getadamnjobyouhippie.org
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You are right. You are. Its not a good thing to laugh at the people who REALLY did things right and ended up on the bad end. Sadly, with what is going on right now those people look like a minority. PLUS, the 'protestors' do themselves zero good doing this the way they are.
What do we do about it? This seems to be the big question with no easy answers.
What do we do about it? This seems to be the big question with no easy answers.
This.
I do have sympathy for people who have genuinely fallen on hard times despite their best laid plans.
I, however, don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the person that pays $100,000 for a degree in philosophy and now they are pissed off because there isn't some big job with a big paycheck begging them to come work there with their philosophy degree.
I do wish there was a bigger sense of community these days. There was a time when people would fall on hard times and their neighbors would step up and help anyway they could. Now I think there is just this expectation that the government will take care of us so no need to help anyone. Seems most people don't even KNOW their neighbors anymore
DOH I just saw the earlier edit lol
I do have sympathy for people who have genuinely fallen on hard times despite their best laid plans.
I, however, don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the person that pays $100,000 for a degree in philosophy and now they are pissed off because there isn't some big job with a big paycheck begging them to come work there with their philosophy degree.
I do wish there was a bigger sense of community these days. There was a time when people would fall on hard times and their neighbors would step up and help anyway they could. Now I think there is just this expectation that the government will take care of us so no need to help anyone. Seems most people don't even KNOW their neighbors anymore
DOH I just saw the earlier edit lol
Unless they went all the way to PhD, I don't think there are many folks about there with a $100,000 philosophy degree. Undergrad degrees generally don't run that much. $100,000 law degree, yes. Easily.
That said, I'm beginning to get very annoyed with the whole "useless" degree thing. I have one "useless" undergrad degree, one "useful" trade school degree, and I actually work using a third "professional" degree. I learned very valuable things with all of them, and all of them were worth my time, despite the fact that I only "use" one of them.
Yes, people should not be required to get a liberal arts degree to do any old job. If you get a degree in philosophy, you are probably pretty unrealistic to think you are going to be working in philosophy unless you are both brilliant and lucky. But it doesn't make that degree useless. A degree in the humanities and the social sciences (at least from a school were it is worth getting such a degree) not only teaches you about that topic (and thus broadens your horizons) but it also teaches advanced reading, research, critical thinking, and writing skills, all while learning about something that interests you. And if you've ever been forced to take a class in "writing" or "critical thinking" (see that trade school degree?) believe you me, the religious studies ("useless" degree) classes that indirectly taught the same thing were a) much more interesting and b) just as good at teaching those skills by using them. Frankly, anyone with a social science or humanities degree with decent grades from a good school, is perfectly competent to do most desk jobs with a bit of training, which they'll need no matter what.
I'll say this . . . I'd far rather hire a kid with a "useless" degree to be a lawyer or a paralegal or even a secretary, than someone who did pre-law, or went to "paralegal school" or "secretary school." Not because I take pity on them, but because I'm more likely to get someone who is creative, smart, curious and well-rounded. And that's a heck of a lot more valuable in the long run than someone with certain mechanical skills that can be taught fairly easily.
That said, I'm beginning to get very annoyed with the whole "useless" degree thing. I have one "useless" undergrad degree, one "useful" trade school degree, and I actually work using a third "professional" degree. I learned very valuable things with all of them, and all of them were worth my time, despite the fact that I only "use" one of them.
Yes, people should not be required to get a liberal arts degree to do any old job. If you get a degree in philosophy, you are probably pretty unrealistic to think you are going to be working in philosophy unless you are both brilliant and lucky. But it doesn't make that degree useless. A degree in the humanities and the social sciences (at least from a school were it is worth getting such a degree) not only teaches you about that topic (and thus broadens your horizons) but it also teaches advanced reading, research, critical thinking, and writing skills, all while learning about something that interests you. And if you've ever been forced to take a class in "writing" or "critical thinking" (see that trade school degree?) believe you me, the religious studies ("useless" degree) classes that indirectly taught the same thing were a) much more interesting and b) just as good at teaching those skills by using them. Frankly, anyone with a social science or humanities degree with decent grades from a good school, is perfectly competent to do most desk jobs with a bit of training, which they'll need no matter what.
I'll say this . . . I'd far rather hire a kid with a "useless" degree to be a lawyer or a paralegal or even a secretary, than someone who did pre-law, or went to "paralegal school" or "secretary school." Not because I take pity on them, but because I'm more likely to get someone who is creative, smart, curious and well-rounded. And that's a heck of a lot more valuable in the long run than someone with certain mechanical skills that can be taught fairly easily.
Hey if people want to go to school for philosophy or whatever else for the learning experience... good for them. But don't look to me to pay your bills because you got a degree in something that isn't going to lend very well to supporting yourself later.
My sister got a degree in early childhood education. does she work in ECE? nope... she works for the post office lol and makes more money there than she did when she worked at a school. I get that not every degree lends itself to a job but when you get a degree that isn't likely to get you a job and then you have all your school bills to pay off with no job ... then you have a problem. there are some degrees where you SHOULD be able to find a job... with the market the way it is now that's just not possible... BUT when you get a degree that doesn't really have many job opportunities attached to it well... you need to be prepared to not have a job and not be surprised when people aren't knocking down your door for a philosophy job.
Education and knowledge are wonderful things but people shouldnt' be surprised when certain degrees don't lend themselves well to working in the real world. if you still want to get that degree then more power to you but I really don't feel sorry for someone who gets a degree that doesn't lend themselves to a career. Again don't get me wrong... I don't have a special degree that opens up much opportunity for a career. I dont' begrudge people who don't have a degree or anything like that. I AM one of those people... but I also don't expect anyone to just give it to me and I don't expect others to pay for it. I don't stomp my feet because the world isn't fair and there are people that are richer than I am.
My sister got a degree in early childhood education. does she work in ECE? nope... she works for the post office lol and makes more money there than she did when she worked at a school. I get that not every degree lends itself to a job but when you get a degree that isn't likely to get you a job and then you have all your school bills to pay off with no job ... then you have a problem. there are some degrees where you SHOULD be able to find a job... with the market the way it is now that's just not possible... BUT when you get a degree that doesn't really have many job opportunities attached to it well... you need to be prepared to not have a job and not be surprised when people aren't knocking down your door for a philosophy job.
Education and knowledge are wonderful things but people shouldnt' be surprised when certain degrees don't lend themselves well to working in the real world. if you still want to get that degree then more power to you but I really don't feel sorry for someone who gets a degree that doesn't lend themselves to a career. Again don't get me wrong... I don't have a special degree that opens up much opportunity for a career. I dont' begrudge people who don't have a degree or anything like that. I AM one of those people... but I also don't expect anyone to just give it to me and I don't expect others to pay for it. I don't stomp my feet because the world isn't fair and there are people that are richer than I am.
The point I'm trying to make is that many so called "useless" degrees DO give you job skills, and may actually prepare you better to excel than a so-called useful degree. Because they teach you generally applicable skills, AND make you a more rounded, educated person.
There are several separate issues here:
1) The idea that everyone HAS to have a 2 or 4 year degree, let alone a liberal arts degree, to be employable is driving a lot of people who do not really WANT further education and thus aren't going to benefit from it to rack up debt and waste time. If you aren't a student, if you do not want to LEARN, do yourself and everyone else a favor and go to a trade school. Or apprentice to a plumber. Save everyone some pain and do not major in the social sciences or the humanities and whine and sleep through class.
2) I've taken social science classes at a local college (while I was in high school) and I've taken them at two very good universities. Majoring in philosophy at the local community college IS a waste . .. because they teach at a low level . . . memorizing the opinions of philosophers (or points of religious doctrine) and taking multiple choice tests is useless (includng if you want to be a philosopher, I might add) But taking it at a good school (I'm speaking here about anthropology and religious studies . . . I've never actually taken a philosophy class) is a way to practice vital skills in reading, writing, analysis, critical thinking, etc . . skills that people who are going to work in information economy jobs must have. It doesn't matter if you got those skills as an English major, a Philosophy major, and Anthropology major, or as a Vital Information Age Skills major. Except that the person who majored in English, Philosophy or Anthropology learned something ELSE too, something about our society, or about the world, or about themselves. God help us all if everyone who isn't rich is forced to only learn "useful" skills, because everyone automatically assumes that being a philosophy major means all you can do is philosophize. I call absolute, and total B.S. on that, at least if they attended a good school. I did not learn the skills that landed me a job at a high-ranked law firm in law school . . . I learned those basic skills as a religious studies major, in my "useless" degree. I learned a lot of other things as well. And I am VERY glad I did not major in "pre-law."
3) We do need to stop telling kids who major in these things that they can become philosophers, or scholars of religion, or anthropologists. They can't. Moreover, most of them don't actually WANT to when they find out what is involved. They are at college to become educated and to learn useful skills . . . and to do so within a program that teaches them something interesting at the same time. They are there to become educated adults . . . who have focused on some course of study that interests them. They are not there, by and large, to become philosophers.
4) I hate focused degrees that teach someone to do something specific and nothing else. Yes, there are times when that is useful. But by and large, an 18 year old isn't going to be able to know either what they want to do, or what will be in demand, 4 years later. Unless they are going into a technical field, they need general skills that can be used in any job. Golf course management should not be a major . . . business management is (although I feel much the same about a lot of business degrees as I do about pre-law . . . )
There are several separate issues here:
1) The idea that everyone HAS to have a 2 or 4 year degree, let alone a liberal arts degree, to be employable is driving a lot of people who do not really WANT further education and thus aren't going to benefit from it to rack up debt and waste time. If you aren't a student, if you do not want to LEARN, do yourself and everyone else a favor and go to a trade school. Or apprentice to a plumber. Save everyone some pain and do not major in the social sciences or the humanities and whine and sleep through class.
2) I've taken social science classes at a local college (while I was in high school) and I've taken them at two very good universities. Majoring in philosophy at the local community college IS a waste . .. because they teach at a low level . . . memorizing the opinions of philosophers (or points of religious doctrine) and taking multiple choice tests is useless (includng if you want to be a philosopher, I might add) But taking it at a good school (I'm speaking here about anthropology and religious studies . . . I've never actually taken a philosophy class) is a way to practice vital skills in reading, writing, analysis, critical thinking, etc . . skills that people who are going to work in information economy jobs must have. It doesn't matter if you got those skills as an English major, a Philosophy major, and Anthropology major, or as a Vital Information Age Skills major. Except that the person who majored in English, Philosophy or Anthropology learned something ELSE too, something about our society, or about the world, or about themselves. God help us all if everyone who isn't rich is forced to only learn "useful" skills, because everyone automatically assumes that being a philosophy major means all you can do is philosophize. I call absolute, and total B.S. on that, at least if they attended a good school. I did not learn the skills that landed me a job at a high-ranked law firm in law school . . . I learned those basic skills as a religious studies major, in my "useless" degree. I learned a lot of other things as well. And I am VERY glad I did not major in "pre-law."
3) We do need to stop telling kids who major in these things that they can become philosophers, or scholars of religion, or anthropologists. They can't. Moreover, most of them don't actually WANT to when they find out what is involved. They are at college to become educated and to learn useful skills . . . and to do so within a program that teaches them something interesting at the same time. They are there to become educated adults . . . who have focused on some course of study that interests them. They are not there, by and large, to become philosophers.
4) I hate focused degrees that teach someone to do something specific and nothing else. Yes, there are times when that is useful. But by and large, an 18 year old isn't going to be able to know either what they want to do, or what will be in demand, 4 years later. Unless they are going into a technical field, they need general skills that can be used in any job. Golf course management should not be a major . . . business management is (although I feel much the same about a lot of business degrees as I do about pre-law . . . )
Lil, that's exactly what my degree does for me. I have a BS in English/Creative Writing. Could I make a living as an author? Probably, if I happened to come up with *that* story/series that hits the market at *that* perfect time (see: Stephanie Meyer) or come up with a good formula model that appeals to a wide market (see: John Grisham/Tom Clancy/any successful bodice-ripper author).
However, my degree better serves me in that it widened my horizons, gave me a better grasp/concept of critical thinking and a host of other general application skills. Essentially, I went for the experience and trusted that I would figure out how to apply that experience in the real world.
However, my degree better serves me in that it widened my horizons, gave me a better grasp/concept of critical thinking and a host of other general application skills. Essentially, I went for the experience and trusted that I would figure out how to apply that experience in the real world.
and that's great as long as you aren't standing there with your hand out waiting for someone else to pay your bills for you because you didn't get the 6 figure job you were expecting to be offered to you the moment you stepped out of school (general you)
it sucks that we live in a time where jobs look at a resume and don't see a degree they think is important and pass on it... but the fact is we DO live in a time where people just look at your resume and write you off if you don't fit in that specific set of guidelines.
Majoring in Philosophy may have given you the most well rounded education you could ever hope for and given you a set of skills no one would expect but it's going to be worthless if you never get a chance to get face to face with an employer rather than them just seeing your resume and tossing it because you don't fit into their neat little package. Understand what I mean? Once you get the interview then you can WOW them with your skills and brains but before that you unfortunately need something to present on paper that will make them want to meet with you.
I personally think many companies are missing out on some of the best employees because they won't look at anyone who doesn't fit their list of specifics but it is the way of the world right now so you've either gotta figure out a way to fit into that, change it or .... I lost my train of thought and now I don't have a way to finish that sentence lol
as long as you aren't standing there with your hand out waiting for someone else to pay your bills for you because you didn't get the 6 figure job you were expecting to be offered to you the moment you stepped out of school (general you)it sucks that we live in a time where jobs look at a resume and don't see a degree they think is important and pass on it... but the fact is we DO live in a time where people just look at your resume and write you off if you don't fit in that specific set of guidelines.
Majoring in Philosophy may have given you the most well rounded education you could ever hope for and given you a set of skills no one would expect but it's going to be worthless if you never get a chance to get face to face with an employer rather than them just seeing your resume and tossing it because you don't fit into their neat little package. Understand what I mean? Once you get the interview then you can WOW them with your skills and brains but before that you unfortunately need something to present on paper that will make them want to meet with you.
I personally think many companies are missing out on some of the best employees because they won't look at anyone who doesn't fit their list of specifics but it is the way of the world right now so you've either gotta figure out a way to fit into that, change it or .... I lost my train of thought and now I don't have a way to finish that sentence lol
That's where a good cover letter comes into play! My resume is...eclectic, at best. :lol-sign: But using that cover letter to explain how the variety in my resume means I'm flexible and have a wide-variety of skills, as well as proving I'm capable of easily learning new skills, etc. looks good.
So yeah, a lot depends on luck of the draw. My English teacher in high school loved to tell the story about how he and a fellow classmate had identical degrees, GPA's, etc. He got a job teaching high school English. His buddy landed a job teaching technical writing to people at IBM. My teacher was making like $28K/yr starting. His buddy...$100K/yr starting.
Otherwise, just keep swimmin'...
So yeah, a lot depends on luck of the draw. My English teacher in high school loved to tell the story about how he and a fellow classmate had identical degrees, GPA's, etc. He got a job teaching high school English. His buddy landed a job teaching technical writing to people at IBM. My teacher was making like $28K/yr starting. His buddy...$100K/yr starting.
Otherwise, just keep swimmin'...
I think the problem right now is simply that there aren't that many people LOOKING to hire much of anyone, and if they are, there are experienced people with exactly the skill sets they need that are out of work. That was the problem with my "trade school" degree. I had the misfortune to graduate right when the dot.com crash put people with 10 years of experience out of work. I didn't have a chance, second in my class or not.
I'm not sure the problem these kids have is that they have the wrong degree so much as that there are no jobs to be had, except for some technical jobs. Which, as I've noted before, not everyone is cut out for. What I'm hearing is that employers want "purple squirrels" people with very, very, very specific skills and experience. No one right out of college is going qualify, unless they, largely by dumb luck, ended up in certain technical fields. Heck, I get headhunter calls all the time from people who want an energy regulation lawyer for their firm . . . but they want an federal energy regulation lawyer with a number of years of experience, not some poor kid just out of law school.
And other than some of the law graduates, I'm not sure most of those kids want 6 figure jobs . . . they just want jobs that they can live on and that have some future to them. I think there is WAY too much stereotyping going on here . . . because frankly, with a few exceptions, no one EVER got six figure jobs right out of college (certain lucky holders of professional degrees excepted) and yet they weren't out protesting before. No, I think this has a lot to do with there being no jobs that are remotely adequate to pay their loans and that have future advancement opportunities. It doesn't matter how hard you work, or whether you are the most fantastic barista in the world, you just aren't going any where at Starbucks. And its not like "well, I'll work at Starbucks for a year and it will get better". It isn't getting better, and they know it.
I'm not defending those kids without reservation, but I do think that people are being overly harsh and judgmental towards many of them, and too willing to dismiss them as spoiled little fools.
PS I got this job because of excellent law school grades, but also because I had an interesting writing sample and a resume that, as the managing partner said, showed "mental agility." I was a good match for this firm. Others wouldn't even look at me . . . I was too odd. But I still have a job and a lot of "normal" people don't. <crosses fingers when I say that>
I'm not sure the problem these kids have is that they have the wrong degree so much as that there are no jobs to be had, except for some technical jobs. Which, as I've noted before, not everyone is cut out for. What I'm hearing is that employers want "purple squirrels" people with very, very, very specific skills and experience. No one right out of college is going qualify, unless they, largely by dumb luck, ended up in certain technical fields. Heck, I get headhunter calls all the time from people who want an energy regulation lawyer for their firm . . . but they want an federal energy regulation lawyer with a number of years of experience, not some poor kid just out of law school.
And other than some of the law graduates, I'm not sure most of those kids want 6 figure jobs . . . they just want jobs that they can live on and that have some future to them. I think there is WAY too much stereotyping going on here . . . because frankly, with a few exceptions, no one EVER got six figure jobs right out of college (certain lucky holders of professional degrees excepted) and yet they weren't out protesting before. No, I think this has a lot to do with there being no jobs that are remotely adequate to pay their loans and that have future advancement opportunities. It doesn't matter how hard you work, or whether you are the most fantastic barista in the world, you just aren't going any where at Starbucks. And its not like "well, I'll work at Starbucks for a year and it will get better". It isn't getting better, and they know it.
I'm not defending those kids without reservation, but I do think that people are being overly harsh and judgmental towards many of them, and too willing to dismiss them as spoiled little fools.
PS I got this job because of excellent law school grades, but also because I had an interesting writing sample and a resume that, as the managing partner said, showed "mental agility." I was a good match for this firm. Others wouldn't even look at me . . . I was too odd. But I still have a job and a lot of "normal" people don't. <crosses fingers when I say that>