Dog torture!!!!
- Thread starter Lawdog
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Lawdog, I'm not surprised at your reaction. The prong/pinch collar does look like a torture device (especially to the general public). And, like a torture device, it relies on pain to control the dog.
When the dog pulls, the "prongs" (note they are not pointed, however) poke into the dog's neck. Some people want to excuse it as being like a bite of a mother dog (what mother dog bites all the way around a neck like that? *L*). But the plain fact is that the pain of the collar keeps the dog from pulling. Many, if not most, of those using the prong collar use it instead of proper training. It's become the "tool of choice" for people with dogs they can't seem to control otherwise.
I have a couple of prong collars here and I have used them on occasion with a dog that pulls particularly bad or the rare dog that I feel NEEDS some painful consequence in order to stop a behavior. Used sparingly, they are a good tool and a relatively safe one as they don't tend to create injuries (like a choke chain might).
What I don't like about the prong is that it's vastly over-used. If someone has to always walk their dog on a prong, then there's been a lack of training somewhere along the line. In addition, training with the use of pain as your main "motivator" diminishes the quality of the relationship between you and your dog. There are better ways to train.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
When the dog pulls, the "prongs" (note they are not pointed, however) poke into the dog's neck. Some people want to excuse it as being like a bite of a mother dog (what mother dog bites all the way around a neck like that? *L*). But the plain fact is that the pain of the collar keeps the dog from pulling. Many, if not most, of those using the prong collar use it instead of proper training. It's become the "tool of choice" for people with dogs they can't seem to control otherwise.
I have a couple of prong collars here and I have used them on occasion with a dog that pulls particularly bad or the rare dog that I feel NEEDS some painful consequence in order to stop a behavior. Used sparingly, they are a good tool and a relatively safe one as they don't tend to create injuries (like a choke chain might).
What I don't like about the prong is that it's vastly over-used. If someone has to always walk their dog on a prong, then there's been a lack of training somewhere along the line. In addition, training with the use of pain as your main "motivator" diminishes the quality of the relationship between you and your dog. There are better ways to train.
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
MomOf7 said:
LOL I will admit they do appear to look like a torture device to someone who doesnt know thier use or how to fit them. I dont disagree with using them at all. Its another tool for training. I just dont use them. I use a slip lead or a E-collar.
I dont believe the poster was trying to offend anyone. Just was being honest. Nothing wrong with that!
To the poster......Find out more information on that training tool. Maybe if you have more information you can have a educated opinion on its use. Some things arent as they appear...some are...Its always best to find out for yourself
I dont believe the poster was trying to offend anyone. Just was being honest. Nothing wrong with that!
To the poster......Find out more information on that training tool. Maybe if you have more information you can have a educated opinion on its use. Some things arent as they appear...some are...Its always best to find out for yourself
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First of all, trying the prong on yourself to feel the pain is irrelevant, because you cannot compare the pain of one species to another. If an adult dog picked up human baby by the neck the baby would more and likely die or be seriously injured because our bodies are SO different. If it was a puppy picked up by the neck, the puppy would be fine. Prongs ARE intented to mimmick the mom's correction of nipping the neck. I scruf my dogs up when they do something wrong (like my puppy who decided to bite me because I was giving him a bath. I grabbed his scruff and growled at him, he did it again, I growled and bit him, from that moment on he NEVER bit me again). People will always have different views about the prongs which you are entitled to have, but that does not give you the right to say a trainer who uses a prong is "lazy" or a bad trainer, JMO.
Roxy, that's one I've not heard. From my experience, it works rather well to stop pulling in most cases. However, there are those people who just put the collar on with no training behind it and no idea how to properly fit the collar. Those are the people you see still being dragged around by a dog on a prong. I used one on Aubrey soon after we got her, because there was no way I knew of (at the time anyway) to get her to stop pulling long enough to teach her what heel meant. A few sessions on that, well timed praise and she's much better. Now it's timing, treats and games for reinforcment.
GSDlover_4ever said:
Crazy, I thought all dogs where different? And with different dogs you have different techniques. Funny how that works, eh.
And with different dogs you have different techniques. Funny how that works, eh.
I repeat this question...
They are not on general sale in the UK (I can't even find them on the net).
SOooooo
If we can manage without them - why can't you?
We have as many difficult to train, big dogs as the US etc.
Seem like the easy solution if you ask me - we put in hard work, you buy a prong collar.
To me, knowing they just are not necessary for people to effectively train their dogs (apparently even the POLICE and ARMY and TRAINERS ARE BANNED from using them), they are a waste of time and money and needless stress for a dog.
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Really, that must say something abouth them then. I'd never even heard or seen one until I came on her. Honestly when I first saw one I was like 'why on earth would anyone put one of those on their dog?'. I know I would never use one.
I don't want to admit it but I only just got Casey to walk at heel properly last year. I didn't use any type of collar though. I guess it's just personal choice.
I don't want to admit it but I only just got Casey to walk at heel properly last year. I didn't use any type of collar though. I guess it's just personal choice.
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LMAO!!! Breaking out the caps and bolds, you must be mad. No need, calm down. Its a personal choice and I choose to use the prong. You dont want to thats fine, but I live in the US, and last I checked I was able to make choices. Our police and army DO use prongs, AND??? You would be surprised at what goes on behind the scene, I feel bad for those dogs because God only knows what they use if they dont use a prong, maybe ear pinches, or hanging them, who knows?? The police and army are not the nicest people when it comes to training dogs, and I dont blame them, they need full control of that dog or else they put themselves and the dog at risk. And let me not even get into how trainers treat service dogs. They throw cans FULL of rocks at their heads, hang them, ect. So to say a prong is not used means nothing to me, I'm scared to know what IS used.
Caps and bold, so it wouldn't go unoticed. I am quite calm - it's a lovely day.
Perhaps your trainers and army etc are not as rigourously checked as ours? I am not worried for those dogs welfare, the lengths they will go to ban such needless devices is a glimpse into how things are done.
And as for making choices, we are too - they are not banned from the general public. Just seems we have made the choice not to use them, and again, have managed perfectly fine.
My gripe is that they are not necessary, they are a quick fix for most people, who are clearly incapable or lazy.
Perhaps your trainers and army etc are not as rigourously checked as ours? I am not worried for those dogs welfare, the lengths they will go to ban such needless devices is a glimpse into how things are done.
And as for making choices, we are too - they are not banned from the general public. Just seems we have made the choice not to use them, and again, have managed perfectly fine.
My gripe is that they are not necessary, they are a quick fix for most people, who are clearly incapable or lazy.
Dizzy, do people use choke chains in the UK? Prong collars are actually supposed to be better than choke chains because studies have shown the choke chains can cause trachea damage. I did a quick search of choke chain collars and UK and found several hits. You have every right to your opinion but it isn't really fair to judge somebody for using a professionaly accepted training tool on their dog. I understant you believe in positive reinforcement so you should try to promote that instead of bashing other people and countries. You're generalizing and that isn't right. Not everyone in the US uses prong collars and not everyone in the UK uses positive reinforcement.
btw, I agree with you entirely on using positive reinforcement training, but I won't bash anyone using a prong collar under the supervision of a trainer. Not all dogs are the same.
btw, I agree with you entirely on using positive reinforcement training, but I won't bash anyone using a prong collar under the supervision of a trainer. Not all dogs are the same.
I am not country bashing OR people bashing.
The POINT I am making is that if it CAN be done WiTHOUT them, then why isn't it?
I personally think choke chains are no better, and yes, they CAN be bought here.
I think that people in this world want quick results, at the detriment of all else. Human nature is an ugly beast.
I have never even shouted at my own dog, and the bond we have is built purely on trust. You can see that everytime I look at her. If I cannot train her using kindness and positive steps, then I think I would rather not have a dog.
I have seen even the most disobedient dogs trained to perfection without the use of ANY force, ANY pinch/choke/prong/pain.
By me saying people are lazy or incapable, I do not mean the US, I mean PEOPLE.
If YOU (as in people not anyone) cannot manage to train your dog without the use of these "aids" then perhaps you should enroll or get the help of someone who can.
Time and patience is all that is needed. If you don't have those, you shouldn't have a dog.
The POINT I am making is that if it CAN be done WiTHOUT them, then why isn't it?
I personally think choke chains are no better, and yes, they CAN be bought here.
I think that people in this world want quick results, at the detriment of all else. Human nature is an ugly beast.
I have never even shouted at my own dog, and the bond we have is built purely on trust. You can see that everytime I look at her. If I cannot train her using kindness and positive steps, then I think I would rather not have a dog.
I have seen even the most disobedient dogs trained to perfection without the use of ANY force, ANY pinch/choke/prong/pain.
By me saying people are lazy or incapable, I do not mean the US, I mean PEOPLE.
If YOU (as in people not anyone) cannot manage to train your dog without the use of these "aids" then perhaps you should enroll or get the help of someone who can.
Time and patience is all that is needed. If you don't have those, you shouldn't have a dog.
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You are grouping an entire, huge country into one, and saying that ALL Americans use prongs as a quick fix. That's what's ticking me off.
I don't own a prong collar. My dogs are walked on nylon buckle collars and four foot nylon leads. We have a great relationship and they are my babies. I'm extremely protective of them.
Just because *your* dog doesn't need a prong collar does not mean that other dogs won't need "harsher" training techiniques. Your dog is *not* every dog.
EDIT: And as for our army and police officers...I'm not sure about the army, but I know that most K9 Officers are treated very well, and the reason prongs are often used is because these are not regular dogs, they are working dogs, and are trained to attack, and the handler needs to have 100% control at *ALL TIMES!*
I don't own a prong collar. My dogs are walked on nylon buckle collars and four foot nylon leads. We have a great relationship and they are my babies. I'm extremely protective of them.
Just because *your* dog doesn't need a prong collar does not mean that other dogs won't need "harsher" training techiniques. Your dog is *not* every dog.
EDIT: And as for our army and police officers...I'm not sure about the army, but I know that most K9 Officers are treated very well, and the reason prongs are often used is because these are not regular dogs, they are working dogs, and are trained to attack, and the handler needs to have 100% control at *ALL TIMES!*
We are considering using a prong for Buddy (sorry Dizzy). I've tried absolutely everything else including wrapping his leash around his middle. I've been putting it off because I don't want to put it on him incorrectly. If possible, could someone explain the correct way to put it on him?
As far as the prong hurting the dog, I have been told that because they're skin is so much thicker than ours, especially around their necks, the prong does not in any way hurt them. My boys roll each other around by the necks constantly. I'm thinking a prong collar is much less rough than that.
As far as the prong hurting the dog, I have been told that because they're skin is so much thicker than ours, especially around their necks, the prong does not in any way hurt them. My boys roll each other around by the necks constantly. I'm thinking a prong collar is much less rough than that.
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