Breeding a Rescue (hypothetical question)

[Brattina88]

This is something that happens to me quite often - someone approaches me on a walk and tells me how beautiful Missy is , and then they continue to ask me if she is spayed, and then where I got her from.

Today I had a very nice discussion with a man who claimed he has a retired show bitch, we talked about dogs in general, and he invited me to come and see her (no thanks lol). Anyway, he asked me where I got her from first. I told him the pound, told him how skinny she was, and then how sick she was, etc etc. Then he asked me if she is spayed, which, of course, she is . . .

We discussed breeding dogs that come from rescues or pounds. He said that if the dog is to standard, and you get health tests done, he thinks its okay. I am not a breeder, but I disagreed and said I wouldn't because you don't know the parents, etc etc. He said if her body is sound, tests were okay, and temperament was sound then he saw no reason not to. I had a good time debating this with him, it was a pleasant debate and we ended up agreeing with each other partly, and then I continued on my walk.

So, my question is what do you guys think? Ethical, unethical? I've heard of people doing this, but always immeadiatly thought BYB, puppymill, bad breeder. Maybe not? I mean, the odds of getting a show dog quality from the pound may be slim (of course I think Missy is gorgeous, but not show quality I'm thinkin) but what if???

 

[MafiaPrincess]

No pedigree, no history, no idea what the dog comes from. No thanks..

People ask me all the time when Cider's having puppies. Lot of people assumed it was the reason I was getting a male, and are pissy when I point out Cider's spayed..

 

[StillandSilent]

I would never. Without knowing the family history, I wouldn't be able to match the dog up with an appropriate mate. However, what if the dog was turned into rescue with the AKC papers intact? While uncommon, I can think of several times that this has happened at our shelter. All of those dogs got the quick snip-snip and were adopted to pet homes. I still don't think it woudl be a good idea.

 

[Doberluv]

Too many dogs in shelters that need homes without producing more of unknown background.

Enough reputable breeders to produce purebreds.

Those two venues.....mixed breeds and purebreds already are covered. Don't need more.

It sounds like you had a good chat though. Can you imagine? I'm glad you didn't go home with him. What if he were a serial killer. LOL.

 

[Siberian Mom]

I acually "rescued" my female Alaska(siberian husky). it was because the people were moving and could not keep her. but she was out side all the time with a chain around her neck that was way to small, so i think that it was just luck that they had to give her away and she came to a better home(so i think we rescued her). this will now be her 4rth home in her first she had been beaten, her second was a foster home, her third was the people we got her from and now us. it took a while for us to acually touch her due to the beating, scared of men, being from a farm and now in the city, as well as living in the house. she did come around though. i had noticed she had a tattoo and here she is a papered bitch and a beautiful one at that we did contact the ckc and akc for this and had her tested for eyes and hips. and had her looked at by husky breeders as well as a few judges in the area that my boss knew. she is an excellent specimin of the breed(i hate to say that, i just know shes beautiful and sweet) and we did breed her. and im definitly not a BYB i'm not going to make really any money off of them after shot vet visits and time off of work. and i did have them all spoken for(and deposits) before we bred her. and i did make sure these people that are going to take them are suitable for this breed because i know if they arent with the right owner they can cause some trouble. we also have contracts to fix them and progress reports to know how they are doing.

 

[wolfsoul]

The background of a dog is extremely important, so unless the dog was also dropped off with it's papers and a pedigree, then it would be very unethical to breed it. Give me a groenendael pedigree and I can tell you which dogs in the pedigree had epilepsy, cataracts, had a sibling with immune issues, had a pup with hip dysplasia, etc etc. Almost every pedigree will have alot of this which is why it's important to know the lines and weigh the options. If you don't know the lines, you don't know what you may be doubling up on and it could end in disaster.

 

[Purdue#1]

most shelters alter their dogs anyway so finding a show quality dog with papers that is not altered at a shelter is very slim.

even if they did not alter their dogs i still would not breed it. Why breed a dog that has been through the shelter already and contribute to problem that got it there in the first place?

 

[FoxyWench]

if im gettign a dog with the purpose of breeding i not only want a gorgeous example of the breed with amazing temperment and perfect on all health tests (or as close to) but i also want to knwo that dogs liniage, i want to knwo the parents health and temperment, resessive traits in the line, whether the line are freewhelpers or not, any behavioural problems ANYWHERE in the line...if i cant get a hold of that information i dont feel i have enough information to breed correctly.

so i agree with you. NO a dog from the pound (or any situation in which the background and parantage are unknown) should not be bred.

 

[meco]

Its very unlikely that any one would recieve a dog, from either a shelter, rescue and or Pound that is unaltered. To get papers totally unheard of!

As stated there are enouph unwanted dogs, cats, pups and kittens, why produce more????

 

[MaryAndDobes]

I'm a breeder that is also active in rescue. As a rescue person, we often get in intact dogs and yes, some of them arrive with registrations and papers. I would NEVER consider breeding a rescue dog even if I did know its history. It goes against every facet of rescue!

When we get in a dog that can be traced to a breeder, the breeder is contacted and asked if they will take it back. If they will, great. If they won't, it's just a sign of the type of the breeder they are and no matter how great looking the dog is, why would anyone want to tie themselves to that name by breeding the dog? Why would you want to further their cause? The dog found itself into rescue, and rescue dogs should be altered - period. No ifs, ands or buts.

Breeding a rescue dog sure is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

If breeding a nice dog were someone's goal, why wouldn't they acquire one from a good breeder, a mentor, and start from there???

 

[MaryAndDobes]

I acually "rescued" my female Alaska(siberian husky). ...and we did breed her. and im definitly not a BYB

Some of us will beg to differ.

 

[meco]

Some of us will beg to differ.

Well spoken!

 

[Siberian Mom]

this is absolutly pathetic being called a BYB. I AM NOT. just because people have different veiws does not automatically make them a BYB either the people that are taking my three pups are all good people and im not making money off of them and am only breeding her this once. and a BYB pretty much does the excact opposite

 

[RedyreRottweilers]

Just a few questions?

Is your bitch registered, and will the litter be registered?

Is either breeding partner titled?

What health testing exactly have you done?

How does your bitch compare to the breed standard re: faults and virtues?

How about the stud dog?

What faults in your bitch do you hope to improve?

What virtues do you hope to keep?

What does this particular breeding have to offer as improvement to the Siberian Husky breed?

 

[lakotasong]

Some of us will beg to differ.

:hail::hail::hail::hail:

As someone who has been involved with Siberians for nine and a half years, I can say with certainty that what you (Siberian Mom) do is NOT considered ethical by anyone seriously involved in the breed.

 

[Brattina88]

So, with the exception of one member, that was my point. No history, no way. Using Missy as an example, yes she's a beautiful and well mannered dog, and I would love a puppy "just like her" but that's not how it works!
Breeding is not that simple, and I hold not only myself, but good breeders to a high standard. And we should!

It sounds like you had a good chat though. Can you imagine? I'm glad you didn't go home with him. What if he were a serial killer. LOL.

See... I'm not paranoid - I considered that very same thought!
It was an interesting chat though, and I trusted Missy's instincs - she kept on eye on him, but was relaxed. I haven't met anyone yet who would try something with Missy by my side lol

most shelters alter their dogs anyway so finding a show quality dog with papers that is not altered at a shelter is very slim.

Depends on you location... I spayed Missy by choice, but she was from a pound (and of course, no papers). Some of the rescues who are a network of foster homes don't alter their pets - they reimburse the new owners when they get them fixed...

Red - I thought for half a second you were referring to me *smacks head* :lol-sign:

 

[adoptashelterpettoday]

Its very unlikely that any one would recieve a dog, from either a shelter, rescue and or Pound that is unaltered. To get papers totally unheard of!

As stated there are enouph unwanted dogs, cats, pups and kittens, why produce more????

Lots of shelters/rescues adopt dogs out in tact. It shouldnt happen but it does.

ALso second statement isnt true. We had a pure bred GSD surrendered with his papers.

Sorry to say Siberian but I also agree. Is your female titled? It doesnt sound like she has a really great temperment. Will the puppies be sent out with spay/neuter contracts if they were not show quality? If the answer to any of those questions is no, then you are a BYB.

Anyone who considers breeding a rescue dog is not a rescuer in any way what so ever. It is NOT right. The point of rescue is to stop the overpopulation not add to it and the chances of finding a papered, up to standard dog in a shelter are slim to none. Your dog has had a rough enough time and if you want to breed I would suggest talking with a reputable breeder and purchasing a show quality pup.




"Definition of a backyard breeder (BYB) · 498 days ago by textpattern
A BYB is the average pet owner that breeds their dog(s).

Most of the general public thinks that just because they have papers on their dog, that means their dog is breed material. All papers mean is that the dog(s) parents were registered, and nothing more. It does NOT mean QUALITY! It does NOT mean the dog is CORRECT for the Standards for that breed. Most of the dogs that are registered are NOT breed material, but make fine pets.

WHAT THEY DO (and what they DON’T DO)

1) They breed dogs that are not correct for the Standards for health, temperament, and how they suppose to look. This is why many of the back-yard breedings that take place produce puppies which grows into adults that are incorrect.

2) They breed dogs that have the same faults, which in turn, compounds faults into the puppies.

3) They do not know the breed standards for the breed they are breeding.

4) They do not know what genetic (health) issues are for the breed they are breeding, they say that there are NO problems associated with the breed, or ask, “what problems?”

5) They are not there for you IF you have problems or questions through-out the lifetime of your dog.

6) They do not require spay/neuter contracts, nor do they supply you with a written contract/guarantee, nor do they require the dog be returned to them if you can no longer keep the animal.

7) They think they can make just a little money breeding.

8) Some will screen potential buyers and some won’t. Most really don’t care what happens to the puppy after it leaves their house.

WHY THEY CREATE DAMAGE

1) With them not requiring spay/neuters, when those dogs are eventually bred (as most will do), then it compounds the problems… more and more dogs are being produced in an overly populated world already. Just go to your local shelter and look at all those dogs. They were someone’s pet at some point in their life. Most of them would come from someone just wanting to breed their pets just once or twice.

2) By continued irresponsible breeding(s), more and more dogs end up in rescue, shelters, dumped, research labs, used as bait dogs for dog fighting (YES IT STILL HAPPENS!!!!!) or at the hands of commerical dog breeders (Puppy Mill Breeders) or commerical brokers (Puppy Mill Brokers).
Note: Brokers buy from the commercial dog breeders and sell directly to the PetStores or directly to the Public"
Source: http://www.backyardbreeder.com/

 

[Doberluv]

I'm a breeder that is also active in rescue. As a rescue person, we often get in intact dogs and yes, some of them arrive with registrations and papers. I would NEVER consider breeding a rescue dog even if I did know its history. It goes against every facet of rescue!

When we get in a dog that can be traced to a breeder, the breeder is contacted and asked if they will take it back. If they will, great. If they won't, it's just a sign of the type of the breeder they are and no matter how great looking the dog is, why would anyone want to tie themselves to that name by breeding the dog? Why would you want to further their cause? The dog found itself into rescue, and rescue dogs should be altered - period. No ifs, ands or buts.

Breeding a rescue dog sure is scraping the bottom of the barrel.

If breeding a nice dog were someone's goal, why wouldn't they acquire one from a good breeder, a mentor, and start from there???

:hail:

Just a few questions?

Is your bitch registered, and will the litter be registered?

Is either breeding partner titled?

What health testing exactly have you done?

How does your bitch compare to the breed standard re: faults and virtues?

How about the stud dog?

What faults in your bitch do you hope to improve?

What virtues do you hope to keep?

What does this particular breeding have to offer as improvement to the Siberian Husky breed?

:hail:

And if you could not touch her due to shyness and fear, what portion of that fear do you know for a fact was due to mistreatment and what portion was due to temperament? How could you tell that her temperament is sound?

There's more to breeding dogs than most people realize, unfortunately. And a reputable breeder's dog would never end up in a shelter because they make darn sure that they have the first right of refusal if it doesn't work out for someone.

Nope....there are enough dogs already being bred by experienced people and there are more than enough..........millions and millions being euthanized daily.

 

[showpug]

What would be the point? Without papers and pedigree you can't register the litter, can't compete in conformation etc. so I don't understand what the breeding goals would be? How can you improve upon the next generation when you don't even know what's behind the dog you are breeding?

Edited to add - this post was not meant to sound as if conformation is the only breeding goal. But, when you can't compete in any avenue with a dog, conformation being an example, then you can't title the dog etc. I just wouldn't understand the point or goals involved.

 

[MafiaPrincess]

Sounds like a case for the BYB's big book of excuses. Looks like a duck.. walks like a duck.. talks like a duck.. gee wonder what it could be.