Changing views on pits, one person at a time

[Amstaffer]

Alright. So you're one of those people who think all dogs are good inside and if the dog is agressive then its owners fault?

Dogs are like people, they have traits How the owner (or parents in the case of the child) will dictate what the adult dog (or human) will be.

Some people who have dominant tendencies that are raise by parents who abuse them or encourage violence, often create a violent adult or even a criminal who attacks others.

I have a male Amstaff who is dominant with other dogs but I have channeled this energy to friendly playful behavior. Because of that he plays rough with other dogs but has yet (In five years) to show signs of aggression (even after getting bit by a golden who's ball my dog took from him).

What many people don't understand about dogs is that dominant does not equal aggressive. Dominance can easily be turned into aggression but it can also be channeled in other ways. Take Allen Iverson for example, he is a dominant human but his energies of dominance have been aimed in another direction....get the picture. High drive is the same way in border collies....just easier to channel.

 

[AshenBoy]

very well said.

___________________________________________________________________

There is no such thing as a bad dog, just bad owners

 

[oriondw]

Dogs are like people, they have traits How the owner (or parents in the case of the child) will dictate what the adult dog (or human) will be.

Some people who have dominant tendencies that are raise by parents who abuse them or encourage violence, often create a violent adult or even a criminal who attacks others.

I have a male Amstaff who is dominant with other dogs but I have channeled this energy to friendly playful behavior. Because of that he plays rough with other dogs but has yet (In five years) to show signs of aggression (even after getting bit by a golden who's ball my dog took from him).

What many people don't understand about dogs is that dominant does not equal aggressive. Dominance can easily be turned into aggression but it can also be channeled in other ways. Take Allen Iverson for example, he is a dominant human but his energies of dominance have been aimed in another direction....get the picture. High drive is the same way in border collies....just easier to channel.

I didnt say anything about dominance in my sentence... if you didnt notice.

Nice of you to wiggle out of a question.

 

[oriondw]

What do you believe? That sounds about perfectly right. Even a dog with bad temperament can be rehabiliated... in reality, dogs with bad temperament... are a lot more... sensitive, you could say. They're quick to use aggression if they feel it's needed (which can be just about anything--hence, very sensitive) but this can be corrected. It takes the right owner.

If dog/cat/animal runs toward most specimens of my breeds and the the specimen does not know the approaching animal very well, they will in all the probability neutralize it.

Its in the gene's. It cant be rehabilitated. Same way that its impossible to teach my breed NOT to protect.

Natural Aggressiveness can NOT be trained out. ( I lost track of how many times I said this)

Same goes for pitbulls and their prey drive / animal aggression.

 

[Amstaffer]

I didnt say anything about dominance in my sentence... if you didnt notice.

Nice of you to wiggle out of a question.

Wiggle out of the question? Look who is talking, as you completely dodged the racism comparsion and defending your statement with logic.

How did I wiggle? My very first sentence answered you very well. "Dogs are like people, they have traits How the owner (or parents in the case of the child) will dictate what the adult dog (or human) will be."

I don't think all dogs are good.....just like people, Dogs and people are made or are a sum of their experiences. No dog is born bad, they might have traits that might make them easier to corrupt but they are not bad.

Many dogs that police get from shelters to train for search work are labeled "bad" but they are trained and nutured to be a blessing for mankind. For the last 10,000 plus years the dog has been bending over backwards to make us happy any way it can. Mankind needs to shoulder any blame or fault for what our "best friend" does to please us.

 

[mrose_s]

penny souunds lovely. i was lucky in that all my young life my auntie had staffies and pit mixes
YEY PENNY

 

[Amstaffer]

Natural Aggressiveness can NOT be trained out. ( I lost track of how many times I said this)

Same goes for pitbulls and their prey drive / animal aggression.

Well I don't know much about your "breed" but I know for a fact because I have seen it done, that you can train a pitbull thats aggressive towards other dogs and teach it not to act on this aggression. Just like you can teach a Lab who loves to chase the ball to stay and not chase it.

Have you ever watched the "Dog Whisperer" ( http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/dogwhisperer/ ) he has "changed" many aggressive dogs (Pitbulls, Rotts etc...) I really think you would enjoy and learn something about dog behavior if you check this show out.

Its in the gene's. It cant be rehabilitated. Same way that its impossible to teach my breed NOT to protect.

Natural Aggressiveness can NOT be trained out. ( I lost track of how many times I said this).

By the way Aggression is a response to stimulus not a trait, Dominance is a trait that can lead to aggression if the dog is not taught how to respond correctly. So your statement about "natural aggression" is flawed.

 

[BigDog2191]

If dog/cat/animal runs toward most specimens of my breeds and the the specimen does not know the approaching animal very well, they will in all the probability neutralize it.

Its in the gene's. It cant be rehabilitated. Same way that its impossible to teach my breed NOT to protect.

Natural Aggressiveness can NOT be trained out. ( I lost track of how many times I said this)

Same goes for pitbulls and their prey drive / animal aggression.

There's a difference between having bad temperament and having high protective instincts.

But if you were to be confronted with such a thing that you KNOW is not a threat, you should be able to control your dog.

 

[oriondw]

There's a difference between having bad temperament and having high protective instincts.

But if you were to be confronted with such a thing that you KNOW is not a threat, you should be able to control your dog.

Obviously.

But I think that dog control is not what this thread is about, but it is about the natural tendencies of the breeds.

 

[BigDog2191]

And pits can be controlled not to attack other dogs. Really with enough socialization a pit will be friendly with another dog but like ANY breed will require supervision. Some of the nicest dogs I've ever met-- DOG-WISE-- were pits.

To be honest, the only VERY dog-aggressive dog I've seen was a chocolate lab.

 

[oriondw]

And pits can be controlled not to attack other dogs. Really with enough socialization a pit will be friendly with another dog but like ANY breed will require supervision. Some of the nicest dogs I've ever met-- DOG-WISE-- were pits.

To be honest, the only VERY dog-aggressive dog I've seen was a chocolate lab.

Dont really care.

I've met a load of nasty pits and never seen a lab be aggressive in the way pits were.

 

[BigDog2191]

If you don't care, why are you replying to this thread? Nice try though...

It doesn't matter how nasty you think they were. Aggression is aggression. Pits do more damage but it also takes them a lot more to become aggressive. Hence, it was the owners fault. Pits aren't born nasty. Simple as that.

 

[oriondw]

If you don't care, why are you replying to this thread? Nice try though...

It doesn't matter how nasty you think they were. Aggression is aggression. Pits do more damage but it also takes them a lot more to become aggressive. Hence, it was the owners fault. Pits aren't born nasty. Simple as that.

Its pits natural trait to have high prey drive and have animal aggression tendencies.

Also they should not be human aggressive.

Coupled with poor breeding practices...

 

[FattyBumBlastie]

Its pits natural trait to have high prey drive and have animal aggression tendencies.

Also they should not be human aggressive.

Coupled with poor breeding practices...

Wow, I didn't realize this thread had descended into this.

I don't know how you can make such blanket statements. My pit has virtually no prey drive and she is not aggressive at all towards other animals. She has loved every dog she has met. She has always been like this and has never been to obedience school or had any sort of training to be like this. It's just her personality. When it comes to Penny, you're statement is clearly wrong.

 

[Amstaffer]

Wow, I didn't realize this thread had descended into this.

I don't know how you can make such blanket statements. My pit has virtually no prey drive and she is not aggressive at all towards other animals. She has loved every dog she has met. She has always been like this and has never been to obedience school or had any sort of training to be like this. It's just her personality. When it comes to Penny, you're statement is clearly wrong.

Blanket statements are always wrong but people use them because it makes it easier for them to organize things in their mind....Pitty because so many people and animals suffer from the ignorance of Stereotypes, racism and blanket statements.

I have a friend that has a Pitbull that has been attacked twice (cockerspaniel and boxer) and has submitted both times....no aggression at all. I am convinced his dog is the most easy going dog in the world.

If you have seen "Plenty" of nasty pits, you better find a new nieghborhood because that means you live by a bunch of "A"holes! Its not the dogs fault

 

[rottiegirl]

I don't know how you can make such blanket statements. My pit has virtually no prey drive and she is not aggressive at all towards other animals. She has loved every dog she has met. She has always been like this and has never been to obedience school or had any sort of training to be like this. It's just her personality. When it comes to Penny, you're statement is clearly wrong.

Correctly bred pits are supposed to have very high prey drives, just like a JRT. And alot of them do have aggressive tendancies towards other dogs. Just thought I would throw that in there.

 

[Amstaffer]

Correctly bred pits are supposed to have very high prey drives, just like a JRT. And alot of them do have aggressive tendancies towards other dogs. Just thought I would throw that in there.

"Correctly" bred pits should NOT have very high prey drives! This is no longer a good thing in the breed. That was encourage during the fighting days but there is no need for it now because they are show dogs and weight pulling dogs now....neither of which needs high prey drive.

A lot of them have Dominance tendancies towards other dogs.....this does not have to be aggressivness! It only becomes aggressivness if the owner doesn't know what the heck they are doing. If raised correctly, Pits and Amstaffs are some of the most tolerant dogs around! I am starting to wonder about some circles some of the posters here hang in.

 

[rottiegirl]

"Correctly" bred pits should NOT have very high prey drives! This is no longer a good thing in the breed. That was encourage during the fighting days but there is no need for it now because they are show dogs and weight pulling dogs now....neither of which needs high prey drive.

Pits are working dogs, and every working dog should have a good drive! If they didnt have a drive then they wouldnt be considered a working breed. Even for weight pulling they need a drive!! If they didnt have a drive then they wouldnt want to do anything. A good breeder will produce pups that have high drive. I dont believe that you should screw with a breeds temperment! You dont want to make a working breed into a couch potato! And yes, there are well bred pits out there that are very intolerant of other dogs, its just apart of the breed. Alot of pits, staffies, shar peis, bull terriers, and any other fighting breed loves a good fight! And yes, those breeds will start a fight. When a pit or any other working breed wont even play fetch, there is something very wrong with its temperment. I have met a boxer before that wouldnt even chase a tennis ball, that is what you call a very low drive!

 

[DoggyLuva1128]

I think people are so **** ignorant when it comes to pit bulls. My rednose pit is a big baby and never barks at anyone, only drug addicts. He is the biggest sweetheart. And he even picked up traits from my nephew. When I disciplined my nephew I would tell him come here or u'll get in trouble and count to 3 so I'D go oonnne twooo threee and my nephew would run to me. So my dog philly picked it up so if he has tissue in his mouth I'd say Philly Drop it! If not I'd say oonne twwooo and then he'll let it go. All philly loves is love and affection. And if he's breaking something he stays in his kennel for a little while as punishment. But other then that he's one of the best dogs and super friendly. He loves everyone and gives little kids piggy back rides willingly. I' never force him to but he tried pulling them to him. It's really cute! So I believe people need to stop thinking negatively of them because it's the owner that makes the dog who it is. If u treat a dog with love and respect he'll return it.
I also believe people shouldn't hit their dogs for sniffing stuff or just for doing dogly things because in reality he's a dog. He's not meant to be perfect or a body guard, but to be your friend so people shouldn't expect anything else!

 

[Amstaffer]

Pits are working dogs, and every working dog should have a good drive! If they didnt have a drive then they wouldnt be considered a working breed. Even for weight pulling they need a drive!! If they didnt have a drive then they wouldnt want to do anything. A good breeder will produce pups that have high drive. I dont believe that you should screw with a breeds temperment! You dont want to make a working breed into a couch potato! And yes, there are well bred pits out there that are very intolerant of other dogs, its just apart of the breed. Alot of pits, staffies, shar peis, bull terriers, and any other fighting breed loves a good fight! And yes, those breeds will start a fight. When a pit or any other working breed wont even play fetch, there is something very wrong with its temperment. I have met a boxer before that wouldnt even chase a tennis ball, that is what you call a very low drive!

First...Pits are not working breeds (but some do work) they are in the terrier group.

2nd...Pulling pits don't need prey drive, just the desire to please their owner....and that is what pits and amstaff have tons of! Just ask someone who raises Malamutes for pulling, they are getting tired of being out pulled by pitbulls half their size.

"Well Bred" that phrase means alot to you because you are a big believer in Nature over Nuture (I can tell by your other threads) and most studies show that traits are genetics and behaviors are learned. Well bred pitbull can be a super dangerous dog.....if the owner has abused and encouraged aggressive behavior. You can rescue a dog from a fighting dog breeding operation and raise that dog to be a complete sweetheart, How do I know....I have done it.

My Athena's mother was carring 6 puppies when she was rescued during a raid on a fighting dog operation in Rockford IL 9 years ago. Athena has been a wonderful, sweet and tolerant dog for 8+ years. The only time she has even remotely shown aggressive was when a big GSD (100+ lbs) tried to mount her. She didn't bite....just lots of teeth and growling, but hey can you blame her? lol