Beyond CM

Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Danefied, Nov 22, 2012.

  1. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    One husband of 15 years
    Location:
    Southeast
    Anyone on that FB group?

    I just recently joined at the urging of some IRL friends, and the first post I come across is major breeder bashing.
    Followed by trolling of other pages to share pics and videos and pick them apart.
    Constant personal attacks, instead of discussing the methods.
    *I* got attacked for saying its disingenuous to post a picture of an imbedded prong injury and call it a training injury. I got questioned about my intentions of being on the site and demanded to know what tools I use.

    Really???

    If this is the image positive trainers are forging for themselves I despair.
    NONE of my IRL PR trainer friends are like this at ALL!!
     
  2. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    One husband of 15 years
    Location:
    Southeast
    Oh the irony! The thread where I posted essentially the same thing I’m saying here just got deleted....
     
  3. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog, 1 guinea pig, 1 hamster, 1 American toad, 1
    Location:
    Illinois
    :eek:

    All I can say is, some "Positive" trainers are nothing short of crazy, sadly.

    Funny, I just had to switch a client dog from a head halter to a prong. The head halter was working great for them in many ways except it was rubbing the poor dog's nose raw, no matter what we did. Tried several brands, tried padding the noseband, no dice.

    Too bad I don't have a picture of it for you. TRAINING INJURY!
     
  4. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    One husband of 15 years
    Location:
    Southeast
    Its really unfortunate... It seems like some folks on there have a lot of wonderful information to share, but it gets completely lost in the snark fest. I’m pretty secure in my training and my beliefs, I can’t imagine how someone new to the page or a lurker looking for some ideas - Beyond CM - might feel seeing what is said on that page :(
     
  5. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    That group is filled with so much nasty and meanness it's amazing.

    Were you the one who said something on that Dozer person's thread that got deleted?
     
  6. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    One husband of 15 years
    Location:
    Southeast
    Yeppers... I said the admin’s comment sounded like she was either threatening you or calling you an idiot and apologies if I misread.

    It’s just such a shame to have so much good information go to waste just because a few can’t grow some people skills!!
     
  7. Linds

    Linds Twin 2

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2008
    Messages:
    7,099
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    36
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Illinois
    Yeah, there is very little actual training discussion that goes on there. It's a giant bash fest. They scour the internet for things they deem inappropriate and then rip those people to shreds like pack of wild dogs. It's sad. It's not constructive. And it's certainly not going to help anyone learn to train.

    For a big group of "positive" trainers they are more cruel on that group than you would think possible.

    Which is why I chimed in for the first time ever on that thread that got deleted.
     
  8. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    One husband of 15 years
    Location:
    Southeast
    Off putting for sure :(

    I posted a “thought”. Hoping they at least think about it...
     
  9. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog, 1 guinea pig, 1 hamster, 1 American toad, 1
    Location:
    Illinois
    I just found the group and read your thought, very well said.
     
  10. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    One husband of 15 years
    Location:
    Southeast
    Aw shucks! Thanks :)
     
  11. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 1 cat
    Location:
    NC
    Home Page:
    There's a reason that I'm on VERY few fb or yahoo groups for trainers...just way too much "my way or the highway" and bashing and very little constructive information sharing. :p
     
  12. Danefied

    Danefied New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2010
    Messages:
    1,722
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    One husband of 15 years
    Location:
    Southeast
    I think I could tolerate if it were all “my way or the highway†but trolling other sites to share their pics and videos only to bash them is beyond petty. Now they’re pissing off a pit bull rescue because of some picture of a pitty in a prong. *sigh*

    Interestingly, I shared a video of my daughter and Breez as a counter example to a video of kids & dogs training that they were bashing. One person said something about the video I put up. ONE. Apparently if its not bashable, its not worth discussing. Really??
     
  13. Emily

    Emily Rollin' with my bitches

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    2,115
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    1 dog, 1 guinea pig, 1 hamster, 1 American toad, 1
    Location:
    Illinois
    :) It can be REALLY hard to be a sensible R+ trainer on the internet, luckily we seem to have an abundance of those on Chaz!
     
  14. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 1 cat
    Location:
    NC
    Home Page:
    Yea - they like drama apparently. :p
     
  15. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    9 not counting ducks, chickens, and fish
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Yes, I dont mind "one way only" in a group if thats what it claims but pretty much ALL the do is dredge up stuff to bitch about. It used to be a more informative group, or at least it seemed that way when I joined awhile back. Havent been there forever because its just not worth it....and I am someone who LOVES a good debate....thats not what they do there though:(
     
  16. stardogs

    stardogs Behavior Nerd

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    4,925
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 1 cat
    Location:
    NC
    Home Page:
    I guess I meant more the "do it my way ...or ELSE" behavior vs. just "only discuss x types of training". Ironic since they are so anti making dogs work to avoid "or ELSE" consequences. >.<
     
  17. Greenmagick

    Greenmagick New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2011
    Messages:
    3,199
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    9 not counting ducks, chickens, and fish
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Gotcha:) Yes, there is a way to have a discussion of where other methods fail and why this method is promoted without resorting to outright attacks and bashing.
     
  18. Shai

    Shai & the Muttly Crew

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2009
    Messages:
    6,215
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    People are crazy. Just sayin.

    When the crazies start congregating is when it really gets scary. Not to mention pointless and often downright harmful to their "cause."

    And unfortunately it is these sorts that anyone who's ever held a clicker gets lumped in with by those who are equally rabidly opposed to "clicker training" and all that label conjures.
     
  19. OwnedByBCs

    OwnedByBCs Will Creep For Sheep

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    588
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    5
    Location:
    Colorado
    Home Page:
    Honestly I can't stand training discussions. Ever. I'm really not much of a trainer myself- I like teaching my dogs stupid tricks and all that, but when it comes to seminars and training classes I am so not interested. Why? Because most of the trainers I end up with tell me that I'm doing something wrong, even if its producing the desired result. Sorry, I am not of the opinion that learning is done in one specific way.

    And yes, I am a "learning based" trainer in the sense that I believe that a clicker and treats are the most powerful tools in dog training- and those are generally the only tools I use. I don't use prongs or chokes or e-collars on my own dogs, ever. Do I think it's wrong to use them on other dogs? Eh, I don't know. I feel like I've never really been shown how a prong improved an owner or a dog's life. But I'm not going to say I never correct my dogs..

    I enjoy dog behavior, and I understand it. But for some reason, when people start talking about it, I shut down. Maybe it's because I believe that positive trainers need to be positive with PEOPLE too, or the point is totally lost!
     
  20. AdrianneIsabel

    AdrianneIsabel Glutton for Crazy

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2010
    Messages:
    8,893
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 Pit bulls and 2 Malinois, We like to stay busy.
    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Home Page:
    I now want to join and see if any of my videos are on there... lol
     

Share This Page