Control Unleashed - thoughts

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by corgipower, Nov 18, 2009.

  1. JoeLacy

    JoeLacy New Member

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    Peyton is about 18 months old now, she'll be two on April 1st. Not real sure of her birth day being a pound dog but in the last year she has slowed down "some". Some is a relative word though.

    It's really the only thing that needs fixing with her, I've fixed everything else and other than this one issue, she's a really great dog. She will "leave it" everything else, except dogs.

    Yes, Dekka, that could be very true. Taking her to the DP 3 or 4 times a week may have made matters worse. I can't say it's "much" better today than a year ago and if I hadn't taken her there so much she may be more calm today. I have no way of going back now whatever the case.

    My solution now is just keep her on a leash, if she saw a dog across the street and she was not leashed, she would bolt across the street. You know the drill. Other than DR, she's actually a pretty calm dog. Not Jax calm, but generally "pretty calm" in a variety of situations and completely manageable. It's just that dog thing, and she looses her mind :)
     
  2. AllieMackie

    AllieMackie Wookie Collie

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    I don't think "dog reactive" is the term you're looking for. I hear that and think "dog will punch holes in the triggers that get too close". She simply loses her focus around other dogs, in a big way.

    It's not too late to work on the way she acts around other dogs. Take her to the dog park less and work on building her threshold levels. The main thing you have to realize is that these things can take -months-. I've been working on it with Finn since he was 4 months. He's almost a year now and he's still got a long way to go before being reliable around other dogs, but the progress is still there. It's taken a long time and is frustrating sometimes, but comparitively he's doing great.

    Work with her on walks, one or two dogs walking by here and there, etc. It will take a long time. There are no quick fixes, but it's completely worthwhile in the end to have a dog you can control.
     
  3. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    If all your dog wants to do is go play... how is that different than what she does at the dog park? When at the dog park do you work of focus or is it all just let her run till you take her home?
     
  4. JoeLacy

    JoeLacy New Member

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    Well, no we always work at the DP too some, mixed with play.

    Here's a short clip of her and Jax at the DP, this is when I was training Jax for his CGC but you get the idea.
    YouTube - Jax + Peyton - Stay with distractions

    Peyton LOVES to train, I can see it in her eyes when she knows something and she's THRILLED to do it. I don't think it's a training issue per se, but then I don't know what it is and why I can train almost everything else with her except be calm on command.
     
  5. JoeLacy

    JoeLacy New Member

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    I think that's a fair assessment.
     
  6. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    You should get a clip of what she is doing when you say she isn't calm. They both look VERY calm to me. *you should meet Sport!
     
  7. JoeLacy

    JoeLacy New Member

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    See? That's what I mean, she "can be" GREAT, other times Terrible twos x 2 :)

    I should post a video.
     
  8. JoeLacy

    JoeLacy New Member

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    OK, we just this second went outside and met another dog that she had never met. You can see her scanning before we even encounter another dog, then scanning after we met the dog, breaking heel etc.

    This is pretty much how it goes every time she encounters a dog. Peyton would never get her CGC nor could I trust her off leash not to run off and meet another dog, so agility, rally or any other dog sport is really out of the question.

    Is it the worlds worst reaction? Well, no but but if I loose my grip on that leash, she's gone to the dog.

    You can see exactly what I saw here and this video is unedited from the time we went out until the time we got home.

    YouTube - Peytons DR 11-19-09

    Now if this DR or something else I don't know, but her reaction to another dog needs to change to get her CGC as a first step.
     
  9. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    Is that pretty much the worst she gets, or is she usually worse/better?
     
  10. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Well if you do classes etc the instructor would work with that. I can tell you that is 110% better than most of my clients dogs are like when they come.

    I would suggest going back to a cue to focus on you. (and ALWAYS ALWAYS reward the click.. I can't stress that enough.. if you don't you are lying to your dog) Eventually you want to get to the point where the your dog thinks other dogs are a cue to focus on you.

    Right now Kat barks and screams at dogs when we go places. (though interestingly if we are working in an agility ring she can stay focused on working) She is starting to to bark once than watch my face.
     
  11. AllieMackie

    AllieMackie Wookie Collie

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    Honestly, every time you show a new video of Peyton, I see more and more that she isn't near as bad as you say she is. That reaction is very trainable.

    Never let her visit another dog on a walk until she gives attention to you. Use LAT, and click/treat her for giving you focus. Your dog park video shows she can have focus on you with dogs around - before you made it sound like she ignored you entirely around other dogs, all the time. If it's only part of the time, then you're better set up for training a calm reaction than Finn and I were at the beginning.

    I hear a lot of "never" and "impossible" from you, and judging by your videos Peyton is an easy case compared to a lot of dogs on this forum.
     
  12. JoeLacy

    JoeLacy New Member

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    Yes, that's "about" as bad as it gets but sometimes slightly worse.

    I've tried the LAT game with dogs and it hasn't worked so far. I can't get her to refocus on me, a treat, a ball, a raw piece of meat, nothing will change her focus even if I run it right under her nose, she will not turn away from the dog.
     
  13. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Well, if she's too DR for you to do anything with, can I have her? She's JUST like my Lizzie. :D
     
  14. AllieMackie

    AllieMackie Wookie Collie

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    Walk backwards, as far as you need before she turns around and looks at you. click/treat. Repeat, and slowly work your way to not having to move backwards.
     
  15. JoeLacy

    JoeLacy New Member

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    Uh..NO.
     
  16. lizzybeth727

    lizzybeth727 New Member

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    In the video she responded to your cue to "sit" several times without rewards, with the dog only, what, 10 feet away?

    No, I wouldn't call a dog like that reactive at all... I'd simply call her distracted.

    I would start working on getting eye contact when she is distracted. Do not cue the eye contact, simply quietly wait for her to offer it to you and then reinforce her for it. Work at home first, and use Jax as a distraction.... before she comes out of the crate (if you keep her in a crate), with Jax in the room, do not let her out until she gives you eye contact; when you let her outside, let Jax out first and do not let her go out until she gives you eye contact; periodically when she's playing with Jax, call both dogs to you, hold her but throw a treat or something to get Jax to go away, then wait for her to give you eye contact before you let her go back to playing with him; etc. When you take her out for walks, FREQUENTLY (like, every 30 seconds to a minute) stop and wait for her to give you eye contact before you start walking again. To reinforce the eye contact, you can give her treats OR release her to go play with Jax, whichever is more reinforcing at that time. Once you practice her offering you eye contact about 100 times, she will start offering it as a default behavior - what she does when she's not sure how else to get attention/play time/treats from you. ALWAYS reinforce her for giving you eye contact, even when there are no distractions. You should be reinforcing eye contact at least 30 times a day; hang a tally sheet on your fridge to help you keep track.

    Do not let her encounter other dogs on your walks until you've been practicing this for at least 2 weeks; that means that if you see another dog, you should promptly turn and walk the other way, trying to get out of sight of that dog.

    At that point you can start taking a training class with her. I've said it before and I still believe, all you need is a basic obedience class; your purpose (from what I understand) is to simply get her to focus on you and to work with other dogs around; luckily that's the same goals of about 80% of dog owners who will ever take a class with their dogs, so there should be a lot of basic obedience classes around. Remember what I said before, though, about the importance of finding a trainer that you trust; this is absolutely imperative!!
     
  17. CaliTerp07

    CaliTerp07 New Member

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    Ho boy, I'm sending you Lucy for a day! Peyton will look as calm as a statue in comparison! That video didn't look dog reactive at all to me.

    Seriously, Lucy is craaaaazy about meeting other dogs. We are working on it daily, but it's a slow, long road. Yet, we still do agility! Amazingly, the agility training has REALLY helped her focus. I've seen it improve leaps and bounds since we started training. You could totally do agility now if you wanted to.
     
  18. elegy

    elegy overdogged

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    I think it depends on what you're looking for and what the needs of your dog are.

    For me, CU (the book) changed a lot of my outlook on training. I had been told by so many people for so many years that in order to deal with Luce's DA/reactiveness, I needed to be The Most Interesting And Important Thing Ever and she must look at me always. I could never achieve that. I knew it, and it all felt so self-defeating. I literally cried the first time I read CU because it gave me permission to not fight with my dog anymore. LAT helped me immensely (so did the Gimme a Break game). I never used the whole CU program because the single elements gave me the tools I needed to achieve what I wanted.

    With Steve, I did do a class, and for him, the class setting was extremely beneficial. I did a lot of CU work in agility with him our first session as well. Stuff like parallel racing was extremely important for him (hello Mr. Motion Reactive dog) and that's stuff I could never set up on my own.

    If I had read Click to Calm first, it may have been that book that I see as life-altering, but I read CU first.
     
  19. corgipower

    corgipower Tweleve Enthusiest

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    Thanks elegy! That is very helpful. :D
     

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