Crufts 2013
- Thread starter Dizzy
- Start date
It surprises me a lot, because in the US that dog would be excused or SOMEONE would have said something right there in the ring on the spot. Here in the US if a dog who was that lame were to go to groups their judge would be reported most likely. What shocks me about this is that the judge had plenty of nice bitches to choose from, so why did he put up a bitch who was flat out limping? Sounds like a case of the "good ol' boy" syndrome.
My understanding is that there is a lot of favouritism here. There's a lot of international dogs here now, and I have no idea who the judge was, but I know for a fact that there are cliques. Not saying that is what happened here, but makes you wonder?
The uk is a very small place. People know each other. I was basically told not to bother showing Fred last weekend as he was lame. I took him as I was visiting friends who live 2 mins from where the show was, and we chose to watch and I withdrew him, but even walking round someone approached me to ask if he was lame, and advised he'd be asked to leave the ring. Fred's breeder also told me if he was lame he'd be asked to leave. This did happen to his sites breeder and one of her dogs recently....
So I don't understand why the staff wasn't asked to leave.
I can understand an owner wanting to risk it, as that is a different thing.... But the judges should have had an eye on the ball.
The uk is a very small place. People know each other. I was basically told not to bother showing Fred last weekend as he was lame. I took him as I was visiting friends who live 2 mins from where the show was, and we chose to watch and I withdrew him, but even walking round someone approached me to ask if he was lame, and advised he'd be asked to leave the ring. Fred's breeder also told me if he was lame he'd be asked to leave. This did happen to his sites breeder and one of her dogs recently....
So I don't understand why the staff wasn't asked to leave.
I can understand an owner wanting to risk it, as that is a different thing.... But the judges should have had an eye on the ball.
To be fair, the judge you see give the BOB awards is not the one who judged the bitches. The bitches were judged by a woman. The 2 judges had to agree on BOB, and nobody is sure why Archie went along with the bitch getting that award. When he gets back online, we'll see what he has to say for himself. I irritated some people by saying that I felt that I might give him the benefit of the doubt. If you watch the judging of the BOB, he didn't get much chance to see the bitch move. They moved her very little, and never by herself, the dog was moving at the same time. And the dog and bitch almost collided. So my thought is that he may just not have been observing closely enough to see that the bitch was lame on the day. Of course, everyone is pointing out that if he didn't see, he should have moved her again. I think the tradition there of not necessarily moving the dogs that much makes it too easy to miss something like that.
Or, it could be a crooked decision. Or ignorance of proper gait (which seems unlikely). We'll never really know, but soon we'll at least be able to see what the man has to say for himself. The woman judge, who gave the bitch the CC in the first place, we probably will never know. She doesn't participate in the online community.
It's actually not true that in the US, that couldn't happen. Pirate has been beaten by a lame dog before. Granted, the dog only got Reserve, and didn't go further, but still, a lame dog beat a sound one, and everyone knew he was lame. On Saturday, the judge excused the dog for being lame, on Sunday, he beat my dog. (and his owner ripped into me on FB for saying I didn't like losing to a lame dog. Which wasn't her best choice, since otherwise, nobody would have known who the lame dog was.) And in the US, with the tradition of having the dogs go around the ring at least once to observe side gait, there really isn't an excuse for not seeing lameness.
Oh, and on the Crufts judge stepping back when the bitch jumped on him; it looked to me like she nailed him in the crotch.
Or, it could be a crooked decision. Or ignorance of proper gait (which seems unlikely). We'll never really know, but soon we'll at least be able to see what the man has to say for himself. The woman judge, who gave the bitch the CC in the first place, we probably will never know. She doesn't participate in the online community.
It's actually not true that in the US, that couldn't happen. Pirate has been beaten by a lame dog before. Granted, the dog only got Reserve, and didn't go further, but still, a lame dog beat a sound one, and everyone knew he was lame. On Saturday, the judge excused the dog for being lame, on Sunday, he beat my dog. (and his owner ripped into me on FB for saying I didn't like losing to a lame dog. Which wasn't her best choice, since otherwise, nobody would have known who the lame dog was.) And in the US, with the tradition of having the dogs go around the ring at least once to observe side gait, there really isn't an excuse for not seeing lameness.
Oh, and on the Crufts judge stepping back when the bitch jumped on him; it looked to me like she nailed him in the crotch.
They both decide who wins BOB, and honestly I have less to say about the man's decision (I get what you're saying, he didn't get a huge chance to see the dog) but the woman's decision is really confusing. She of all people must have seen that dog move around at least once or twice, what is with that?
Well obviously it *can* happen in the US, I'm just saying that it seems to *regularly* happen at Crufts- the BC who won breed last year was obviously lame in the breed ring, and people just tend to sweep that stuff under the rug more willingly than the people I know here. I think it is all about the good ol' boy syndrome and as Dizzy said, it is a small country, people know each other. I am not saying that's always a bad thing, I'm just saying that things like this will happen as a result of that attitude. I was really dissapointed to see that out of over 200 BCs entered in crufts last year that the dog who won it all was lame... I gotta say... and I'm sure the other competitors in the Staffy ring are annoyed.
Well obviously it *can* happen in the US, I'm just saying that it seems to *regularly* happen at Crufts- the BC who won breed last year was obviously lame in the breed ring, and people just tend to sweep that stuff under the rug more willingly than the people I know here. I think it is all about the good ol' boy syndrome and as Dizzy said, it is a small country, people know each other. I am not saying that's always a bad thing, I'm just saying that things like this will happen as a result of that attitude. I was really dissapointed to see that out of over 200 BCs entered in crufts last year that the dog who won it all was lame... I gotta say... and I'm sure the other competitors in the Staffy ring are annoyed.
Ugh! At least in my loss to a lame dog, neither got the points. Pirate has also lost to a dog that ran out of the ring and had to be hauled back to tremble in terror as the judge went over him. Again, that dog didn't get the points, but it was a travesty of judging. US judging of Staffords is so bad, I am pretty near to giving up on it.
Well, the current news on the Crufts situation is that Archie (Dr Archie Bryden, the dog judge) is claiming not to have seen the lameness of the bitch during the BOB challenge, and that he and his co-judge were dismayed at her movement in group. There is some skepticism, and a lot of very angry people.
Well, the current news on the Crufts situation is that Archie (Dr Archie Bryden, the dog judge) is claiming not to have seen the lameness of the bitch during the BOB challenge, and that he and his co-judge were dismayed at her movement in group. There is some skepticism, and a lot of very angry people.
Yeah it wasn't cool at all.. dog only came in for that day too, so it was obvious they knew the judge would put him up.
I just watched the Terrier group judging, even one of the commentator's said "She looks lame"! And she just looked.. pitiful. I'm so happy my friends SBT's go around the ring with their heads up and don't look like they're being tortured.
I just watched the Terrier group judging, even one of the commentator's said "She looks lame"! And she just looked.. pitiful. I'm so happy my friends SBT's go around the ring with their heads up and don't look like they're being tortured.