BC breeders, Ontario-wise?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by Beanie, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    I have a friend who is about to move into her first home and she is now ready to get a dog, after having lost her childhood dog (a BC mix) a while back to old age. She wants to do agility at least, maybe also Disc Dog or Flyball.

    So far these are the breeders she's contacted - I don't think she has heard back from them yet, she just e-mailed them a few days ago.
    http://www.burhillbordercollies.com/
    http://www.tntbordercollies.com/
    http://www.moyhall.com/

    Anybody up that way have opinions on these breeders? Or do you have another recommendation for her that I can pass along?

    TIA for any help!! =>
     
  2. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    I don't know any of the breeders personally but I have met a couple of the TNT dogs, and they are very nice drivey dogs.
     
  3. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Hmmm.

    If I had to go with 1 of the 3 you listed. It'd be the 1st one. They are the only ones that seem to breed working dogs.

    Of the other 2.....neither.

    I know there are a fwe working breeders in Canada.....

    Scott Glen in the Alberta Canada.

    Amanda Milliken in the Kingston, ON, Canada.
     
  4. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

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    Just scanned the website.

    Site #1 - no listed titles on any dogs, the only dog with listed health tests is the male, and all the breedings they are doing are to their own stud dog. 9 times out of 10 the best stud for your bitch is not in your backyard.

    Site 2- titles and health checks listed for each dog.

    Site 3- titles and health checks listed for each dog.

    Would your friend consider a rescue for her next dog or is she set on buying from a breeder?
     
  5. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Just because they don't list the health testing they have done, doesn't by any means mean they don't do it.


    I definitely, do NOT agree with this.
     
  6. RD

    RD Are you dead yet?

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    Would she be willing to consider a rescue?

    I'm not sure if I'd buy from any of those breeders. The first one doesn't seem to do much with their dogs, I don't see much evidence that their dogs work stock or participate in any sports. The other two look like sport breeders, just not my kind of dogs...
     
  7. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    I know dogs from one of those three kennels. Drivey drivey dogs.. who rock the sport world.. and I haven't met one with an off switch so far.. One is so high strung he nearly went through a second floor window when he couldn't settle one day. The day before it had been just screen, that day the window was shut.. thankfully for him. I'm not sure about the other breeders dogs.. but the lack of settling ability when not working (and having been stimulated enough that they should settle) is a big turn off.

    It's actually why I have always hated JRTs with a passion... Seems I only met badly bred ones.. as Dekka's settle indoors when not doing anything.. Lack of off switch is an issue for me. Not sure if it would be an issue for your friend.
     
  8. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    At this point, I think she really wants to stick to dogs from a breeder. Her old dog was a rescue, and she will probably rescue for her second dog, but right now, she and I both agree that a breeder dog is the best move for her at this point.

    The lady from TNT got in touch with her and told her that she doesn't recommend her dogs to anybody without a farm because they are so extremely drivey, so I think she's pretty much crossed that one off her list. (Was TNT the kennel with dogs without an off switch, MafiaPrincess? I'm guessing they are...) TNT recommended Moy Hall to her, though, so she's checking them out further. She's also going to a flyball tournament next weekend... I think she's going to find out a LOT more just by talking to people at the tourney.

    I know none of the breeders fit what I'd like to see in a sheltie breeder so I understand everybody's hesitations or raised eyebrows. I like to see titles in confirmation, herding, AND agility... proof that the dog looks like it should, does what it should, and can perform in the sport ring too. I think if she could find a BC breeder like that, she'd be more than happy with her dog.
     
  9. MafiaPrincess

    MafiaPrincess Obvious trollsare Obvious

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    Yeah it's TNT. I just didn't want to talk badly about people I don't think badly of.. if that made sense.

    What part of Ontario does your friend live in? She might want to meet some people in a few different sports, see what people have to say. There's a ton of AAC agility in Ontario, if she's local to any of it she might have fun hanging and talking to people there too.
     
  10. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    I wouldn't worry TOO much about lack of conformation stuff. It was only last year (against much fuss from most of the BC breeders) that they BC was put back into the CKC. Herding is good though.
     
  11. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Me personally, I wouldn't want to see any of those titles on a breeder's BCs.

    Why don't you try and contact those that I listed? Working BCs make can make for great sport dogs.

    And you DON'T need a farm to have one ;)
     
  12. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    Lizmo why wouldnt you want to see any CKC proformance tittles on a border collie
     
  13. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    Border Collies are a working breed. Not a show breed.

    Have a BC for doing sports is perfectly fine! :) But I wouldn't want them bred. Working bred Borders do very well in sport homes - and most working BC breeders are more than happy to place a dog in those type of homes on a non-breeder or s/n contract.
     
  14. JennSLK

    JennSLK F150 and a .30-06

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    So your saying that proformance titles mean nothing? Just because it competes in CKC events doesnt mean it wouldnt make a great working dog and shouldnt be bred. Perhaps the ownes prefer agility over hearding. It doesnt mean that they arent keeping the drive intact. Having a title isnt a reason not to breed a dog
     
  15. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

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    Lizmo I think if they will work and have agility titles (or obed or what ever) to me that makes them more worthy to be bred.

    I have JRTs. I will make sure they have the instinct to work, and by that I mean I will take them out in the field with real live quarry-not just to an earth dog trial where its all fake. But I also get them titled in lots of other things to prove their versatility. Many of the people I know who have BC for agility also do herding with them.
     
  16. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    No, of course not. But for the this BREED, show titles (and even agility/flyball/etc. titles when picking a breeder) they mean nothing to me.

    *This is talking only about Border Collies*

    I guess it's hard to explain. To me, a dog that does agility, flyball, obedience, or whatever, isn't going to go as far in herding trials as a BC that doesn't do those things.

    It all goes back to what the breed was originally bred to do, and trying to keep that alive.
     
  17. LauraLeigh

    LauraLeigh New Member

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    Really??? Why would being able to title in agility take away from a dogs ability to do its job? I have never heard of that, I am not trying to be argumentative just wondering why you feel a titled agility or flyball dog would be not as good at a herding trial?

    I also know a farmer here who has a working BC, that rarley leaves the farm, She does her job well and is a pleasure to watch but the couple of times he tried a "trial" type setting they bombed.... Yet the dog does her job in a real situation very well. This bitch is from Quebec and from a working farm, beyond that I now nothing about her breeding though.
     
  18. Beanie

    Beanie Clicker Cult Coordinator

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    So you're saying BCs aren't capable of being versatile the way other breeds are?

    edit: I know that probably sounds argumentative and I don't mean it to, but like Dekka, I expect to see a variety of titles on a dog to prove its versatility. I'm very very surprised to hear that BCs can't be versatile, and if you ask it to be, you're somehow making it less capable of doing what it was originally meant to do...
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2008
  19. Laurelin

    Laurelin I'm All Ears

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    I have always wondered this.

    *quick hijack*

    I had a field lab... I know for a fact that many labs bred for trials are a completely different animal than those bred to hunt. Drives are different... build, etc. Trial dogs often are faster, skinnier, leggier, less coat, thinner tail, drivier, etc. You could argue that many trial dogs are just as 'wrong' as purely conformation dogs.

    My field lab wouldn't have done well at trials but he was a great retriever and really good at the job he was supposed to do, which was a gentlemen's hunting companion. He couldn't retrieve as well as trial dogs on the fast/shorter intervals, but he could retrieve for a long time and was much better built imo to handle water retrieving. (he had the thick coat, thick build, and rudder tail many trial dogs lack)

    Of corse, this does depend on the style of trials one is training to.

    Are BC herding trials not the same way? BC people seem to put a lot of emphasis on trialing... I guess that means BC trials are more comparative to actual farm herding than gundog trials are to lab retrieving? How are they judged? Efficiency? Or speed? Flash? I don't really know.

    If you want to start a new thread, I'd be up for that as well.

    ETA: Too many politics, which is why my BC is going to be a rescue- much easier on me!:lol-sign:
     
  20. Lizmo

    Lizmo Water Junkie

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    No. BC are VERY versatile. But if your going after the best herding dog you can get form your dog, wouldn't you consentrate on herding?

    BC are very, very versatile in things like Agility, Flyball, Showing, Therapy, or whatever. But herding it's a different thing. I'm not sure, you'd have to talk to someone more experienced than me to see if they could be versatile in Herding, too (and still be the best they can be).

    Because, correct me if I'm wrong RD, you want the focus to be on the sheep. Not the handler. In all those things you've mentioned, the focus is on the handler. Thats why alot of working breeders don't do much (if any) obedience with their dogs apart from a recall, and normal stockdog commarns (Away to Me, Come Bye, Walk Up, That'll Do, Lie Down).

    ETA:

    They are judged on time (they have a limit), outrun shape, how they handle the stock, how many commands the handler must give to the dog, if they make it through the gates, and the drive. I might be missing something though.
     

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