Dog torture!!!!

[Dizzy]

mama - it is your choice to do what you want.

i just hope you can see that there are OTHER alternatives.

What methods have you tried to train him so far? How long did you persist with each method? What environmental factors (where did you try it)? Are you 100% positive you were doing the method correctly - where you shown by someone who is experienced?

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

True, but still no arguement for the use of this collar, when it CAN be achieved without.

Police dogs are dangerous. They're very well trained, but they *are* dangerous. If their handler were to lose control, the dog could be a danger to the public. A large breed, trained to to attack is *not* safe if not under COMPLETE control.

 

[Dizzy]

gaddy - that is still no reason to use one..

I don't want to bring a "us" and "them" into it, but the uk trainers do NOT use prong collars (I am using this as an example purely to show they are not necessary).

These dogs are JUST as "dangerous" and are in need of control - are you suggesting we are at more risk? No - the dogs are trained using positive methods and are JUST as effective.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

Please re-read the post of mine you just quoted and highlight where I said the whole of the US used prong collars. And even a bit where I mentioned the people of the US using prong collars?

Because I think you have misread it.

If we can manage without them - why can't you?

"If we" (referring to the British) "can manage with out them - why can't you?" (referring to the Americans).

That's grouping all of us Americans...over a million people...together, into one.

I'm simply sick of the American bashing that has been going on recently.

 

[Dizzy]

Look - just drop the "you're america bashing" because I can state clearly NOW I am not.

I am merely saying if they are such a NECESSARY tool - how can we manage without them?? Why are they not worldwide?

I am making a point, and you are reading between the lines.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

gaddy - that is still no reason to use one..

I don't want to bring a "us" and "them" into it, but the uk trainers do NOT use prong collars (I am using this as an example purely to show they are not necessary).

These dogs are JUST as "dangerous" and are in need of control - are you suggesting we are at more risk? No - the dogs are trained using positive methods and are JUST as effective.

In your opinion it is not. In mine it is.

Well good for you. But American police officers do. And I support that use, because I'd much prefer and experienced attack dog to be under complete control than having even just 1% of a chance of getting out of control.

 

[SummerRiot]

OK from
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/14631.html

Pinch or Prong Collars are made from a series of (usually) metal, pairs of links and when the chain is tightened, they squeeze small amounts of flesh all around the dogs neck. Pinch or Prong collars are not intended to be a normal, everyday collar. They are purely for training and are a *tool*.
"The collar is worn high on the neck of the dog, just below the ears*". It can be adjusted accordingly by removing a link. These collars should never be left on an unsupervised dog and NEVER used on a puppy.

If you must use this type of training aid, please get experienced dog handlers to show you how to use them safely and correctly. In the wrong hands these collars can cause serious injury.

A quote from here http://www.justfurkids.com/gsd_resources.htm

A Study* on Prong Collars was done in Germany: 100 dogs were in the study.
50 used choke collars and 50 used prong collars. The dogs were studied for their entire lives. As dogs died, autopsies were performed.

Of the 50 which had choke collars, 48 had injuries to the neck, trachea, or back. 2 of those were determined to be genetic. The other 46 were caused by trauma.

Of the 50 which had prong collars, 2 had injuries in the neck area, 1 was determined to be genetic. 1 was caused by trauma.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

Look - just drop the "you're america bashing" because I can state clearly NOW I am not.

I am merely saying if they are such a NECESSARY tool - how can we manage without them?? Why are they not worldwide?

I am making a point, and you are reading between the lines.

No, I'm reading what you wrote, which seemed just a tad bit anti-American.

Each dog is different. I do not believe that every dog NEEDS a prong collar, but some DO. If your police forces prefer to train without prongs etc., that's all well and good, but I don't see anything wrong with American police forces using prongs. American bred dogs are going to be different than dogs from England, or Germany, or wherever. It's already been proven. Breeds vary from country to country.

 

[gaddylovesdogs]

OK from
http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/board/topic/14631.html

I've heard they should be worn high up on the neck, and then otherwise - that they should be worn lower down on the neck, as high up is a sensitive area.

 

[SummerRiot]

Here is a very helpful site I think you should look into as well..

http://www.cobankopegi.com/prong.html

 

[SummerRiot]

I pulled this quote from that site as well..

useful if you have a long haired dog - like Riot..

The limitations of the nylon snap choke are, in my opinion:

(1) In long haired dogs with thick neck hair, nylon chokes generally do not release at the end of the correction, so even if the dog responds well to the correction, the collar may continue to nag and punish the dog. It only takes a little wear on a fabric choke for this problem to start to develop because the thick undercoat of a long haired dog easily fouls the choke.

 

[filarotten]

What started out as a friendly discussion is now getting ugly. If this continues, I will lock this thread.

Fila

 

[Dizzy]

I don't think it is getting ugly, and I'm normally the 1st person to say so

 

[SummerRiot]

Good plan

What started out as a friendly discussion is now getting ugly. If this continues, I will lock this thread

I found some useful sites and posted the links to them as well for anyone who is truely interested.

 

[JennSLK]

So Dizzy - If it is so bad and horrible how come Emma comes RUNNING towards me when she hears it jingle? Huh? If it was so bad and cruel then you would think she wouldnt want to go for a walk insted of almost giivng herself a stroke from wanting to so bad.

 

[filarotten]

Putting an end to this subject.

 

[DanL]

Dizzy, how many dogs have you trained?