Hitting spanking slapping popping

[Fran101]

being a dog walker also does WONDERS for dog pulling on lead patience.
They aren't our dogs to train.. so it's a lot of just grinning and bearing it.

BUT NOTE to dog owners. If your dog pulls on the lead and is a nightmare to walk..rest assured your dog is getting EXACTLY a 20 minute walk (or how-ever long walk you pay for)
Most dogs that are pleasant to talk, even if they paid for a 20, get a 30, an hour.. a trip to the store, walk around the park.
The pullers (not so much the constant pullers.. but the ones that wait and then LUNGE) drives me BONKERS!! Takes every bit of patience I have not to yank them right back!!! UGH!!! and they get exactly the amount of time their owners pay for before I bring em right back home!!

 

[PWCorgi]

Frodo likes rough play, especially with Ryan who will send him sliding 6 or so feet on hard floors. He comes back again and again asking for more.

I personally don't think hitting is ever okay, or serious physical force of any kind. Except, like others have said, in seriously dangerous situations.

That being said, I have absolutely done things that I've regretted instantly. I think the worst was when we had first moved into the apartment, Frodo wasn't doing well at all, constantly barking. We'd received a noise complaint and my stress level was through the roof about getting another one and there was a day where Frodo seriously just would. not. shut. up. At one point I passed my threshold and grabbed his muzzle, hard, and yelled at him to shut up. I'm pretty sure it took me less than 5 seconds to have a complete meltdown. I felt *so* bad, I was so mad at myself that I just sat there and bawled and gave Frodo a couple handfuls of treats.

So yeah, I'm a human, I do rash things, but never ever would I do it in the name of training.

 

[TahlzK]

As a few others have said, I don't blame people for hitting/smacking a dog to stop something that really really must be stopped for the safety of the dog/person. I've had to do it before to snap Serenity out of trying to bite some one and it worked, I wasn't happy about it but it was a quick reaction.

I have smacked the dogs before and I've learnt that doesn't work. I regret doing what I've done at times but I've learnt and I've learnt to be patient. We all work much better as a team now but it took a lot of patient with Sunny, he boils my blood at times but Serenity has taught me a lot about patient and positive training.

I don't think hitting/smacking should be used in training but sometimes people react naturally to certain things when it comes to something their dog does. I have smacked Sunny before for doing **** that pisses me off but I've been using different methods and I make sure I breath and think before I act.

Though I'm not against people giving their dog a small smack/pop if needed.

 

[Barbara!]

What behavior was evidence to you that this mare “liked†someone? Horses are just as good at appeasement gestures as dogs - and humans are just as quick to interpret appeasement as “likeâ€.

Following said person around... Coming to the gate to be around that person.. Walking along her fence line to be near... Those sorts of things. Not just nickering.

It was only me and the stable manager that she did this with. Everyone else she just straight up ignored. And the only time I ever hit her was when she stood on my feet while brushing... I rammed her off of me. After that she was attached to me. The stable manager said it had something to do with respect I guess? Lol, idk. Like I said, I don't have a whole lot of training experience when it comes to horses. Just handling AFTER they've been trained.

 

[CharlieDog]

Everyone has bad days of course. I yell quite a bit, but I rarely ever get physical with my dogs except in play. And all of mine except Enzo love to play rough. She does like a good thumping and butt smack though. She just doesn't like the "I'm going to push you and you're going to growl and come back at me" game that the other three do.

I've smacked Knox out of reflex. Walloped him a good one upside the head because he surprised the hell out of me the first time he grabbed my leg in redirection. He let go, but he really didn't care that he'd been smacked at all, which is what I expect out of a dog of his drive and temperament. I think I yelled something obscene too,

But as far as spanking or the like? Not anymore. I did when I was younger (like, a lot, this must be nearly a decade ago now) and had no idea what positive reinforcement was, nor what the concept of proofing meant. I would teach my dog something in the house and thought that he should know what the command was in the yard. If he didn't do it, I'd give him a collar correction. I regret a lot of training that was done with my first dog, and bless him, he was a saint with me.

I will yell at my dogs quite a lot, and I always say Ozzy is my punishment for being someone who yells frequently, because he won't shut up. They all ignore me for the most part. They seem to know I'm just yelling to yell because they stand there grinning at me the entire time.

 

[Dekka]

Following said person around... Coming to the gate to be around that person.. Walking along her fence line to be near... Those sorts of things. Not just nickering.

It was only me and the stable manager that she did this with. Everyone else she just straight up ignored. And the only time I ever hit her was when she stood on my feet while brushing... I rammed her off of me. After that she was attached to me. The stable manager said it had something to do with respect I guess? Lol, idk. Like I said, I don't have a whole lot of training experience when it comes to horses. Just handling AFTER they've been trained.

Sounds like a very messed up horse to me, I know some geldings that think pushing and shoving and the like are fun. No that doesn't have any thing to do with respect. In fact horses that like that sort of thing and are indulged by people are dangerous.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

A whippet/pit bull 10 month old was climbing an xpen out of excitement last Friday. I yelled NO and ran at her without thinking and she panicked. She flipped over backwards and landed on her back. I pulled her out to watch her walk it off, no damage physically, so I brought out a few of her friends to play with. She didn't play but stuck to me like glue, she was nervous and every time I left baby talk and spoke like a human she would wiggle even more with apology and "admiration".

Some who're uneducated could have viewed that as love in dogs. I've know a lot of eternally apologetic pit bulls who're so epically worried that the owners think its just nonstop love.

Maybe it's similar?

 

[Emily]

A whippet/pit bull 10 month old was climbing an xpen out of excitement last Friday. I yelled NO and ran at her without thinking and she panicked. She flipped over backwards and landed on her back. I pulled her out to watch her walk it off, no damage physically, so I brought out a few of her friends to play with. She didn't play but stuck to me like glue, she was nervous and every time I left baby talk and spoke like a human she would wiggle even more with apology and "admiration".

Some who're uneducated could have viewed that as love in dogs. I've know a lot of eternally apologetic pit bulls who're so epically worried that the owners think its just nonstop love.

Maybe it's similar?

Ugh the worst is when you scare a client's dog because its softer than you knew or whatever. Or you do things your dogs like and think are fun and it totally off puts the client dog. One time I squirted a BC with water for execessive barking and he spent then next hour crawling around on his belly.

I'd venture to guess that something similar to what you described is what was going on with the horse in question. I don't buy for a second that, "You smacked her, so now she respects you and thinks you're great!" It likely has a lot more to do with a learned pattern of behavior regarding preventing more physical punishment.

 

[Emily]

Though I'm not against people giving their dog a small smack/pop if needed.

Define "needed." I take issue with that notion only because rarely do peoples' conceptions of needed line up. One might say, "He wouldn't stop barking!" while others say, "He snapped at me over food!"

Neither of those situations warrant a smack IMO and IME a smack isn't going to teach the dog anything.

My point is that either you're alright with people giving a dog a smack when they want to, or your not ok with it. Because in reality, the smack has a lot more to do with what the person wants than what the dog needs.

Personally, I'd much much much rather see other methods of force applied than smacking with a hand if that what's people choose to do. There are thoughtful ways to apply aversives, but very rarely does smacking/"popping" fall into that category.

 

[AllisonPitbullLvr]

I took an entire 6 week course with a terrible trainer that involved popping and smacking Obi near constantly. It was awful and I have so so so much regret and guilt and shame over it.

But it made me look into other training options and now I am the polar opposite. Obi and I start class Monday with a trainer who belongs to the international positive dog training association.

During my learning curve, I was fostering an illegal Pitbull who had learned some really bad habits. You couldn't touch her collar, or she'd bite. She would get easily overstimulated when outside, grab your leg, dig her dewclaws in and jump. In both of these situations, I would have been severely bitten if I attempted to hit, tap, correct or physically manipulate her. It made me use my brain instead of my strength.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Ugh the worst is when you scare a client's dog because its softer than you knew or whatever.

Exactly, I was devastated.

 

[~Jessie~]

I've honestly never hit/spanked/slapped/leash popped/screamed at/etc any of the chihuahuas. I don't even understand HOW anyone can hit a tiny dog- it would do some serious damage. If they're in any sort of danger, you can pick them up with one hand.

I've gotten in Rory's face before and grabbed his muzzle and screamed at him when I lost my temper (he'll bark over and over again and it ended up really getting to me one day)- I felt really bad, though, afterwards and wished I had calmed down instead of taking it out on him. He's a VERY hard dog so I'm sure it affected me more than it affected him.

I'm pretty patient and it takes a LOT for the dogs to really upset me.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

I've gotten in Rory's face before and grabbed his muzzle and screamed at him when I lost my temper (he'll bark over and over again and it ended up really getting to me one day)-.

I admit this is my biggest flaw, controlling my temper when Backup stops working with me and just starts screaming/barking and bouncing/slamming and nipping/biting and spinning. It drives me up a wall mostly because it usually only happens when I'm already stressed. When we're alone I can calm myself and wait him out but with an audience I sometimes find myself embarassed, flustered, and frustrated that my dog who can do it is not doing it and I'm sure it's my fault due to my nerves. I swear this dog is a meter for my moods. I need to just walk away and chill out but he'll get this way and sometimes I just lose it and end up arguing back.

Am I perfect? No, if you looked at my other 3 dogs, or my clients, I could probably say "sure!" lol (Totally joking) They never push my buttons the same way, but with Backup, nope it's a learning curve. Someday we'll figure things out but until then I'm sure we'll continue to fumble. Lucky for him he's cute and fun usually.

However I must agree to accept these knee jerk reactions as "needed" or "something I use" isn't a good thing. Used? sure. Mistakes? definitely. To constantly strive to be better? I suppose that's all we can do.

 

[Doberluv]

I've honestly never hit/spanked/slapped/leash popped/screamed at/etc any of the chihuahuas. I don't even understand HOW anyone can hit a tiny dog- it would do some serious damage. If they're in any sort of danger, you can pick them up with one hand.

I've gotten in Rory's face before and grabbed his muzzle and screamed at him when I lost my temper (he'll bark over and over again and it ended up really getting to me one day)- I felt really bad, though, afterwards and wished I had calmed down instead of taking it out on him. He's a VERY hard dog so I'm sure it affected me more than it affected him.

I'm pretty patient and it takes a LOT for the dogs to really upset me.

I agree...same here. If they are annoying...if they aren't learning something, it's my fault, not theirs. I would never lay a hand on my Chihuahuas. It could kill them. And if it didn't kill them, it would crush their little spirits. I have spoken harshly to them a few times of impatience, but nothing over-the-top.

 

[Emily]

However I must agree to accept these knee jerk reactions as "needed" or "something I use" isn't a good thing. Used? sure. Mistakes? definitely. To constantly strive to be better? I suppose that's all we can do.

LOL oh hell, at the time, of course they need it. When I'm seeing red, bleeding from somewhere, and a dog is STILL barking and nipping at me, the dog really god **** "needs" a smack at that moment in time.

I can freely admit that what keeps me from doing it is remembering how I'll feel about it an hour later. You are so not the only one in that boat, lol.

ETA: Yeah, physical force with small dogs is potentially dangerous. I don't believe that force is more necessary for large dogs, but I do believe that it's more... excessive in small dogs. I had a trainer who told me that on every about turn (heeling) I needed to give my dog "three fast pops" to pull her forward around each point of the turn. I was like, "Wow really? I know you have a 90 lb Golden who tolerates that, but you do realize I am going to send my 22 lb corgi flying if I do that, right?" Never mind that I wasn't about to do with any dog, but still.

 

[~Jessie~]

However I must agree to accept these knee jerk reactions as "needed" or "something I use" isn't a good thing. Used? sure. Mistakes? definitely. To constantly strive to be better? I suppose that's all we can do.

Agreed.

If Rory is being a jerk and barking (that constant "sonic" barking that you can literally feel vibrate through you!) I take a deep breath and try to divert his attention to something else. I'll usually do the "zombie" (lol- I walk at him with my arms stretched out and say "Roooooorrrrryyyyy") and he'll run around and get quiet.

Screaming at him and grabbing his muzzle does nothing but make me feel BAD about it afterwards. I hated when it escalated to that point, because I could've directed him a different way.

 

[yoko]

If it is training and not a serious situation I honestly don't think hitting your dogs is warranted at all. It doesn't show that you know another training method it just shows you can't control your temper/frustration.

 

[Taqroy]

I've gotten in Rory's face before and grabbed his muzzle and screamed at him when I lost my temper (he'll bark over and over again and it ended up really getting to me one day)- I felt really bad, though, afterwards and wished I had calmed down instead of taking it out on him. He's a VERY hard dog so I'm sure it affected me more than it affected him.

I have the screaming bark problem with Tipper - only she's so soft that if you move toward her and you LOOK angry she shuts down. She hunkers down and flattens her ears and makes me feel like a monster. I have desensitized her (and the other two) to yelling so I mostly just yell at her now. Our convos go like this.

Me: Tipper, you're being really loud right now.
Tipper: BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK!
Me: You may not realize that you're barking - I know it's hard to tell between that and NOT making noise.
Tipper: BARK BARK BARK BARK BARK!
Me: PLEASE USE YOUR INSIDE VOICE OR STFU.

And then I throw toys at her or throw her outside. WIN. Lol.

 

[Kimbers]

I'm not going to lie, I give Kailey little leash pops all the time. She forgets we're walking together, so if I can't get her attention verbally, I gently pull the lead and release to remind her I'm there, too.
But there's a difference between Cesar Milan leash pops and a quick application of mild pressure on the lead.

 

[smkie]

Even the thread title makes me angry.
No..never. IF I had leash popped Pepper even one time I would have lost her trust for good. Not my way.