Have you ever heard the term HANG YOUR DOG???

[dr2little]

Actually I am not her "student". I learn from ALL my trainers in my life and I pull out what works for me. My aunt is very soft on her pet dogs. For her obedience classes she uses nothing but motivation. But I see the behind the scenes, living with her. SHe corrects HER dogs, and doesnt put that out in the public. No one knows how we handle our dogs, because they are different. They would take advantage of us, and most of our dogs have alpha personalities (thats why her males are never together). I really do wish you guys could see what I am talking about, but you've seen ALL the dogs in the world, right?? .

Tell me Dr2little, why in the world a hardass working, personal protection, hardcore working dog is in a pet home, and they attend your class for assistance for their PETS? Any person who has a working dog should have some experience with training. I just dont understand how a responsible working dog breeder would place a real working dog in a pet home. And if they are irresponsible then their dogs probably are not even hardcore working dogs.

PS: Fear biters dont count as "hard".

Who said anything about these dogs being in class. The majority of my work is private training and a great deal of that is for aggression. By the way, fear biters are about the hardest dogs to work with, but that is not the only issue I encounter. What makes you think that you, at your age and life experience, have seen more than many of us who have been training dogs for decades, have been in the schutz world, and have worked dogs from many different backgrounds, issues and environments.

I think that again GSD, you'd serve yourself better to read the background posts, at the very least to read the posts that you are replying to.
It's clear that you don't know anything about what I do....what would make you think that I work only with PETS (although I love this part of my job) or that I would be working with severe cases in a class setting?

Even the GROWL class that I teach is extremely controlled, small in numbers and only attended by dogs who have FIRST had private work in order for them to be accepted.

 

[sam]

The sad fact seems to be that some people really get off on dominating someone or something and dogs are one of the few things you can do that with and not be arrested or in some sort of trouble. Some people don't want to teach and train a dog, they want to 'show it who is boss'. They eat up d dominance theory / pack theory rhetoric no matter that has been proven to be outdated and based on myth. They will never look at better, proven methods. They don't want to be kind and gentle-- they ENJOY what they do. They are PROUD of it. It makes them tough, cool and strong in their minds even though it is a huge display of ignorance, weakness and abuse to the rest of us.

 

[Doberluv]

Well said.

 

[dr2little]

The sad fact seems to be that some people really get off on dominating someone or something and dogs are one of the few things you can do that with and not be arrested or in some sort of trouble. Some people don't want to teach and train a dog, they want to 'show it who is boss'. They eat up d dominance theory / pack theory rhetoric no matter that has been proven to be outdated and based on myth. They will never look at better, proven methods. They don't want to be kind and gentle-- they ENJOY what they do. They are PROUD of it. It makes them tough, cool and strong in their minds even though it is a huge display of ignorance, weakness and abuse to the rest of us.

yup, yup, and YUP!!!:hail:

 

[silverpawz]

How did this turn into a five pages thread??
Hanging a dog is not training. Not sure how anyone can even dispute that.

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

Who said anything about these dogs being in class. The majority of my work is private training and a great deal of that is for aggression. By the way, fear biters are about the hardest dogs to work with, but that is not the only issue I encounter. What makes you think that you, at your age and life experience, have seen more than many of us who have been training dogs for decades, have been in the schutz world, and have worked dogs from many different backgrounds, issues and environments.

I think that again GSD, you'd serve yourself better to read the background posts, at the very least to read the posts that you are replying to.
It's clear that you don't know anything about what I do....what would make you think that I work only with PETS (although I love this part of my job) or that I would be working with severe cases in a class setting?

Even the GROWL class that I teach is extremely controlled, small in numbers and only attended by dogs who have FIRST had private work in order for them to be accepted.

LOL, I never said fear biters where easy to deal with, but they are not hard dogs. Apparently if they bite you they are uncomfortable and insecure, definately not what I consider hard. Take your fear biters add confidence, knowledge of bitework, and self determination to that dog and you have a totally different issue if the dog decides to bite.

You kow its funny, people say "you dont know me", but you guys are so quick to bring up my age. YOU dont know me or how much experience I've had, what trainers I know, or what I do with my dogs. SO before you say "dont judge me", think about it long and hard and take your own advice.

 

[GSDlover_4ever]

The sad fact seems to be that some people really get off on dominating someone or something and dogs are one of the few things you can do that with and not be arrested or in some sort of trouble. Some people don't want to teach and train a dog, they want to 'show it who is boss'. They eat up d dominance theory / pack theory rhetoric no matter that has been proven to be outdated and based on myth. They will never look at better, proven methods. They don't want to be kind and gentle-- they ENJOY what they do. They are PROUD of it. It makes them tough, cool and strong in their minds even though it is a huge display of ignorance, weakness and abuse to the rest of us.

LOL, you people are so childish, and you bring up MY age?? PUH-LEASE .

 

[moxiegrl]

How old are you?

Oh and hanging a dog up is NOT a method of training. Pulling your dog off a person its trying to attack is common sense.

 

[RD]

GSD, what I don't think you realize is "positive" does not mean "permissive".

If my dog knocked a screw loose and went absolutely apeshit over a person or another dog, and wouldn't give up on attacking as long as those front feet were on the ground, then yes I would "hang" my dog in order to stop the attack. I would never hang my dog in order to "train" it NOT to attack.

There is a huge difference between prevention and control. Think of cancer, for a completely irrelevant example. If you take small measures to prevent and check for cancer, you can avoid painful treatment and surgery. If you do nothing your entire life and ignore cancer until it becomes blatantly obvious, you will either die or have to endure a LOT of pain in order to survive. The same, IMO, goes for aggression. Training your dog to be polite around people, other dogs, children etc. takes some time and effort, but in doing so, you will decrease your chances of ever having to string your dog up in an attempt to control him.

You say that those of us who are positive trainers are basically wimps - mhm. I'm a wuss - that's why I was able to stop a massive wolf mix from knocking me down and chewing on me. It's not all about treats and sweet talk. I don't know a single trainer that would allow a dog to maul them because they didn't want to hurt it by pulling it off. If my dog EVER turned and attacked me, he'd be on the ground and restrained before he knew what hit him. Not because I intend to "train" him that way, but because that's my "defense drive" kicking in. If I hurt a dog while trying to defend myself, tough. But, I now have learned a little bit about how to act around highly aggressive dogs. I can see the signs of a dog that's ready to attack, and act accordingly.

I've put a lot of training into my dog, teaching him not to bite me. He's never attempted it in a normal setting (only once has he bit me since he was a pup, and it was because he was in extreme pain) but I wanted to take precautions anyway. Now, no matter how agitated, excited or angry my dog is, he won't lay a tooth on me. If he's frustrated with me, he'll find a toy and shake the living crap out of it until he's calm again. This is just preventative measures, so I can AVOID having to handle him harshly in order to control him.

 

[cindr]

I am going to say this and then I am done with this thread.

I purchased a male gsd from a Police Service many moons ago. This dogs ob was simply lacking and he would forge. I personally do not know what type of Officer trained him but he was sloppy. Now with sent tracks and narcotic's awesome.

Well anyhow Brix was a simple a hole. He was handler aggressive and he sure would take around out of you if he had too. Well our first day together was just that. He double hockey sticks. Well Brix was a sleep in my front room, my son Jeramy was 4 yrs old and just came home. Hey mom doggie. And leaped right on top of that dog. With in seconds Brix flipped my kid over and went for his neck. I walked over to the dog, I picked him up by the gowls. Both sides so now his attention was on me. Teeth and all. Well I then backe him into the wall, And said me or you buddy, I got the dog into a sit and then released. No hanging no abuse, Just simple hey buddy you watch your self. Session done. Well anyhow this dog never tried the kid again.

Now was it the dogs fault not at all it was the kids. Although the dog needed to be corrected. So yeah I really thought we could get a bit of heads up on the positive of training and not get agitated by this thread. I think that everyone has their veiws on training and that is fair. Although it is about being open minded when training. I know if some one would attempt to choke me I would return the favor. So I will state this you get better results with hunny than you do with vinager

 

[dr2little]

LOL, I never said fear biters where easy to deal with, but they are not hard dogs. Apparently if they bite you they are uncomfortable and insecure, definately not what I consider hard. Take your fear biters add confidence, knowledge of bitework, and self determination to that dog and you have a totally different issue if the dog decides to bite.

You kow its funny, people say "you dont know me", but you guys are so quick to bring up my age. YOU dont know me or how much experience I've had, what trainers I know, or what I do with my dogs. SO before you say "dont judge me", think about it long and hard and take your own advice.

You know GSDlover, I'm not going to get into it with you. I think that you know how I and others feel about abuse in the name of training. There is no justifiable reason to hang a dog in any training scenario...NOT ONE! Thowing in reasons like "what if he was attacking a child" just bring to light that grasping at the obserd.. doesn't a point make.
I'm not sure why you keep insisting that no one knows the kind of hard dog that you know...unless your dogs were bred on another planet, I think you realize that just doesn't make any sense.

As for your age, I'm sorry that you don't understand that a life lived 17 years (less years than many trainers on this board have been doing this for a living) can hardly have enough experience to validate poor training judgement. What I've read in your past posts and continue to read in current posts can not be ignored. This is a public forum and you are entitled to your opinions but before you put them out there, be prepared to have them challenged by those of us who have a genuine awareness for the consequences of those "opinions". We are all judged by what we choose to put out there.

 

[Muggie'sMum]

The sad fact seems to be that some people really get off on dominating someone or something and dogs are one of the few things you can do that with and not be arrested or in some sort of trouble. Some people don't want to teach and train a dog, they want to 'show it who is boss'. They eat up d dominance theory / pack theory rhetoric no matter that has been proven to be outdated and based on myth. They will never look at better, proven methods. They don't want to be kind and gentle-- they ENJOY what they do. They are PROUD of it. It makes them tough, cool and strong in their minds even though it is a huge display of ignorance, weakness and abuse to the rest of us.

You see it in horses, too. Why someone would want to physically intimidate and belittle a 1200lb+ animal that could concievably KILL you is beyond me.

That's exactly what I was talking about. I especially find on message boards, where it is anonymous, some people love to come on and talk about the ways that they dominate their animals.

 

[cindr]

You see it in horses, too. Why someone would want to physically intimidate and belittle a 1200lb+ animal that could concievably KILL you is beyond me.

That's exactly what I was talking about. I especially find on message boards, where it is anonymous, some people love to come on and talk about the ways that they dominate their animals.

True so very true; I have had horses all of my life. These too are so miss understood. I purchased a horse named Flash 4 yrs ago. The owner had just rescued her from a bad owner. He told me to be carefull she can get freaky around the barrels. That she had been rammed and pulled and yanked by the previous owners so when she is near them (barrels ) she will rear.

So I try the poor old girl in the indoor arena, Jeff says watch your hands. Bang I relaxed them and off the mare and I would go. So, I ride her in the front arena near the barrels. Jeff is worried. Well this old mare and I just got along no problem. She worked wonderful with light presures and soft hands. Jeff could not beleive that I had even put her around the barrelss at a slow trot with not a ounce of trouble.

So yeah you are so right soft gentle and confidence is what makes a dog or horse want to work for you. Harsh miss treatment only makes for attitudes to get up and injuries to happen. Either in the animals or at that the human. So as stated no reason to be ignorant to the animal just find out what makes them tick and you have won the battle