Hypothetical Breeding Question
- Thread starter StillandSilent
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If you have a bitch in season, yes, you can. There is no reason why the bitch should be outside without supervision. Some bitches will go and find a boy to breed them. My girls are not permitted outside off leash in my own yard. The instinct to procreate is very very VERY high in dogs, BOTH the boys and the girls.
These are animals. Unless you have 12 foot high chain link set into concrete all the way around, with a chain link roof, you will not have a fence that they cannot get out of or into. Animals can find a way out of (or into) anything if they have to. Dogs have been known to breed bitches through chain link. They have been known to breed bitches through crates. Males with strong enough sex drive have been known to tear through doors to get to a bitch in season. IME, there is no such thing as an impenitrable (sp??) fence when it comes to animals.
If someone does not want their intact bitch to be bred when she is in season, the ONLY way to guarantee that breeding doesn't happen is to supervise that bitch at every moment outside and to keep her in the house when you go out. We get complacent about things, no one has gotten into the yard before - it's safe.... well, there is always that chance that a dog, or coyote, or whatever WILL make it under/over/through the fence.... What makes fences great barriers for neighbours is the fact that generally, people respect fences. When the instinct to breed is upon a dog, they don't care....
These are animals. Unless you have 12 foot high chain link set into concrete all the way around, with a chain link roof, you will not have a fence that they cannot get out of or into. Animals can find a way out of (or into) anything if they have to. Dogs have been known to breed bitches through chain link. They have been known to breed bitches through crates. Males with strong enough sex drive have been known to tear through doors to get to a bitch in season. IME, there is no such thing as an impenitrable (sp??) fence when it comes to animals.
If someone does not want their intact bitch to be bred when she is in season, the ONLY way to guarantee that breeding doesn't happen is to supervise that bitch at every moment outside and to keep her in the house when you go out. We get complacent about things, no one has gotten into the yard before - it's safe.... well, there is always that chance that a dog, or coyote, or whatever WILL make it under/over/through the fence.... What makes fences great barriers for neighbours is the fact that generally, people respect fences. When the instinct to breed is upon a dog, they don't care....
That's fine, all I'm going to say is you all are very weird in how you think. It is probably due to the fact that some of you have prize winning show dogs and you all are just paranoid. I know where I live, and I know what I can do. You can call me immature, stupid, and so on with all the name-calling most of the people do on here, doesn't bother me much. I know I keep my dogs safe, you all don't, you all also don't know where I live, so you all don't know how the living conditions are. Sigh... just because you all live by a certain routine does'nt mean others have to as well, sorry. JMO
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IF the female should have been watched 24/7 so should the male of.
Both have a responsibility to watch their pets so I dont understand why it is okay that the male got loose because he was outside unattended but not okay that the female got bred IN HER OWN YARD unattended.
I am sure there is a leash law which would make the male's owners 100% responsible.
Both have a responsibility to watch their pets so I dont understand why it is okay that the male got loose because he was outside unattended but not okay that the female got bred IN HER OWN YARD unattended.
I am sure there is a leash law which would make the male's owners 100% responsible.
Yes, there should be leash laws, and in most parts there are. That is why I don't understand some of you claiming it would be more of the female owners fault if they have her CONFINED IN THIER YARD. I just don't get it. We have a leash law where I live, and the fines for a dog trespassing on another's property (whether they have a bitch in heat or not) is from what i've heard 500 dollars. Another thing, isn't it true that the males are the ones that wonder off of the property to look for the female in heat?! They are the ones that should be confined properly in their yard as well. I agree with you adoptashelterpettoday.
Adoptashelterpettoday,
No one is saying its ok for the male to have gotten loose. I believe the point is were fighting natural strong instincts. I have seen dogs chew through cyclone fencing to get to a female in heat cause there was no other way out.
Also how is one to know if there is a female in heat a half mile away? You dont know. So not only are you fighting the unknown but nature as well.
Its amazing what dogs will do when its this time.
Example:
I have a female who was in heat. Kept her in the house or in a crate in the house while we were away. We have a area off our back door for the dogs who are inside they can go and do thier thing.Behind this area is the yard for the dogs. This female was putting her butt up against the cedar fence trying to get one of my males to mate her. Of course we watched her the whole time out there so that there was no mistakes. It would have been impossible through the fence we have. If I had a cyclone fence I am sure it would have been a close call a time or two. One of the males tried eating through the wood a couple times. Of course we stopped that immediatly.
Point is if theres a will theres a way. Nature finds a way. Its up to us who have intact animals to be on our toes.
No one is saying its ok for the male to have gotten loose. I believe the point is were fighting natural strong instincts. I have seen dogs chew through cyclone fencing to get to a female in heat cause there was no other way out.
Also how is one to know if there is a female in heat a half mile away? You dont know. So not only are you fighting the unknown but nature as well.
Its amazing what dogs will do when its this time.
Example:
I have a female who was in heat. Kept her in the house or in a crate in the house while we were away. We have a area off our back door for the dogs who are inside they can go and do thier thing.Behind this area is the yard for the dogs. This female was putting her butt up against the cedar fence trying to get one of my males to mate her. Of course we watched her the whole time out there so that there was no mistakes. It would have been impossible through the fence we have. If I had a cyclone fence I am sure it would have been a close call a time or two. One of the males tried eating through the wood a couple times. Of course we stopped that immediatly.
Point is if theres a will theres a way. Nature finds a way. Its up to us who have intact animals to be on our toes.
I might have prize winning show dogs, but my paranoia does not come from the fact that they are prize winning - it comes from the fact that I do not want unexpected puppies.
Yes, I believe I did say that a stud dog owner is JUST as responsible for ensuring their dog does not unexpectedly breed a bitch as it is the bitch owner's responsibility. In this hypothetical situation, BOTH owners were too complacent, both should be responsible because both had intact dogs.
I was talking about IN SEASON bitches. There is no way I would let my in season girls run around unsupervised. That is just asking for trouble. I am a firm believer in letting dogs be dogs, and I don't care how many "wins" my "prize show dogs" have - they still get to run, they still work the cattle - and yes, risk getting hurt, they still come with me, loose, when I go horseback riding back in the pastureland. But NOT if they are in season.
Yes, I believe I did say that a stud dog owner is JUST as responsible for ensuring their dog does not unexpectedly breed a bitch as it is the bitch owner's responsibility. In this hypothetical situation, BOTH owners were too complacent, both should be responsible because both had intact dogs.
I was talking about IN SEASON bitches. There is no way I would let my in season girls run around unsupervised. That is just asking for trouble. I am a firm believer in letting dogs be dogs, and I don't care how many "wins" my "prize show dogs" have - they still get to run, they still work the cattle - and yes, risk getting hurt, they still come with me, loose, when I go horseback riding back in the pastureland. But NOT if they are in season.
Well that makes me feel better to know they get to run around. I know some people who have a fenced in yard and yet they still continue to tie their dogs up when they are outside. Your great for letting them be dogs. We can't have cattle in the yard, but we have geese, my lab mixes are trained to herd because of my uncle, so they herd the 14 geese that we have.
Hehe, yea well they grew up with those big birds LOL. Back when they were pups the geese had the run of the yard and were herding the boys around. When we go out to the beach or when they go with my uncle to the deer lease, the drive seems to be switched on. They hate segals from the beach, and have caught some in their time, the prey drive is'nt a pretty thing. lol... but they love thier geese brothers and sisters.
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My point is if the FEMALE needs to be watched 24/7, an intact male should be watched just as carefully.
No, you cant fight nature but as chul said, MALES are the ones who are known to wonder long distances to find a female in heat. They should be watched JUST as carefully.
Again though, I wouldnt ever have a mixed breed (or even a pure breed for that matter) unsterilized. (Unless of course it was an excellent specimin of the breed and was working on getting titled, exc.)
But people sadly are allowed to do what they want with their animals (which is why our shelter kills 90+ highly adoptable dogs & cats a week)..
Point is the owners of the male should have been watching him.
Mom-I get what you are saying about the fencing. Perhaps the owner of the male should have had better fencing as well then he wouldnt have gotten out??
I have heard though that dogs can mate through a fence. But that wasnt so in this case.
THere is nothing you can say that you cant say "they should have done that for the male". The fencing for female should have been better but so should it have for the male. The female should have been watched closer, well so should the male have.
If anything, the male's owner should have been more responsible considering they had a well bred in tact male. The mutt's owners sorry to say but I doubt they were as educated. The responsible breeder has a higher standard/ethics to live up to. It might not be fair but it is fact.
No, you cant fight nature but as chul said, MALES are the ones who are known to wonder long distances to find a female in heat. They should be watched JUST as carefully.
Again though, I wouldnt ever have a mixed breed (or even a pure breed for that matter) unsterilized. (Unless of course it was an excellent specimin of the breed and was working on getting titled, exc.)
But people sadly are allowed to do what they want with their animals (which is why our shelter kills 90+ highly adoptable dogs & cats a week)..
Point is the owners of the male should have been watching him.
Mom-I get what you are saying about the fencing. Perhaps the owner of the male should have had better fencing as well then he wouldnt have gotten out??
I have heard though that dogs can mate through a fence. But that wasnt so in this case.
THere is nothing you can say that you cant say "they should have done that for the male". The fencing for female should have been better but so should it have for the male. The female should have been watched closer, well so should the male have.
If anything, the male's owner should have been more responsible considering they had a well bred in tact male. The mutt's owners sorry to say but I doubt they were as educated. The responsible breeder has a higher standard/ethics to live up to. It might not be fair but it is fact.
What, Chul, is so WRONG with being careful with a bitch in season?
When I have my female, when she is in season she will NOT be outside unattended, ever. Most likely not even without a leash. If my male is still intact, one or the other will be crated at all timeswhile she is in season. Not just kept in a separate room, but crated. I've seen too many mistakes happen when people just put dogs in separate rooms and then say "oops, somehow the door got open . . . " to excuse their dogs tied in the living room.
Being careful and responsible with a bitch in season is 100% necessary. If you can't do it, spay your bitch. Dogs do not understand that it's wrong to escape from their yard to seek out a mate (bitches do it too, btw, not just dogs) That's something that people need to control.
The reason the bitch needs to be watched with such zeal is because SHE is the one that can bear the puppies. Granted, you can't have puppies without a male, but keeping the female under tight control for maybe a month out of the year is much easier than keeping a male under the same tight control for 365 days. Not that males shouldn't be carefully watched as well, but if you have a bitch in heat, DON'T LET HER IN THE YARD UNATTENDED! It's just freaking common sense.
I hope you don't have intact animals.
When I have my female, when she is in season she will NOT be outside unattended, ever. Most likely not even without a leash. If my male is still intact, one or the other will be crated at all timeswhile she is in season. Not just kept in a separate room, but crated. I've seen too many mistakes happen when people just put dogs in separate rooms and then say "oops, somehow the door got open . . . " to excuse their dogs tied in the living room.
Being careful and responsible with a bitch in season is 100% necessary. If you can't do it, spay your bitch. Dogs do not understand that it's wrong to escape from their yard to seek out a mate (bitches do it too, btw, not just dogs) That's something that people need to control.
The reason the bitch needs to be watched with such zeal is because SHE is the one that can bear the puppies. Granted, you can't have puppies without a male, but keeping the female under tight control for maybe a month out of the year is much easier than keeping a male under the same tight control for 365 days. Not that males shouldn't be carefully watched as well, but if you have a bitch in heat, DON'T LET HER IN THE YARD UNATTENDED! It's just freaking common sense.
I hope you don't have intact animals.
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AGAIN what about the intact males? Do you watch your male while he is outside as well?
Bad comparison but it is like the men who leave their pregant wives/girlfriends and claim it is all th woman's fault they got pregnant because they forgot to take their birth control pill. Well the same can be said for the male not taking precautions as well. As the saying goes "it takes two to tango".
If you arent watching your male and he gets loose you are just as responsible for him.
Good for you watching your female, you are right everyone should but I dont see why males get some automatic excuse and are obviously according to everyone on here free of blame if they get out of their yard, jump a fence and breed a female?
Seems like the male's owner should have been watching him as well.
How happy would you be if you went inside while your female was outside to get a glass of tea and some male jumped your fence and when you got back out they were "tied"?
My point is people with intact males should also be 100% responsible. Again it takes 2 to "tango". If you cant handle that you should get your male sterilized. It shouldnt be one way for males and the other way for females.
Dont know if your comment was directed to me or not. I agree 100% females in heat should be watched 24/7, but I add to that SO SHOULD MALES. But with males it is CONSTANT because they dont have a certain time of year when they breed.
All my animals are sterilized because as my name suggests I volunteer at a kill shelter and I get to see lots of "oops" litters come in only to be killed weeks sometimes even days later.
Bad comparison but it is like the men who leave their pregant wives/girlfriends and claim it is all th woman's fault they got pregnant because they forgot to take their birth control pill. Well the same can be said for the male not taking precautions as well. As the saying goes "it takes two to tango".
If you arent watching your male and he gets loose you are just as responsible for him.
Good for you watching your female, you are right everyone should but I dont see why males get some automatic excuse and are obviously according to everyone on here free of blame if they get out of their yard, jump a fence and breed a female?
Seems like the male's owner should have been watching him as well.
How happy would you be if you went inside while your female was outside to get a glass of tea and some male jumped your fence and when you got back out they were "tied"?
My point is people with intact males should also be 100% responsible. Again it takes 2 to "tango". If you cant handle that you should get your male sterilized. It shouldnt be one way for males and the other way for females.
Dont know if your comment was directed to me or not. I agree 100% females in heat should be watched 24/7, but I add to that SO SHOULD MALES. But with males it is CONSTANT because they dont have a certain time of year when they breed.
All my animals are sterilized because as my name suggests I volunteer at a kill shelter and I get to see lots of "oops" litters come in only to be killed weeks sometimes even days later.
What's a week or two of being mildly "miserable" (and that's a stretch of the imagination) being cooped up while you're fertile vs being pregnant and going through labor and being a mother for however many weeks it is before your pup is taken to the shelter or given away to a home of potential neglect, OR having an emergency spay, basically a puppy abortion?
I hope you don't have intact dogs, because if you do own an intact male and an intact female, unless you plan to let them breed each and every time the girl goes into season, you WILL have a miserable dog. Boys can be terrible when a girl goes into season. They can cry all the time, they can stop eating.... and then there are those that run weight off because they are so wound up that a bitch is in season and they can't have her.
It's part of life. For some of us, more than others. We that own intact animals can't just let them breed when they feel like it. There are so many dogs in rescue, so many dogs euthanized DAILY. Responsible breeders DO think about that, and their dogs are very CAREFULLY bred, and if we don't have homes for our pups before hand, a lot of us WILL NOT BREED, no matter how lovely we think a combination will be. There has to be homes for puppies brought into the world.
And I really wish people would READ what others have posted instead of saying "everyone thinks this" or "everyone says that". We're not all saying the same thing.
It's part of life. For some of us, more than others. We that own intact animals can't just let them breed when they feel like it. There are so many dogs in rescue, so many dogs euthanized DAILY. Responsible breeders DO think about that, and their dogs are very CAREFULLY bred, and if we don't have homes for our pups before hand, a lot of us WILL NOT BREED, no matter how lovely we think a combination will be. There has to be homes for puppies brought into the world.
And I really wish people would READ what others have posted instead of saying "everyone thinks this" or "everyone says that". We're not all saying the same thing.
We've figured that much out at least, you've made it loud and clear.....
so cooping a dog up is making it miserable....
What is an accidental pregnancy, the stress of labor, the physical drag of mothering OR an emergency spay, perhaps LATER than the actual date of impregnantion?
Daisies and butterflies?
so cooping a dog up is making it miserable....
What is an accidental pregnancy, the stress of labor, the physical drag of mothering OR an emergency spay, perhaps LATER than the actual date of impregnantion?
Daisies and butterflies?