Doxie Pups

[Whisper]

It's not about loving your dogs, it's obvious you do. There are 6-8 million in shelters every year and half of them get euthanized because people wanted to breed pets. Working dogs and show dogs go to purposeful homes and the pets end up in shelters. Breeding for companionship is just not realistic in this day and age because there are millions of pet quality loving dogs in shelters, purebred and mixed.
BYBs breed dogs with no titles or health testing and just breed because they want to or because they think they can make nice puppies. If everyone did that and there were no rescuers or people against backyard breeding the overpopulation I'm sure would take an even more dangerous toll. The more exceptional standards you put on breeding dogs the more exceptionally sound dogs are born and the less puppies produced and in shelters.
Health testing is important. It's not possible to look at a dog and proclaim it genetically sound. Another reason pedigrees are important because you want to know as much as possible about the lines and ancestors of the dogs you are reproducing. Bringing more dogs into an already overpopulated world is not something to mess around with or take lightly.
Bringing pet quality dogs into the world so people can save money on one is not an important reason to breed. There are purebred dogs in shelters that offer just as much companionship to people for $150.00.
http://www.jlhweb.net/Boxermap/reputablebreeder.html
http://www.adoptarescuepet.org/byb.htm
http://www.21stcenturycares.org/backyardbreeders.htm

 

[~Jessie~]

I don't know about you, but my shelter adopts out dogs for $60 with a neuter, microchip, and shots. On Petfinder.com, most of the dogs are adopted out for under $250... very rarely do I see a dog up for adoption costing more than that.

I read somewhere that only 30% of all dogs are in their forever homes... and millions of dogs are put to sleep every year in shelters. Also, there are many, many purebreds in shelters. There is NO reason to add more poorly bred dogs to the population. To me, it's sad and selfish to be breeding for pets when there are MORE than enough sleeping in shelters behind cold metal bars.

Anyway, one of my chihuahua's came from a BYB (backyard breeder). He has floppy ears, an underbite, and bow legs... I wish that I still had his "breeder's" contact information so I could give him a piece of my mind.

My girls came from show breeders who breed for themselves. They have very few litters, and sell very few puppies because their purpose of breeding is to better the breed. I have very good health guarantees on them, and their breeders will take them back anytime in their lives (no questions asked).

Would you take back your puppies? What if at the age of 2 an owner comes to you because their dog needs a $6000 back surgery and can't afford it? Will you take this dog back into your household and pay for their vet bills?

 

[Baileys]

Yet again, if they can't afford a $600 puppy, who provides for those dogs when they need emergency treatment?

We paid big bucks to get a Coronavirus dog healthy again. It was a dog we'd bred and given away, and the owners (big surprise) couldn't afford to continue her shots, and also couldn't afford to pay to make her healthy again.
I guess its good that you're not supporting a trash registry. But I still think that breeding slightly right doesn't make it acceptable. Like I said, its a hobby. I know breeders who are doing everything right and will give their dogs away to serious homes. If people want companionship, let them rescue. If they want to buy a dog, let them support breeders who are doing right, not making excuses.

Boards should have rules with minimum standards for posting litter announcements.

It sounds like you've had a bad experience or 2 with buyers who were not serious about owning the pet and being responsible to take care of it...at the same time, you can't hold everybody to the same low standard that an irresponsible buyer showed. Lots of vets will work with a pet owner on a bill, take payments, etc..if the person is responsible and caring enough to bring their pet in to get it taken care of, then the vet will 9 times out of 10 take payments.


If the litter announcement were made as an announcement that the puppies would be ready for sale and "come get em" when they're ready, then sure, there should be rules and standards set forth. Jingles' announcement however was just one saying yay the babies are here.

Yes, I did see where you said you were a gas station peon...great for you for having the initiative to put your money back to pay a high price for your pet and having the extra foresight to put additional money back for any additional expenses. Low-income people will do whatever needs to be done if they have a puppy/pet that needs a surgery or treatment for xyz virus. Just like any other good pet owner would. I was a full-time college student working as a work-study on federal grant money...my cat that I'd had for 9 years got out of the house and drug himself back home 3 days later with a shattered hip and leg...I worked in a tobacco field after work and school every day for 2 months to pay off the vet bill where I took him for surgery to be repaired..I didn't have 1200.00 lying around, but I did what needed to be done in order for my loved pet to be taken care of. Just because there are some bad apples out there should not mean that everyone should have to pay an exhorbitant price for a pet that is guaranteed to have a good temperment and personality.

I am all for rescuing from a shelter, I've done that more than I've bought from breeders. There are some people however who can't necessarily take the gamble that a random pet from the shelter will not be cross or aggressive with their loved ones once they get it home. That's where people like Jingles are invaluable to wanna be pet owners who can't afford 600.00 or more for a pet but want the benefit of observing the puppy's parents and seeing what their behavior is before they pick the animal..

Let me say that I am in no way a supporter of puppy millers or BYB. I can't stand people who want to make a fast buck off of a poor animal or animals. I just think that if someone has an occasional litter and wants to see a kid smile by giving them a dog, then kudos to them. If it's someone breeding a dog every chance they get, that's another thing entirely. Gracie is a shelter dog, sqeaker's a shelter kitty, and bailey was a rescue...If we can save those animals, I'm all for it. I just know that some people don't want to take that risk.

 

[~Jessie~]

^^^ There are TONS upon TONS of puppies on petfinder.com .

 

[Sunnierhawk0]

Im sorry, but I think this is a load of BS. Its nice that you got the hips CHECKED, wondering, what was the evaluation? Did you send them into OFA? How about thier heart and eyes ? Any of these done?

And honestly, as someone else said, with every HEALTH tested and CLEARED, titled in some way (conformation, working) there will be pets that just are either not going to make it as far as conformation, temperment, or working ability.

A couple questions for you....

You say anyone can walk into your yard and meet the parents, thats fine and dandy, but do you have any knowledge of pedigrees for both your dogs? Health issues that have come up? Where did you aquire your dogs from?

Im sorry Im sounding harsh, but there are millions of doxies in shelters all over the world because someone bred for " temperment and compaionship"

 

[noludoru]

Wow. Just wow. We actually have someone defending BYB'ing... I'd go ahead and strip that argument bare, there are more than enough holes that you've practically done it for me, but I'm tired and irritable and someone else will. For now I'll opcorn:

Meanwhile I'd just like to ask how much Jingles is selling her puppies for, how much she (right?) spends in health-testing on each dog, and how much profit would be lost if she actually registered her dogs...

 

[happyhound]

Im sorry, but I think this is a load of BS. Its nice that you got the hips CHECKED, wondering, what was the evaluation? Did you send them into OFA? How about thier heart and eyes ? Any of these done?

Here ya go..

All of my dogs have been vet checked and females hips checked for being able to have pups.

She just got the hips checked to make sure they could have puppies. More like a "will they make it out" hip check.

 

[~Jessie~]

Here ya go..



She just got the hips checked to make sure they could have puppies. More like a "will they make it out" hip check.

Yep... a c-section bill greatly cuts into your profits

 

[Sunnierhawk0]

Vet checked, but not sent into OFA or penn hip to acutally make sure they were free of HD..... lovely.

I have to wonder, how much of a companion dog these puppies will be when in 2-3 years they cant get up becaue thier rear end is down, and thus the owner cant afford surgrey and they are put down.....

*sigh*

 

[Sush]

I'm totally with you guys on the BYB argument but something was said along the lines of...

If you can't afford a $600 pup then you have no right even owning a dog?

WTF? That didn't quite sit right with me. Some people don't have $600 up front to buy a dog, doesn't mean they wouldn't make great owners. Yeah accidents happen and vet bills can occur but that's what you get pet insurance for. Vets will spay for free with vouchers, pet stores do mobile vaccine clinics for super cheap. Owning a dog doesn't mean you need to have thousands of dollars stockpiled.

 

[Bahamutt99]

If we can save those animals, I'm all for it. I just know that some people don't want to take that risk.

You're taking just as much risk buying from someone who isn't taking their breeding seriously. Breeding dogs is not a public make-a-wish-foundation enterprise. It is not to assist somebody who's kid is holding her breath and demanding a puppy they can't afford to buy. It is about improving the breed. The best breeders breed to keep their own lines going, and place very few dogs. If you breed to make pets, that's not improving the breed. Its supply and demand.

If you can't afford a $600 pup then you have no right even owning a dog?

I stand by what I say. If you want to support BYBs rather than save up the money to support a breeder who is doing right, then you don't need a dog. I never said you had to have the $600 "up front." Save it up. But don't act as though you need a puppy to keep your head from falling off, and no way are you going to go through the trouble of researching a good breeder. I understand fully what its like being poor. My roof is leaking right now. But if I were looking to buy a dog, I wouldn't go to a breeder who is breeding substandard dogs just because they're cheaper. People who feel like that "have no right even owning a dog," to put it in your exact words.

 

[shadowfacedanes]

All I did was post to anounce the birth of a new litter and I get quized.

You'll find that among pet lovers. Creating new lives holds a lot of responsibility. An ethical breeder would have no problems answering the questions you've been asked.

Thank you to those that support me and to those who don't, have you ever seen the face of a person who can't afford that $600 puppy, or the little boy that's handicapped whose mom just got them a puppy at an affordable price. I have and it's priceless.

Oh good Lord.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I HAVE seen the face of a person who couldn't afford that $600 puppy.....they came to my rescue organization and adopted a puppy and saved a life - for under $100.00.

Tell yourself whatevvvvvvvvver you need to tell yourself to justify your breedings. A true mark of a BYB.

I paid over $300 for most of my dogs to have the great genes and temperment and disposition on my pups. I also can register them with CKC but have chose not to.

Newsflash - anyone can register with CKC - they only want the money. I could register a rock with CKC if I paid their fee and embellished my paperwork.

 

[Bob4eva]

For God's sake you lot!!
Can't you last 5 minutes without fighting with eachother??
She was just posting to say about having a litter,and you accuse her of byb-ing!
Its stuff like this that makes people leave this site,because some of the people on here have a serious attitude problem.I mean,you don't go flaming redrye when she posts saying she had a litter do ya?(no offence redrye,just using ya as an example.)

Anywho,jingles, I'm sure you care tons for your dogs but you should get them nuetered to keep the dog population down.Also it calms your dogs down and prevents the risk of cancer.And sorry for the behaviour of some of us here.

 

[Saintgirl]

Let me say that I am in no way a supporter of puppy millers or BYB. I can't stand people who want to make a fast buck off of a poor animal or animals. I just think that if someone has an occasional litter and wants to see a kid smile by giving them a dog, then kudos to them.

I'm sorry, I think you have the wrong idea about what a BYB is. I think that this site explains what they are very well.
http://www.nopuppymillscanada.ca/back_yard_breeders.htm

Also, breeders who sell double dapples for thousands of dollars are not responsible breeders-they are BYB's. An ethical breeder would never breed these colors because they are aware of the risk of deafness resulting from the litter. A responsible breeder wants to better the breed- not create more health problems within their beloved breed.

I decided to check online a doxie breeders list of health tests and I came up with this in 2 seconds...
Intervertebral disk disease
Hip and Elbows dysplaia (not hips for purpose of birthing)
Progressive retinal atrophy
Cataracts
Entropion
Sub-aortic Stenosis
Cardiomyopathy
Renal dysplasia
VonWillibrands
Thyroid disorders
Epilepsy
Cerebella Ataxia

So when you say that the so called "responsible breeders" are chargiong way too much for their pups think again! These tests are not cheap and can cost into the thousands of dollars, let alone the cost of acheiving some sort of title (whether it be working or conformation). Rarely a responsible breeder breaks even at the end of the year-let alone makes a profit! The reason the responsible breeders charge this much is so that they can give a realistic health guarentee and be confident that they have bred a dog and a bitch who will contribute to the breed. Responsible breeders care about their breed as a whole- not just the dogs living in their home. So really $600 bucks is a bargain! You can be confident that you made a great investment---AND didn't contribute to BYB and puppy mills!

And please give me a break about the sick little boy who is given a puppy because a smile on his face is the only thing that matters. If this is the driving force behind your breedings than may I suggest taking the time to have one of your dogs become a therapy dog and attend hospitals where you will find lots of children with available smiles!

 

[Brattina88]

Bob4... I really don't think you have any right to butt in here because you obviously don't know what your talking about!
TRUST ME Red has heard it all - been lectured, accused of everything MANY times. Guess what? "We" don't "flame" her anymore because she is NOT A BYB... WOW! Imagine that!

People who leave the site over being called a BYB must have some guilt issues... :lol-sign:

I really don't see anyone being excessively rude here (although your post did strike a nerve with the BOLD YELLING WORDS and accusations), they are just calling it like they see it.
Yes some people could use some better word choices, but that's life. Breeding is always a hot topic - and its one close to most animal lover's hearts. We only want to protect dogs, and prevent future unwanted puppies.

 

[Bahamutt99]

Its stuff like this that makes people leave this site,because some of the people on here have a serious attitude problem.I mean,you don't go flaming redrye when she posts saying she had a litter do ya?(no offence redrye,just using ya as an example.)

People always run away when they aren't told what they want to hear. Those that stick around and absorb are respectable in my book.

Comparing this breeder to Redyre with titled, proven, tested Rottweilers is like apples to oranges.

 

[Bob4eva]

See what i mean?
I don't have a RIGHT to butt in?
Isn't this a public forum,as in the public can post on here not just you few "chaz gods"
I was just using red as an example there can't you read?
I may have come across rude but im just fighting fire with fire here.

I know breeding is a strong subject for you guys,but flaming people isn't going to make it all better,its just going to make you come off as a rude snob frankly.

Geez i try and make the peace and you come and flame me.
Ain't this suppossed to be a friendly community here?

 

[Brattina88]

See what i mean?
I don't have a RIGHT to butt in?
Isn't this a public forum,as in the public can post on here not just you few "chaz gods"
I was just using red as an example there can't you read?
I may have come across rude but im just fighting fire with fire here.

I know breeding is a strong subject for you guys,but flaming people isn't going to make it all better,its just going to make you come off as a rude snob frankly.

Geez i try and make the peace and you come and flame me.
Ain't this suppossed to be a friendly community here?

I think you need to go back and read my post. I am not one to flame, trust me
"Chaz Gods" ROFLMAO! That's a good one!

You're "fighting fire with fire" but where is the fire? Honestly, no one is flaming you here. You are the one calling members "rude snobs" and "chaz gods" :lol-sign: Do you think calling people names is going to make peace?? Why are you feeling the need to defend yourself from an attack that doesn't exist?

 

[Bob4eva]

Poke fun all you want brattina,coz all thats makes you is a bully.

Pst,i dunno why i bother.
Tata!

 

[Brattina88]

You didn't answer my questions ???

You're "fighting fire with fire" but where is the fire? Honestly, no one is flaming you here. You are the one calling members "rude snobs" and "chaz gods" Do you think calling people names is going to make peace?? Why are you feeling the need to defend yourself from an attack that doesn't exist?

If you think I've "bullied" you, then for heaven's sake feel free to PM me to sort this out. I know its hard to know the tone of ones views over text on a screen but my post have been lighthearted (note the smileys), and if you knew me you would know that I am NOT the type of person to "bully" "flame" or be any kind of a "rude"
Otherwise, I'm done here. Have a great day
---------------------------------------------------
BTT

They're really cute. I wish you, the mom, and the pups the best of luck!
I hope we got to hear updates and maybe see some more pics!