In another show, the judge asked why there were 2 of the same breed in the group ring -- well, one was the right breed -- he mistook her dog for that breed too!

    Breeder #2

    All six of her dogs are CH, some both Am/Can CH.
    Titles include: CD, CGC, HIC, BPD, VCX, ROMX, HT, PT, TT

    Titles look awesome. All of her dogs are champions. 3 of her 6 dogs also have collie eye anomoly. Some of them are slightly micropthalmic (not enough for the judges to notice, but who knows what they produce). 4 of her dogs are MDR1 carriers. She was recently disqualified from a show for kicking one of her clients' dogs down a hill. I've heard horror stories (and experienced one myself with my own dog and this breeder) of dogs going to a show with her and then never being showable again. I've talked to one person who says they've seen her kick a dog in the ribs, and another person who says they saw her throw a client dog down and hit it repeatedly for barking.

    I can name a dozen more cases like these.


    Now, I also don't find it okay to breed just for pets.

    Breeder #1:

    Bred their goldens as "pets." Because the dogs were just pets, they didn't research the pedigree. Turns out the dogs were full-siblings. Every puppy in that litter was COMPLETELY INSANE. These were golden retrievers that would sooner rip your face off than look at you. I believe only one of the puppies wasn't put to sleep.

    Breeder #2:

    Bred their chi/pom mix and their chihuahua. They just wanted to make cute little pets. I know two of the dogs from this litter. One of them is getting surgery to fix his luxating pattellas. The other has some disease the vets can't even figure out.


    In other words, I don't think that people should be breeding for show, and I don't think they should be breeding for pets. They should be breeding for the ALL-AROUND DOG. Breed for show, breed for pet, breed for health and temperment and working ability and soundness of body and mind. Love your dogs, take care of your dogs, call your breeding program a hobby but treat it like it's your life and your passion. People focus too much one one factor. "Well this breeder titles their dogs." "This breeder health certifies." "All of this breeder's dogs are champions." Look at the whole picture....
     
  18. Citrus007

    Citrus007 New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2006
    Messages:
    742
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    7
    ^Best I have heard about it overall.
     
  19. Wiggle Butt

    Wiggle Butt Love my Labs

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    Messages:
    171
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4 dogs
    Location:
    Florida
    Excellent post, Jordan. I completely agree!
     
  20. Bailey+Ralph

    Bailey+Ralph New Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1
    Location:
    Essex, England
    She stated on her Origanal thread about her dog might be pregnant, that she is going to see the vet on Wednsday :)
     

Share This Page