Have you ever heard the term HANG YOUR DOG???

[cindr]

Just wondering if any one has heard the term hang your dog? Or at that veiwed someone doing this? If so how would you deal with the situation and or the subject?

 

[otch1]

Yes, more commonly refered to as "stringing them up", a very old school correction for out of control or aggressive dogs. "Stringing them up", cutting off the air supply as they charge foward at the end of the lead, so that their front paws are off the ground and keeping them there until the lack of oxygen has them near a point of fainting. This leaves the dog quite docile in some instances, upon recovery... if done incorrectly, it also does extreme damage to the throat, can collapse a trachia, and cause permanent damage. Simply not a smart thing to do!!

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

Yep, I' ve heard it many times, its not as dramatic as people think. Imagine your dog just trying to attack a little child (could have left severe damage), attacked a dog for no reason, or tried to attack YOU (the owner). Agression is not something to play around with. Now if the dog just growls but doesnt act out then you can go back and desensitize him to whatever his problem is. But if the dog did attack but failed to accomplish its goal, for whatever reason, and tries again, he will get strung up on the spot, SORRY!!!! Some people, most people think its cruel, but my dogs breath isnt worth a child (the type of dogs I deal with are the dogs who will go all the way, not just get one bite in), and there is no way I would allow them to severely injure or kill a child or any person for that matter, but specifically children because they are helpless. Caza tried to attack me over something rediculous (dont remember) when I first got him, and though I didnt exactly string him up, I let it be known that that sh!t wasnt going to work with me. Never even thought of growling at me again. People say its cruel, whatever. Now I'm not saying you shoud go around doing this with any dog. Some dogs need a simple uh-uh to make them stop, but hard dogs like Caza need a wakeup call to let them know whatever they are doing is not going to work.

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

Yes, more commonly refered to as "stringing them up", a very old school correction for out of control or aggressive dogs. "Stringing them up", cutting off the air supply as they charge foward at the end of the lead, so that their front paws are off the ground and keeping them there until the lack of oxygen has them near a point of fainting. This leaves the dog quite docile in some instances, upon recovery... if done incorrectly, it also does extreme damage to the throat, can collapse a trachia, and cause permanent damage. Simply not a smart thing to do!![/QUOTE]


So its worth letting a child get severly injured or killed over, I dont think so, IMO. You attack a child you will suffer the consequence, my opinion.

 

[Angelique]

Old school Koehler method which involves lifting a dog completely off of the ground into midair and holding them there often until they pass out. Another harsh tactic I've heard of is "helicoptering", which involves lifting the dog completely off of the ground and swinging it around in a circle.

Both of these methods are different from lifting a dog's front end off of the ground to prevent or break off an attack upon the handler or another dog or person, and this should only be used in emergency situations. The dog should be let down immediately once the situation is under control.

 

[silverpawz]

If you have a dog that attacks children then you have a dangerous wepon. Either train the dog properly and stay away from kids all together, or have him put down. Stringing a dog up is not a magic cure for aggression. If you think it will be than you're probably setting yourself up for failure and for more bites down the road.

I've seen it done, my mentor used it for something as simple as teaching a dog to drop an item. Dog won't drop, choke him untill he must. Not something I enjoyed seeing, but I wasn't in a position to change her views either. I made it known that I wasn't happy about it, and that I wouldn't do it, but when you work for someone else there's not much else you can do.

I don't think Hanging has any place in training. Period.

 

[cindr]

Well! I will tell you about how I heard and seen Hang your dog!

I was 17 yrs old working my Doberman Dutch. Well the instructors held the training on our field. They asked my dad how much and Dad said nothing as long as my daughter is involved with the training.

Well the one day I was to let Dutch attack the agitator. Okay I go with the dog as I want to make sure that she does nothing wrong, So Dutch on leash and I run beside her. Well Dutch went too high and by passed the sleeve.

I simply checked her in and then walked back to the circle. Well if the second in command trainer Screams at me. HANG YOUR DOG!!!!!!!! HANG YOUR DOG!!!!!!! HANG YOUR DOG!!!!!! I looked at the instructor and stated 'NO I AM NOT GOING TO HANG MY DOG!!!!!!!! HE AGAIN YOODLED HANG YOUR DOG!!!!

I looked at this arogant and stupid man and said why should I hang my dog? He said because she did not do as she was told!!!!. I looked at him and stated in a mouthy way. Well yes she did. and I am not going to punish my dog for doing something that I asked her to do. It is not my fault that the agitator did not bring the sleeve up to catch the bite. So know I will not hang my dog.

Well the assistant trainer took his Bouvier out and sent the dog. The dog would by pass the sleeve and push the agitator down. then rip his ear off. I then yoodled HANG YOUR DOG!!!!!!!!!

These peoples form of hang your dog was this. Have the dog sit at your side. pick up leash right straight up. With a quick motion take two steps bring the dog up in the air to swing it around for two or more times totally choking it. Then drop the dog with a thump. How cruel is that. Sure I will use a correction and a heavy jerk if the dog is attacking out of contex. But I will be damed if I hang the dog.

 

[otch1]

Hello GSDlover... we meet again. The question asked by Cindr was a question she'd asked in referance to simply using hanging methods during training, as a training tool. Of course, all of us would stop a dog from attacking a child or another dog by restraining the dog to a point of discomfort should he continue foward or at you, on the lead. (Also, cutting the air supply off if the dog choses to lunge foward.) The key word being "IF" the dog chooses to lunge foward. He is then causing his own discomfort and correcting himself. Stringing them up is different. This is a continued motion with no release, placed very strategically on the dogs throat, bringing the dog completely off front paws and very little weight left on back paws and not releasing until the dog is almost at a point of unconsiousness. While this stops the dog from undesirable behavior in that moment, it does not teach him what he was supposed to do. In my years of working with severe aggression, "hanging" is something I've not had to use to keep a dog from reaching it's intended target. There's a reason the beginning schutzhund dog is by passing the sleeve. This is a handler error. In a general training lesson, hanging is not reccommended. I believe because I know Cindr owns gsds' and a dobie, has sold to police dept, ect... I assumed she meant "should this method be used while training", verses to prevent a child from being attacked. I think we'll all agree, that you do what you need to do to prevent that from happening... Cindrs' question was in a different context. Can we agree on that?

 

[J's crew]

Yep, I' ve heard it many times, its not as dramatic as people think. Imagine your dog just trying to attack a little child (could have left severe damage), attacked a dog for no reason, or tried to attack YOU (the owner). Agression is not something to play around with. Now if the dog just growls but doesnt act out then you can go back and desensitize him to whatever his problem is. But if the dog did attack but failed to accomplish its goal, for whatever reason, and tries again, he will get strung up on the spot, SORRY!!!! Some people, most people think its cruel, but my dogs breath isnt worth a child (the type of dogs I deal with are the dogs who will go all the way, not just get one bite in), and there is no way I would allow them to severely injure or kill a child or any person for that matter, but specifically children because they are helpless. Caza tried to attack me over something rediculous (dont remember) when I first got him, and though I didnt exactly string him up, I let it be known that that sh!t wasnt going to work with me. Never even thought of growling at me again. People say its cruel, whatever. Now I'm not saying you shoud go around doing this with any dog. Some dogs need a simple uh-uh to make them stop, but hard dogs like Caza need a wakeup call to let them know whatever they are doing is not going to work.

My personal or rescue dogs learn just fine without involving cruelty.

If I have the type of dog you are describing I simply keep them away from children. Not all dogs are good with kids.

 

[oc_spirit]

I dunno how well this would work with my guys....I mean when taking them from their tie up spot to hitch to the sled normally they are hopping on their back two legs with their feet in the air anyways and they dont get choked....LOL

 

[dr2little]

Honestly....are we really having to even discuss this??? I'm shocked that in this day and age where we know that these inhumane and ignorance based tactics are not only ineffective but counterproductive, we're even having to explain the "WHY NOT'S"..

Of course any of us, trainers and dog owners alike would do what ever was necessary to stop an attack on a child. Comparing the archaic, ego driven and misguided practice of "stringing or hanging" your dog in the name of training, to stopping an attack is just crazy.

Again, anyone who would justify this practice in any form of training, aggression included, is obviously lacking the proper skill and personal control to address the problem correctly. I'm still amazed to hear terms like "hard dog" like any trainer on here has somehow never met such a specimen.
Absolute nonsense.

I'd LOVE to have you follow me through a regular week of private training GSD, so that you can see that dogs who would likely make even you shudder
are not treated this way to achieve positive results FOR A REASON.

You know GSD, I don't dislike you AT ALL. You know that I have a huge problem with many of your training "theories" and practices but I honestly believe that someone you respect has convinced you that this kind of treatment is justifyed. I'm sure that as you grow and learn, you too will be one day giving yourself the old "could have had a V8 head smack"....you just need to see the proof for yourself.

I do hope that you will give the "other side" of training a look see.... you may just change your mind - before someone (you or one of your dogs) is badly hurt.

 

[Muggie'sMum]

I don't have a lot of experience with inflicting pain on dogs in training but my philosophy with horses, which I DO train is that since they are our partners and we are solely responsible for their wellbeing, why would we hurt them for not understanding or cooperating.

You wouldn't beat or otherwise use methods to physically harm your husband or wife if they were not cooperating with you, did not understand what you were asking for, or made a mistake. And so, especially since a horse is so much larger/more powerful than me, I have developed a means to train with insistent "ASKING", not telling, and that creates a better, more willing mind and personality and I don't have to deal with the guilt of knowing that I physically harmed a being and inflicted pain because our lines of communication were jumbled. I assume it would be the same with a dog.

I can understand going to extremes to diffuse a situation that had already gotten out of hand (for example, our neighbor's two year old American Bulldog attacking my then-six month old great dane pup - my cousin did not want to try to lay his hands on Dallas (the AB) to pull him off and did kick him to distract him), but I cannot justify using a method of inflicting pain in a regular everyday training situation.

 

[cindr]

Hello GSDlover... we meet again. The question asked by Cindr was a question she'd asked in referance to simply using hanging methods during training, as a training tool. Of course, all of us would stop a dog from attacking a child or another dog by restraining the dog to a point of discomfort should he continue foward or at you, on the lead. (Also, cutting the air supply off if the dog choses to lunge foward.) The key word being "IF" the dog chooses to lunge foward. He is then causing his own discomfort and correcting himself. Stringing them up is different. This is a continued motion with no release, placed very strategically on the dogs throat, bringing the dog completely off front paws and very little weight left on back paws and not releasing until the dog is almost at a point of unconsiousness. While this stops the dog from undesirable behavior in that moment, it does not teach him what he was supposed to do. In my years of working with severe aggression, "hanging" is something I've not had to use to keep a dog from reaching it's intended target. There's a reason the beginning schutzhund dog is by passing the sleeve. This is a handler error. In a general training lesson, hanging is not reccommended. I believe because I know Cindr owns gsds' and a dobie, has sold to police dept, ect... I assumed she meant "should this method be used while training", verses to prevent a child from being attacked. I think we'll all agree, that you do what you need to do to prevent that from happening... Cindrs' question was in a different context. Can we agree on that?

Well put and I aggree 100 % thanx for assisting. Cindr

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

First of all I was NOT reffering to my dogs, I gave one example of my dog Caza and that involved him trying to bite me when i first got him. He is indefferent to children and adults, as are all my dogs. I have seen dogs bite children and get away with it. One time in my aunts training class this dog (big dog) just outright bit this little girl and went in for another bite, while the owner just stood there saying, "no, Max stop, please stop", WTF??? This dog was practically ATTACKING this little girl for no reason and the owner did nothing. You better believe if that was my dog he would have been hurt. You hurt a little child, I hurt you simple as that. I'm surprised that people would allow this to happen and do nothing. Are you people honestly telling me that you would sit around and do NOTHING if your dog had a serious agreeion problem and a person's life and well-being was at risk.

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

Honestly....are we really having to even discuss this??? I'm shocked that in this day and age where we know that these inhumane and ignorance based tactics are not only ineffective but counterproductive, we're even having to explain the "WHY NOT'S"..

Of course any of us, trainers and dog owners alike would do what ever was necessary to stop an attack on a child. Comparing the archaic, ego driven and misguided practice of "stringing or hanging" your dog in the name of training, to stopping an attack is just crazy.

Again, anyone who would justify this practice in any form of training, aggression included, is obviously lacking the proper skill and personal control to address the problem correctly. I'm still amazed to hear terms like "hard dog" like any trainer on here has somehow never met such a specimen.
Absolute nonsense.

I'd LOVE to have you follow me through a regular week of private training GSD, so that you can see that dogs who would likely make even you shudder
are not treated this way to achieve positive results FOR A REASON.

You know GSD, I don't dislike you AT ALL. You know that I have a huge problem with many of your training "theories" and practices but I honestly believe that someone you respect has convinced you that this kind of treatment is justifyed. I'm sure that as you grow and learn, you too will be one day giving yourself the old "could have had a V8 head smack"....you just need to see the proof for yourself.

I do hope that you will give the "other side" of training a look see.... you may just change your mind - before someone (you or one of your dogs) is badly hurt.

[mod edit. personal attacks disallowed] Honestly, I'm not trying to be a smart-ass. Your way is NOT the only way, when will you realize this. You cannot go around saying everyone who doesnt agree with you is incompatent, know- nothing, ignorant barbarians. There are MANY AMAZING trainers out there who DO believe in corrections, and their methods work, as well as yours. I never doubted your methods, but there are some things I dont agree with but you dont see me calling you an ignorant, tree-hugger.

I wish YOU could follow me around for a day, or week, and I'm sure you would see some differences between these dogs and yours.

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

I don't have a lot of experience with inflicting pain on dogs in training but my philosophy with horses, which I DO train is that since they are our partners and we are solely responsible for their wellbeing, why would we hurt them for not understanding or cooperating.

You wouldn't beat or otherwise use methods to physically harm your husband or wife if they were not cooperating with you, did not understand what you were asking for, or made a mistake. And so, especially since a horse is so much larger/more powerful than me, I have developed a means to train with insistent "ASKING", not telling, and that creates a better, more willing mind and personality and I don't have to deal with the guilt of knowing that I physically harmed a being and inflicted pain because our lines of communication were jumbled. I assume it would be the same with a dog.

I can understand going to extremes to diffuse a situation that had already gotten out of hand (for example, our neighbor's two year old American Bulldog attacking my then-six month old great dane pup - my cousin did not want to try to lay his hands on Dallas (the AB) to pull him off and did kick him to distract him), but I cannot justify using a method of inflicting pain in a regular everyday training situation.

Oh yeah, I'm going to say to my dog "Honey, I really dont appreciate it when you growl, please dont do it again", yeah that will work. Horses are different animals, they comprehend things differently than dogs.

PS, My concious (sp) is clear.

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

My personal or rescue dogs learn just fine without involving cruelty.

If I have the type of dog you are describing I simply keep them away from children. Not all dogs are good with kids.

LOL, I'm so cruel, MWAH, MWAH, MWAHAHA, lol.

I though I'll meet your sarcasm with some of my own.

 

[Poppy]

I have seen dogs bite children and get away with it. One time in my aunts training class this dog (big dog) just outright bit this little girl and went in for another bite, while the owner just stood there saying, "no, Max stop, please stop", WTF??? This dog was practically ATTACKING this little girl for no reason and the owner did nothing.

I normally never come on the training board. But, this caught my attention. First I work with dogs on a daily basis, I have never seen a dog attack or bite a child. Dogs that are deemed a danger or unsocial are not taken around children or other animals until they have been positively rehabilitated.

GSDlover_4ever, is your Aunt still conducting training classes? if so she should be reported for allowing dangerous actions to take place. A trainer who knows dogs can judge the owner and dog and evaluate them and do not allow children in a training class. This is a disgraceful show of ignorance and a poor instructor.

For dogs that have "issues" "predatory drift" "not social" it's up to the trainer to work with the owner and dog. It's amazing the results a person will see with positive only training. Plus, a dog trained and socialized in a positive manner will be much more reliable than a dog trained with force.

Aggression begot aggression.

 

[cindr]

First of all I was NOT reffering to my dogs, I gave one example of my dog Caza and that involved him trying to bite me when i first got him. He is indefferent to children and adults, as are all my dogs. I have seen dogs bite children and get away with it. One time in my aunts training class this dog (big dog) just outright bit this little girl and went in for another bite, while the owner just stood there saying, "no, Max stop, please stop", WTF??? This dog was practically ATTACKING this little girl for no reason and the owner did nothing. You better believe if that was my dog he would have been hurt. You hurt a little child, I hurt you simple as that. I'm surprised that people would allow this to happen and do nothing. Are you people honestly telling me that you would sit around and do NOTHING if your dog had a serious agreeion problem and a person's life and well-being was at risk.

No. No no no one is saying that. Be assured the dog would be corrected. In a very positive corrective fashion. No need to hang the dog. I as a trainer would be ready for all and every issue and be assured the dog would be set up. Now what would I mean by set up? Well I would put the dog in a position where I or the owner was ready for the inevidable. So by doing so you have the oportunity to correct puppy or doggie correctly.

There was a horse guy that lived down the street from me. he had the meanest dog ever. This dog had biten well over 6 people and my son would be the 7th person. He the owner was instructed that if the dog were to bite again he was going to be destroyed.

Well I went over to talk to the owner, I knew the dogs back ground was out of top czech breeding. So I was interested in working with the dog. the owner said good luck getting near him! Well, I went over to his house the next day and Tex was on his chain. Okay Tex being as aggressive as he was know to be I would walk up and talk to him. Now I had my glove out as it was winter at the time. I took it off and went to hand it to the dog to sniff. Wham he nails the glove and takes off with it. Aggressively I am assured.

Well now I stand back and wait for his reaction. He is now not throwing it and growling at it any more. he has stopped and let the glove drop. He now is sniffing it. He then picks it up and looks at me with true kindess in his eyes and a wagging tail.

Okay Tex you can keep the glove. I left and walked over the next day. Well now Tex was in his huge indoor kennel. I told the owner that I was going to see Tex. He said be careful. Hey no problem.

Okay I just stand on the other side of the kennel just talking to him as he growled at me. Then I gave him the other glove. Oh okay its you.
Now I would go over to his place two days latter with my dog Zeita. A female you will be assured. He now has a differant attitude all together. I then walk up to the dog and gently open his kennel door. I then begin to pat his head. Hum no aggression what so ever.

Okay I leave and go back two days latter, this time with a few hot dogs and a doggie brush. I opened the kennel door and walked right in. Tex did not know what to think of and or make of me. He just walked aggressively arround and growled. Oh well he'll get over it. Now I am sitting on the floor of the kennel and the dog is laying on top of me. I am brushing him and loving him up. This is what the poor soul needed was some compasion.

Well anyhow the owner would come over and ask me to take care of Tex for two weeks. I said no problem. The owner road his horse the next day with Tex following. Tex came right over to me and sat beside me as if to say its okay you can go now. This guy just about dropped his cookies. He said you best watch him around your kids he'll nail them. I said nope he won't.

Off went the rider and Tex and I had 2 weeks to work out his bugs. Well that I did. He sure did not like kids at all. He went to bite my daughter 4 yrs old. Tex was right beside me and I caught him by colar and gave him a quick snap and said No. The dog headed the correction and with that we went out and played a little foot ball. Aggression and attacking all laid aside. Doggie had no proper structure and up bringing and just need to realise that some one did care and did truly love him enough to help him. So yes we all need to correct the bad behavior but need to find out why it is there and work out the bugs in a true fashion Love

 

[silverpawz]

There are MANY AMAZING trainers out there who DO believe in corrections

Hanging a dog is not a 'correction', it's harsh treatment plain and simple. Of course anyone would do whatever needed to prevent a dog from attacking a human, child or not. In a situation like that instinct takes over and we just do what is needed.

However, hanging is not a form of 'training'.