I Do Not..

[Southpaw]

Clicker training- you have to keep this stupid plastic thing with you at almost all times (or atleast in the begining). Sorry but I don't want to depend on something I can easily lose and then im up crap creek with a dog who only responds or responds well to a clicker. No thank you.

Why would that be the case? The clicker is not the reward, the clicker isn't what makes a dog obey a command. It's just telling my dog "good job!" a lot quicker than I'd be able to say it, and much more consistent. If your dog does a command when you have a clicker in your pocket, then he'll still do the command even if you don't have it. I've never had an issue fading the clicker (fading treats is another story!). Once the command is on cue I just stop using it. I'll still use it during training sessions even for basic, well known things like "sit," but I don't take it anywhere with me, unless I'm going somewhere specifically to train.

But I am genuinely curious while people think you are a slave to the clicker, because a lot of people think that.

 

[AllieMackie]

The way I see it. This is how they are different.

Clicker training- you have to keep this stupid plastic thing with you at almost all times (or atleast in the begining). Sorry but I don't want to depend on something I can easily lose and then im up crap creek with a dog who only responds or responds well to a clicker. No thank you.

Vocal marks- well it is your voice. Your always going to have it unless you get a nasty cold or become mute. But I know even when I can barely squeak out commands my dogs understand and follow them. And the chances of me becoming mute are slim to none.

I feel much better knowing that I don't need to depend on a clicker to get my dogs to listen to obedience commands, show off tricks, or work on training in general.

I also don't have to spend money on some little peice of plastic and metal (that makes a god awful sound in my opinion) that I know I would definately continue to lose and continue to have to buy. Yes I know they are cheap but hey im saving money no matter how small an amount.

Many dogs, my own included, are conditioned to several reinforcers. If I don't have a clicker, my dog doesn't shut off - I simply use a vocal reinforcer. Not a problem. If I have the clicker, great, I can shape some new behaviours with greater accuracy. Again, this is what works for my dog.

To each their own, of course. It's fine if you don't like clickers or don't like the sound of them, but it's a bit brash to make assumptions that if you use a clicker on a dog, it will be solely reliant on the clicker.

 

[Laurelin]

Why would that be the case? The clicker is not the reward, the clicker isn't what makes a dog obey a command. It's just telling my dog "good job!" a lot quicker than I'd be able to say it, and much more consistent. If your dog does a command when you have a clicker in your pocket, then he'll still do the command even if you don't have it. I've never had an issue fading the clicker (fading treats is another story!). Once the command is on cue I just stop using it. I'll still use it during training sessions even for basic, well known things like "sit," but I don't take it anywhere with me, unless I'm going somewhere specifically to train.

But I am genuinely curious while people think you are a slave to the clicker, because a lot of people think that.

Same here.

 

[Doberluv]

Clicker training, marker training is even more than a philosophy though, imo. It's making use of the science of learning behavior, the laws of learning behavior through the utilization of classical conditioning. (different from operant conditioning) Operant conditioning is..."do this, this happens, do that and something else happens.") Classical conditioning is giving or assigning a value to something that doesn't inherently have value (clicker or marker signal of any kind) because it is paired with something that does have value. So, technically speaking, marker training is classical condtioning.

So I'd be standing there with the clicker in my hand and he thinks it's a treat and he instantly became a total idiot and it was difficult to get him to do anything, let alone learn

But he WAS learning, right on schedule. LOL. He learned that the clicker (not just the click) means a treat is coming. So instead of the click sound being the marker, he was associating the clicker toy itself to the goodies. (easy for them to do, of course) All you had to do was desensatize him so he would see you carrying around the clicker, sitting there watching TV, jiggling (not clicking) the clicker, picking up the clicker but not using it. And he'd stop leaping around like a goof ball. He came to realize that sequence, that predictablity that the clicker itself meant food.

Anyhow, bottom line is that clicker training is marker training. Marker, meaning identifying, marking something, pointing out something to someone. lol. Saying "yesss!" every time, preceding a reinforcer or saying some other word, or blowing a whistle or snapping your fingers, making a kissy noise...anything noticeable and unique (not used for everyday "conversation") to the dog that immediately and consistently precedes something valuable to the dog, (or any animal) will come to have meaning and will identify a behavior for the dog when it is paired with that behavior. I use "yesssss!" a lot but it's not like the "yes" I use other times. It's very hissssy! Ha!

 

[Chewbecca]

Come on, guys.

If you don't like one way of positive training, fine.
No reason to INSULT that way, though.
That's just immature.

I use a clicker sometimes (taught Luke how to play fetch with it), and other times I don't use a clicker.
My dogs can do their basic commands without the clicker, but teaching new things (like playing fetch) is easier, I think, with a clicker.
This has just been MY experience, though.

And the crate???
My puppies get crated on and off throughout the day. If I cannot be watching them, they are crated for now.
Both are almost house broken, but we still have accidents occasionally (even if I have just taken them outside and they went), so if I cannot be watching them, I crate them.
I crate them when I shower and I crate them when I have to work downstairs.
And I crate them if I am cleaning the house.
But once I am done with these things, I let them out of the crate.

But I also have TWO puppies. Not just one.
And two puppies doubles the necessity for EVERYTHING.

 

[Doberluv]

I agree that you shouldn't feel like you are a slave to a clicker. They're for getting a dog started on a behavior....like jumper cables. LOL. You don't have to have one on you all the time at all.

As far as some dogs being afraid of them, well, of course then, something else can be used. Chulita isn't really afraid because she's come to know that really good things follow, BUT....she still squints and flutters her eyes, just a little... for a second when she first hears it. LOL. Poor thing. She doesn't back away or act afraid though. She recovers quickly and then forwardly asks for her treat. What a dumpling she is. For Jose`, it's music to his ears.

 

[Lizmo]

Come on, guys.

If you don't like one way of positive training, fine.
No reason to INSULT that way, though.
That's just immature.

I agree....

I understand the OP was probably just venting and seeing if it was normal to not use a clicker or crate. But this bashing of different methods is a bit low, don't you think? We all have different ways to train. We do what works for our dogs and us.

 

[Chewbecca]

I agree....

I understand the OP was probably just venting and seeing if it was normal to not use a clicker or crate. But this bashing of different methods is a bit low, don't you think? We all have different ways to train. We do what works for our dogs and us.

Exactly.
But I will admit: I will be the FIRST to bash positive PUNISHMENT training.
I think it's HORRID.

 

[Doberluv]

Exactly.
But I will admit: I will be the FIRST to bash positive PUNISHMENT training.
I think it's HORRID.

I agree. But I also don't call that "method." LOL.

 

[PixieSticksandTricks]

I never bashed it I said I don't like the sound. And I honestly think the clicker itself its a stupid piece of plastic like a pen is a stupid peice of plastic. Or a whistle is a stupid peice of metal because I hate the sound of those. Lol. I never said the training method was stupid. Did I ever say it didn't work? Did I ever say you were wrong to use it? .........................................................................................................................................................................................................................Nope never saw that anywhere. Im not going to apologize if you think my opinion is too blunt oh well.

I do know people who depend on their clicker. My best friend for example is always using the thing with her dog. And yes her dog listens well. However she refuses to use voice commands period (not that I would push that on her) just the clicker. But she is also a ultra paranoid first time dog owner trying to everything by the book (nothing wrong with that).So YES there are people out there who are like this and depend on the annoying clicking sound. I do get alot of people phase it out and don't use the clicker 24/7 but trust me I know more than a few who do depend on it. Perhaps they are training the wrong way. I have no idea. And I have no desire to know. Because its their dogs their business.

If thats your cup of tea more power too you.

If my opinion is different and I think the sound it makes is god awful. More power to me. And more clickers on the market for people who want to actually use them.

Good to know disliking a sound = bashing a training method here though.

 

[PWCorgi]

The clicker hate makes me :lol-sign:

I really couldn't care less if people use the clicker or not, less that I have to worry about hearing other people click in public and them getting Frodo's attention
I just find it hilarious that people act like it is something to get angry about. People act like it's punishment.

Nw excuse me, I have to go find my clicker and eat some babies...

 

[Chewbecca]

I never bashed it I said I don't like the sound. And I honestly think the clicker itself its a stupid piece of plastic like a pen is a stupid peice of plastic. Or a whistle is a stupid peice of metal because I hate the sound of those. Lol. I never said the training method was stupid. Did I ever say it didn't work? Did I ever say you were wrong to use it? .........................................................................................................................................................................................................................Nope never saw that anywhere. Im not going to apologize if you think my opinion is too blunt oh well.

I do know people who depend on their clicker. My best friend for example is always using the thing with her dog. And yes her dog listens well. However she refuses to use voice commands period (not that I would push that on her) just the clicker. But she is also a ultra paranoid first time dog owner trying to everything by the book (nothing wrong with that).So YES there are people out there who are like this and depend on the annoying clicking sound. I do get alot of people phase it out and don't use the clicker 24/7 but trust me I know more than a few who do depend on it. Perhaps they are training the wrong way. I have no idea. And I have no desire to know. Because its their dogs their business.

If thats your cup of tea more power too you.

If my opinion is different and I think the sound it makes is god awful. More power to me. And more clickers on the market for people who want to actually use them.

Good to know disliking a sound = bashing a training method here though.

Nobody is expecting an apology out of you. Did you see anyone saying that???

Go ahead and express your opinion how you see fit.
I saw it as you "bashing" or "insulting" it.
But that doesn't mean you owe anyone an apology.:lol-sign:

 

[AllieMackie]

I never bashed it I said I don't like the sound. And I honestly think the clicker itself its a stupid piece of plastic like a pen is a stupid peice of plastic. Or a whistle is a stupid peice of metal because I hate the sound of those. Lol. I never said the training method was stupid. Did I ever say it didn't work? Did I ever say you were wrong to use it? .........................................................................................................................................................................................................................Nope never saw that anywhere. Im not going to apologize if you think my opinion is too blunt oh well.

-----------------------------------
Good to know disliking a sound = bashing a training method here though.

No one said you bashed the training method, I think some folks see the way you expressed your opinion as making an assumption that many of our dogs are reliant on clickers. It just came off as a bit insulting, but I can see the point you were trying to make. Calling an object many people on this forum use a "stupid piece of plastic" comes off as bashing, though you may not see it that way.

There are people who use training methods improperly all the time, unfortunately. It can give bad impressions of a tool, but its up to the individual to do their research and figure it out for themselves.

 

[Laurelin]

I never bashed it I said I don't like the sound. And I honestly think the clicker itself its a stupid piece of plastic like a pen is a stupid peice of plastic. Or a whistle is a stupid peice of metal because I hate the sound of those. Lol. I never said the training method was stupid. Did I ever say it didn't work? Did I ever say you were wrong to use it? .........................................................................................................................................................................................................................Nope never saw that anywhere. Im not going to apologize if you think my opinion is too blunt oh well.

I do know people who depend on their clicker. My best friend for example is always using the thing with her dog. And yes her dog listens well. However she refuses to use voice commands period (not that I would push that on her) just the clicker. But she is also a ultra paranoid first time dog owner trying to everything by the book (nothing wrong with that).So YES there are people out there who are like this and depend on the annoying clicking sound. I do get alot of people phase it out and don't use the clicker 24/7 but trust me I know more than a few who do depend on it. Perhaps they are training the wrong way. I have no idea. And I have no desire to know. Because its their dogs their business.

If thats your cup of tea more power too you.

If my opinion is different and I think the sound it makes is god awful. More power to me. And more clickers on the market for people who want to actually use them.

Good to know disliking a sound = bashing a training method here though.

It came out as if you use a clicker then your dog is reliant on a clicker. This is not true.

As for your friend and her dog, I bet her dog is not reliant on the clicker either. I bet if she wanted to remove the clicker she could. She simply doesn't want to for whatever reason, I suppose.

So saying

Clicker training- you have to keep this stupid plastic thing with you at almost all times (or atleast in the begining). Sorry but I don't want to depend on something I can easily lose and then im up crap creek with a dog who only responds or responds well to a clicker. No thank you.

and

I feel much better knowing that I don't need to depend on a clicker to get my dogs to listen to obedience commands, show off tricks, or work on training in general.

Is not a valid reason to dislike clicker training. Dogs that are clicker trained don't NEED a clicker to listen. The click is not what is making the dog listen or not.

I personally don't care if you like it or not. If you don't like it, THAT'S a valid reason not to use one.

 

[Catsi]

I have Abby conditioned to a clicker and a verbal bridge because I am simply forgetful and although I have about 50 clickers lying around somewhere...

I do love the clicker especially for learning new things and it is so precise. I am still working on my timing.

I agree, I use a clicker, but Abby doesn't need the clicker. I mix it up, but I love the precision (if I have good timing) that comes with the clicker. And I find it cuts down my use of too much talking whilst training, something else I have to work on!

- not talking as in praise, it's more a bad habit where I talk too much when asking for a behaviour. When I was teaching Abby sneeze, when she knew what sneeze was and she only did a tiny just audible sneeze and head shake, I'd say 'pardon' and she'd sneeze really loud. Now how confusing is that for the poor dog?? She knows it now, we just play the sneeze/pardon game. But you know, I'd rather not be confusing my dog by talking crap.

 

[Renee750il]

The only "crate" I've ever owned is a cat carrier. Tallulah's the only dog I've ever had who had a problem with being in the kennel at the vet's, and crate training isn't going to change that, especially at this late date. She's not going to tolerate a crate after she spent all those months kenneled in one, refusing to eat more than the bare minimum, pining away, wondering why her people never took her home.

I do NOT like crating large breed puppies. They need -- in my opinion -- room to move around freely to develop proper musculoskeletal systems. It's never been that difficult to make a laundry room or bathroom puppy safe.

I don't think I've ever had a clicker in my hands, but I also don't necessarily care about training my dogs for the same reasons that most people do. I couldn't possibly care less about walking at heel, and we've always done nicely having conversations.

Tallulah would probably enjoy doing some classes, and we may yet do that, if I can find a good one around here -- and I can afford it, but for us, it's only an amusement and possibly a way to let her help reach people who don't think APBTs should be allowed to live.

 

[Laurelin]

I do NOT like crating large breed puppies. They need -- in my opinion -- room to move around freely to develop proper musculoskeletal systems. It's never been that difficult to make a laundry room or bathroom puppy safe.

Have you ever had a dog that pulls up flooring? My closet totally has nothing in there except a dog bed. I can't leave Mia there alone because if I do she pulls up the carpet.

 

[PWCorgi]

Have you ever had a dog that pulls up flooring? My closet totally has nothing in there except a dog bed. I can't leave Mia there alone because if I do she pulls up the carpet.

Frodo did some massive damage to our linoleum tiles when he was a pup. Pulled up like 7 tiles when we ran a few errands
He also chewed a hole in the wall when I was in the shower. And I don't take long showers.


If I ever had a dog that I didn't want a crate I would probably just get an xpen. Way bigger and I can put it wherever I want!

 

[Catsi]

I love having conversations with my girl too... but I just don't want to confuse her when I'm trying to teach her something. Honestly, sometimes I just cannot shut up. Blah, blah, blah. I need to be taught some self control lol.

 

[PWCorgi]

I love having conversations with my girl too... but I just don't want to confuse her when I'm trying to teach her something. Honestly, sometimes I just cannot shut up. Blah, blah, blah. I need to be taught some self control lol.

:lol-sign:
I am the same way. Even with the clicker I find myself chattering away, as if Frodo cares or understands what I have to say.
That was my training goal for a while, not talking at all. Using body language and the clicker to get what I want, not my mouth