http://www.moondogpwd.com/
I live near these people so please let me know if you want me to give them a visit or see a dog for you.
I live near these people so please let me know if you want me to give them a visit or see a dog for you.
Contest...Best breeder website
- Thread starter Amstaffer
- Start date
This has to be my all time favorite breeder website:
Hi-Style Giant Schnauzers
http://www.histylekennel.com/
Hi-Style Giant Schnauzers
http://www.histylekennel.com/
okay, i've emailed this breeder. they seem relly good, i've talked to a couple of people that have got kelpies from her.
i would consider it one day but would prefer to get one souly from working lines.
http://www.callicoma.com.au/
she shows health test results, sires and dams, etc
she shows them, also competes in agility, tracking, obediance, herding etc.
she raises the pups in her own home, socialises them with dogs, cats etc.
and they have all started their leash traning before they come to you.
oh, and she has pictures of a heap of pups she's sold on her site, all their follow ups.
i would consider it one day but would prefer to get one souly from working lines.
http://www.callicoma.com.au/
she shows health test results, sires and dams, etc
she shows them, also competes in agility, tracking, obediance, herding etc.
she raises the pups in her own home, socialises them with dogs, cats etc.
and they have all started their leash traning before they come to you.
oh, and she has pictures of a heap of pups she's sold on her site, all their follow ups.
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Hrmm...I see nothing about health tests or conformation, or being a part of a breed club of some kind. If I were interested in a JRT, I would be leery of those things, JMHO.
Eventually, I'll get a puppy from Yutori kennels, I have a feeling.
http://www.akitasyutori.com/Lapphunds/index.html
However, the Sugarok kennel is excellent as well:
www.sugarok.com
Eventually, I'll get a puppy from Yutori kennels, I have a feeling.
http://www.akitasyutori.com/Lapphunds/index.html
However, the Sugarok kennel is excellent as well:
www.sugarok.com
S
I love this rottie breeder http://vr-rottweilers.com/index.htm
The dogs look amazing. The females are some of the best I have ever seen.
The dogs look amazing. The females are some of the best I have ever seen.
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I LOVE that you hunt with your JRTs!!! Not many people do it, but it's just so natural and there's nothing I love more than watching it.
An old friend used to have a great JRT who she got because he had killed 3 goats at the breeder's farm. The day he died he had escaped from his crate (the door side was pushed up against the wall) and pushed open the window. He was found the next morning on the highway, dead, with a skunk in his mouth. He died doing what he loved (he was 15!!). He was a VERY social little guy, just took his hunting very seriously. Since meeting him I have such a great respect for people who hunt with their JRTs.
An old friend used to have a great JRT who she got because he had killed 3 goats at the breeder's farm. The day he died he had escaped from his crate (the door side was pushed up against the wall) and pushed open the window. He was found the next morning on the highway, dead, with a skunk in his mouth. He died doing what he loved (he was 15!!). He was a VERY social little guy, just took his hunting very seriously. Since meeting him I have such a great respect for people who hunt with their JRTs.
LOL well I don't do conformation. (think its kinda pointless really) But I have been on the board of directors for the Jack Russell Club of Canada, my hubby is currently the vice pres, and a judge. Health tests are a given, as is a health guarantee. I really don't sell to the pet market and only have a litter every few years or so (not planning any for another 2 years at this point), so I haven't worried about such things. Perhaps I should put them on anyway. Thanks for the imput. Its really more a site to showcase my dogs 
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You're welcome, Dekka. Otherwise, the website was nice. I think that the earth dog trials look really fun, and I just took my keesie bitch to a "Puppy Match" and we got to try out the agility equipment.
She did REALLY well, so hopefully as soon as I get her CH we will be working on agility and obedience (I feel the the two go hand in hand).
BTW- I'm glad to hear that you do health testing, and it's wonderful to hear that you have been part of a breed club.
And may I ask a question? How do you know your dogs are on standard or that they look like what they are supposed to look like if you don't do conformation?
I totally agree with most that form follows function. Perhaps I should start another thread, LOL (I think I will, so I don't have to crap on this one)
She did REALLY well, so hopefully as soon as I get her CH we will be working on agility and obedience (I feel the the two go hand in hand).
BTW- I'm glad to hear that you do health testing, and it's wonderful to hear that you have been part of a breed club.
And may I ask a question? How do you know your dogs are on standard or that they look like what they are supposed to look like if you don't do conformation?
I totally agree with most that form follows function. Perhaps I should start another thread, LOL (I think I will, so I don't have to crap on this one)
Because I have met wayyyyy to many dogs who have ch in front of their name that don't even fit their breed standard, let alone do what they were bred to do. As long as mine are within breed standard, and can do what they were bred to do, excel in some way (hunting, agility, obed etc) and have good temperments and health. I will breed them (assuming I have a waiting list, or want another 5 dogs lol) And I think that would be a great new thread! Since going back to school (for biotechnology forensics) and taking a lot of courses in DNA I have come to really question a lot of 'accepted' breeding practices.
R
Here is my opinion:
If a breeder cares nothing whatsoever about how dogs look, then breed type will eventually be lost.
Many mixed breeds you can find at the pound or wherever can herd, go to ground, retrieve, etc.
For me, the most excellent breeders spend their lives reaching for excellence both in breed type, physical soundness, temperament, and working ability. (in this instance I include super duper outgoing pet temperament in toy dogs as equal to working ability in other breeds).
This is just my opinion. I don't want to EVER settle for less in my quest to produce the healthiest most beautiful greatest companion and best working dogs.
If a breeder cares nothing whatsoever about how dogs look, then breed type will eventually be lost.
Many mixed breeds you can find at the pound or wherever can herd, go to ground, retrieve, etc.
For me, the most excellent breeders spend their lives reaching for excellence both in breed type, physical soundness, temperament, and working ability. (in this instance I include super duper outgoing pet temperament in toy dogs as equal to working ability in other breeds).
This is just my opinion. I don't want to EVER settle for less in my quest to produce the healthiest most beautiful greatest companion and best working dogs.
No one said not to care at all what they look like. Just not care what judges who may or may not know all about your breed think or know or how your dog works. The interstinly..most breeds were developed before breed clubs. If you breed for working ability type will be kept. Dogs look they way they do, because of the job they were to do, not the other way around. (lots of neat science on this, will see if I can find where the articles came from and post them) Also I dont' recommend breeding outside of standard.
Oh found one of the links in a public domain http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~tlsweb/instruction/BGYB32/B32_popular.pdf
(many of the articles in the peer reviewed journals require memberships, horray for being in school )
Oh found one of the links in a public domain http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~tlsweb/instruction/BGYB32/B32_popular.pdf
(many of the articles in the peer reviewed journals require memberships, horray for being in school
)
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R
So what about toy breeds? What about labrador retrievers? (ever seen the differences between the field dogs and the bench dogs??? Yikes) (or goldens, or gordons, or English setters, or English Springer Spaniels, or GSDs, or Dobes, or Boxers....in MOST breeds, dogs bred solely for working ability LOSE breed type)
In my personal experience in ANY BREED, if one sacrifices type for working ability, type will go away. By the same token, if one sacrifices working ability for type, guess what. That will go away too.
What I am saying is for me personally, I want a dog who LOOKS like it should (proven by competition) and who can work as well (proven by competition).
It may be a little different with JRTs. Or PRTs. (I get confused with which is what). But if you look out there across the board, in the majority of breeds when dogs are bred solely for working ability, they end up looking radically different from what the breed standard calls for.
Great discussion by the way.
In my personal experience in ANY BREED, if one sacrifices type for working ability, type will go away. By the same token, if one sacrifices working ability for type, guess what. That will go away too.
What I am saying is for me personally, I want a dog who LOOKS like it should (proven by competition) and who can work as well (proven by competition).
It may be a little different with JRTs. Or PRTs. (I get confused with which is what). But if you look out there across the board, in the majority of breeds when dogs are bred solely for working ability, they end up looking radically different from what the breed standard calls for.
Great discussion by the way.
Another thing, if you have never shown conformation, who are you to say what fits the standard or not? Not picking on anyone here, to me though, thats just like saying "Oh yeah, water skiing is easy." when you haven't ever done it. I have learned so much by standing outside the ring and talking to breeders/exhibitors. I have had experienced breeders go over my dogs and give me their opinions on my dogs good/bad points. There are always obscure phrases in breed standards that people interpret in different ways. I guess I just don't think its really possible to prove your dogs match up to your breed standard without having them judged at a show. you can always say they meet the standard, but isn;t the point of showing to PROVE that your breeding stock has suffiecient breed type etc. I mean, you wouldn't breed a non-titled working dog just because, "Well, if I actually drove him to trials he would do it, so thats just as good."
Of course, I realize in JRT/PRT's there is a BIG split in conformation vs. working. Much like the BC.
JMO as always.
Of course, I realize in JRT/PRT's there is a BIG split in conformation vs. working. Much like the BC.
JMO as always.
Your right, not many people hunt with their Jrts and so many that do ONLY have hunted once maybe twice and then think they have working dogs, not so.
It takes a lot more than that to be a working jrt.
Skunks can and do kill Jrts. The spray is toxic and great efforts are made to avoid them in the earth or in other closed in areas.
Here is a link to a real working Jack Russell Terrier kennel, they and their dogs are respected internationally especially in the working field AND in the conformation ring.
These good folks have hunted more in one week than most of us do in a lifetime. I have hunted with my Jrts for years and with success. I have never taken a dog to the field and had them fail me, but having said that.....I don't call my kennel a WORKING kennel nor do I say that I breed for Working or that my dogs are Working Jrts. I have ONE dog that has ALWAYS delievered when hunting and ONLY after several well respected Working Terriermen/women started calling him a Working Terrier, did I start to call him such. The rest of my dogs have just not been worked enough to make that leap to being called a Working Terrier, although they too have delievered in the field.
He will also not approve of a bitch to his Studs, unless they are a proven Working Bitch and has all the UP to Date testing for genetic issues.
I am pleased to say they are my friends and MENTORS, they have been for years.
http://www.jackrussell.net/
Lynn
It takes a lot more than that to be a working jrt.
Skunks can and do kill Jrts. The spray is toxic and great efforts are made to avoid them in the earth or in other closed in areas.
Here is a link to a real working Jack Russell Terrier kennel, they and their dogs are respected internationally especially in the working field AND in the conformation ring.
These good folks have hunted more in one week than most of us do in a lifetime. I have hunted with my Jrts for years and with success. I have never taken a dog to the field and had them fail me, but having said that.....I don't call my kennel a WORKING kennel nor do I say that I breed for Working or that my dogs are Working Jrts. I have ONE dog that has ALWAYS delievered when hunting and ONLY after several well respected Working Terriermen/women started calling him a Working Terrier, did I start to call him such. The rest of my dogs have just not been worked enough to make that leap to being called a Working Terrier, although they too have delievered in the field.
He will also not approve of a bitch to his Studs, unless they are a proven Working Bitch and has all the UP to Date testing for genetic issues.
I am pleased to say they are my friends and MENTORS, they have been for years.
http://www.jackrussell.net/
Lynn
A breed standard describes a breed. It says how tall what shape etc a dog should look like for the breed. An educated person in a particular breed does not need a judge to to tell them so. I am a big believer in critical thinking, thinking for ones self etc..
Labs are a great example. The working ones look like the paintings of old. The conformation ones look a lot like a shaved down newf they are so ponderously heavy. What is the purpose of having a lab so heavy and docile it won't work being held up as the pinnacle of the breed?
Take fox terriers. The JRT and FT were once the same breed. The FT went into the conformation ring, and the JRT stayed the working mans dog. Hmm now the conformation of a FT prohibits it from ever hunting fox. How did that help the breed?
How about the changes to the skull structure of bull terriers?
This is a skull from 1930
One from 1950
and one from 1980
pics credited to the Albert Heim Foundation for Canine Research, Basil, Switzerland
A breed of dog who had a certain look, and particular structure for working ability was changed. Why? for the conformation ring. Did it benefit the dog in any way? No only to make sure it is unfit for what it was bred to do.
Now collies. I met a stunning collie at a trial. It had its otch and was as a happy and athletic a dog you could meet. The owner had started herding lessons where the dog was showing great promise. I asked the owner (knowing the dog came from good lines from previous conversation) if she was going to breed the dog. The reply, no we spayed her. Her head isn't quite right to win in the ring. ??? What does the slight variation in head shape have to do with the dogs working ability, health or temperment.
Nova Scotia Duck Tolling retrievers were previously allowed to have white on the back of the neck. For some reason the breed standard was changed. Why? I have no idea. I doubt the ducks cared. So now people are throwing out the genetic information in these dogs. And this really gets me as markings are not 'set' in the DNA the way most people think.
"Tests by scientists at the University of California at Davis have confirmed that CC is an exact genetic duplicate of Rainbow. But CC's markings are quite different because markings are not fully determined by genetic coding but are the result of random molecular changes that occur during fetal development."
This has proved the same in all cloned animals so far. Markings are not a given. So great genes are being thrown away for nothing!
If you read the previous article I posted it is incredibly intersting. When breeding only for a specific behavoural trait, the morphology of the foxed changed. My argument is the breeds we have look they way they did (before the relatively new invention of the conformation show) because of what work they did.
Closed stud books and rigours breeding to a very rigid standard will ruin breeds. As sure as the earth orbits the sun...
Lets say there is a breed of dog with a pop of 100 000 (nice round number) how many will really fit the breed standard? And be free of health issues? And by of sound temperment? Lets be generous and say 10% So you take 10% of the gene pool, and throw the other 90% away. So then you breed that 10%. Even assuming that 10% were no way related (not realistic but easy to go with) If you continue to throw away 90% of your genes, rigorously culling for looks (which to me is a bit shallow anyway..just try telling your neighbour she shouldn't have kids cause her ears are a bit to low!) health and temperment. After how many years will all the dogs be related? (I will figure that out and post...having math block at the moment) This is why there are many genetic diseases popping up in breeds where there is lots of screening. Many people understand mendalian genetics. We all do it in high school. But most traits aren't clear cut either/or, we and dogs aren't pea plants. As soon as you get into polygenic traits things get tricky. Then there are traits that coded for along with others, like lethal alleles. For example there is no such thing as a true albino horse (with pink eyes) Because the genes that cause albinism also kills the foal.
Anywho essay over for the moment
Labs are a great example. The working ones look like the paintings of old. The conformation ones look a lot like a shaved down newf they are so ponderously heavy. What is the purpose of having a lab so heavy and docile it won't work being held up as the pinnacle of the breed?
Take fox terriers. The JRT and FT were once the same breed. The FT went into the conformation ring, and the JRT stayed the working mans dog. Hmm now the conformation of a FT prohibits it from ever hunting fox. How did that help the breed?
How about the changes to the skull structure of bull terriers?
This is a skull from 1930
One from 1950
and one from 1980
pics credited to the Albert Heim Foundation for Canine Research, Basil, Switzerland
A breed of dog who had a certain look, and particular structure for working ability was changed. Why? for the conformation ring. Did it benefit the dog in any way? No only to make sure it is unfit for what it was bred to do.
Now collies. I met a stunning collie at a trial. It had its otch and was as a happy and athletic a dog you could meet. The owner had started herding lessons where the dog was showing great promise. I asked the owner (knowing the dog came from good lines from previous conversation) if she was going to breed the dog. The reply, no we spayed her. Her head isn't quite right to win in the ring. ??? What does the slight variation in head shape have to do with the dogs working ability, health or temperment.
Nova Scotia Duck Tolling retrievers were previously allowed to have white on the back of the neck. For some reason the breed standard was changed. Why? I have no idea. I doubt the ducks cared. So now people are throwing out the genetic information in these dogs. And this really gets me as markings are not 'set' in the DNA the way most people think.
"Tests by scientists at the University of California at Davis have confirmed that CC is an exact genetic duplicate of Rainbow. But CC's markings are quite different because markings are not fully determined by genetic coding but are the result of random molecular changes that occur during fetal development."
This has proved the same in all cloned animals so far. Markings are not a given. So great genes are being thrown away for nothing!
If you read the previous article I posted it is incredibly intersting. When breeding only for a specific behavoural trait, the morphology of the foxed changed. My argument is the breeds we have look they way they did (before the relatively new invention of the conformation show) because of what work they did.
Closed stud books and rigours breeding to a very rigid standard will ruin breeds. As sure as the earth orbits the sun...
Lets say there is a breed of dog with a pop of 100 000 (nice round number) how many will really fit the breed standard? And be free of health issues? And by of sound temperment? Lets be generous and say 10% So you take 10% of the gene pool, and throw the other 90% away. So then you breed that 10%. Even assuming that 10% were no way related (not realistic but easy to go with) If you continue to throw away 90% of your genes, rigorously culling for looks (which to me is a bit shallow anyway..just try telling your neighbour she shouldn't have kids cause her ears are a bit to low!) health and temperment. After how many years will all the dogs be related? (I will figure that out and post...having math block at the moment) This is why there are many genetic diseases popping up in breeds where there is lots of screening. Many people understand mendalian genetics. We all do it in high school. But most traits aren't clear cut either/or, we and dogs aren't pea plants. As soon as you get into polygenic traits things get tricky. Then there are traits that coded for along with others, like lethal alleles. For example there is no such thing as a true albino horse (with pink eyes) Because the genes that cause albinism also kills the foal.
Anywho essay over for the moment
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S
Dekka I would have to agree with you on the whole conformation of a working dog thing. I think it is completely irrelivant. I am sorry, but I have seen pomeranian after pomeranian (the toys that redyre was talking about), with CH. in front of their name. The thing is, is that a lot of these dogs with the CH. in front of their name are as far away from breed standard as you can get without being disqualified. How is that right? You go to show after show until your dog picks up enough points for it championship.
Perfect example is of a lady I know. Very well known around here for having some of the best pomeranians....uh huh. She shows them as puppies, they get their championship, and once they are a couple years old she retires them because their hair falls out!!!
Sorry, but I really don't think conformation showing is as great as everyone makes it out to be. As a matter of fact, I think it has (ruined) some of the working breeds.
Perfect example is of a lady I know. Very well known around here for having some of the best pomeranians....uh huh. She shows them as puppies, they get their championship, and once they are a couple years old she retires them because their hair falls out!!!
Sorry, but I really don't think conformation showing is as great as everyone makes it out to be. As a matter of fact, I think it has (ruined) some of the working breeds.