Aussies vs. Mini Aussies
- Thread starter Paige
- Start date
I actually read an article on this in a local AgriBusiness magazine (cattle is a big industry here). The mini-cattle they featured weighed in at about 400 lbs as adults. Much smaller than a regular cow. But the minis also eat much less feed, while producing proportionately more meat than a "normal" cow. In terms of production, a rancher can get more meat yield from a range full of minis than a range full of regular cattle.
They had a lot of pictures of those little guys in the article. And they were ADORABLE! I can see how they could end up as pets very easily.
They had a lot of pictures of those little guys in the article. And they were ADORABLE! I can see how they could end up as pets very easily.
Wait... what? Do you mean the proposition is that if you have an Aussie you have to jump, say, 16 - no matter the actual height of your dog...?
o_____o *boggles* That... doesn't seem right at all. Unless they're willing to also start having a fixed jump height for other breeds. Corgis come to mind.
Wow...
o_____o *boggles* That... doesn't seem right at all. Unless they're willing to also start having a fixed jump height for other breeds. Corgis come to mind.
Wow...
Yes.. the answer they were looking at to eliminate mini or toy aussies was a perma 20" and 24" jump height (whichever the dog measures into, you play in). So if your dog is too small, well you just wouldn't play.. But aussies from good breeders come undersized at times, so you are doing more than just eliminating people breeding purposely under sized dogs.. It caused an obvious uproar.. I haven't been reading my mail lately to see how this discussion is currently going.. It's an aussie only thing.. No other breed would be subjected to it. Lot easier to crack down on ILPS and on breeders duel registering AKC and mini aussie clubs.. kick them from the AKC if they are that opposed to it, then they wouldn't be playing AKC to have this issue really..
Some agility non aussie people don't really care, but there's still the endless Willow debate, and the fact that dog took a spot another one could have had.. If they weren't parading her around as a mini aussie away from the AKC I doubt anyone would have ever cared..
ETA: People now do have that gripe you mentioned.. What stops other breed clubs from deciding that their breed can only jump x jump height next..
Some agility non aussie people don't really care, but there's still the endless Willow debate, and the fact that dog took a spot another one could have had.. If they weren't parading her around as a mini aussie away from the AKC I doubt anyone would have ever cared..
ETA: People now do have that gripe you mentioned.. What stops other breed clubs from deciding that their breed can only jump x jump height next..
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Doesn't the AKC ILP form ask for height? I was lookign at it last week.. Sort of wanted to run AKC agility with Cider if I went to visit anyone stateside.. I guess you could lie even if it did ask for height though.. But then when your dog gets measured for agility, I wonder if there's any recourse when your dog is way different. Wonder if both data systems connect like that even..
Im on a aussie breeders list, not that I am a breeder but its a good way to keep track of whats happening in the breed. The whole "Willow" thing stirred up a hornets nest wrapped in a firestorm. The "mini" is the bane of the true aussie world, alot of "mini aussies" are actually mixed breeds they use Paps or similar small breeds to encourage the smaller size. I know a very nice "mini" that competes in USDAA agility shes a nice dog and her handler is a very nice person so I bite my tounge, although the dog looks about as much aussie as I do. My advice with "mini" aussies dont get one, dont buy into the myth. If you want an aussie get an actual aussie.
one of the managers at work has 3 aussies, all 3 rescues, 2 are "standard" sized and then theres Bandit, hes very small...
personality wise hes more higstrung and barky than his "big" brother and sister and tries to heard EVERYTHING!
hes a nut! i call him beastie boy! hes not allowed to play with the big dogs anymore cause hes a REAL bully with the big dogs, with the little dogs he actually plays nicley...most of the time.
personality wise hes more higstrung and barky than his "big" brother and sister and tries to heard EVERYTHING!
hes a nut! i call him beastie boy! hes not allowed to play with the big dogs anymore cause hes a REAL bully with the big dogs, with the little dogs he actually plays nicley...most of the time.
I have heard they used Chi to bring down the size of Aussies to create a 'toy aussie' or 'teacup aussie'.
Thats how they reportedly got the Blue merle in Chi's, because it wasnt there before.
I saw a mini aussie at my last agility trial, I was so surprised, the thing looks EXACTLY like a sheltie, but its tail was docked. I was amazed...it was around 10" tall, cute, but bleh, it makes me sick how people cross breed to get these designer breeds. Thats what I consider the mini aussie, no matter how it started, its a designer breed now
Maybe I might have a herd of mini cows instead of sheep, they look like so much more fun
Diane
Thats how they reportedly got the Blue merle in Chi's, because it wasnt there before.
I saw a mini aussie at my last agility trial, I was so surprised, the thing looks EXACTLY like a sheltie, but its tail was docked. I was amazed...it was around 10" tall, cute, but bleh, it makes me sick how people cross breed to get these designer breeds. Thats what I consider the mini aussie, no matter how it started, its a designer breed now
Maybe I might have a herd of mini cows instead of sheep, they look like so much more fun
Diane
Many of the "mini" and "toy" Aussies were created by crossing them with Shelties (usually the horribly out of standard ones anyway) or Pomeranians. I've met both types and they made me cry. People like the coat colors and intelligence of the Aussie but dont' want to have a 60 lbs dog running circles around them, so they bred down to fit a crappy fad.
Aussies have such a huge range in height anyway, females can be as small as 18" (up to21") and males 20" (up to 23"). That's a pretty small dog right there.
Most people breeding Mini Aussies aren't people to be buying from to begin with. Now, I have run across a couple breeders who are keeping to within a couple inches of the bottom portion of the standard but seem to be keeping most everything else "normal" in terms of brains and working ability. *shrug* I still wouldn't get a dog from them and the whole "mini/toy" makes my head hurt anyway. If you don't like the size of a standard Aussie, don't get one.
Aussies have such a huge range in height anyway, females can be as small as 18" (up to21") and males 20" (up to 23"). That's a pretty small dog right there.
Most people breeding Mini Aussies aren't people to be buying from to begin with. Now, I have run across a couple breeders who are keeping to within a couple inches of the bottom portion of the standard but seem to be keeping most everything else "normal" in terms of brains and working ability. *shrug* I still wouldn't get a dog from them and the whole "mini/toy" makes my head hurt anyway. If you don't like the size of a standard Aussie, don't get one.
I see lots at agility trials, and classes. And I have met breeders that 'qualify' in my book as good breeders. Maybe its a Canadian thing? The ones I see look JUST like Aussies only smaller. Personally I don't care if they are being bred to be agility dogs. Its better than changing an existing breed IMO. Its like the PRT vs the JRT at least they had the decency to change the name and start a new breed, vs frigging up the JRTs.
To me there seem to be two different camps of mini aussies... some look very much like normal aussies and aren't much smaller than them. Others and all toy aussies I've seen look like badly bred shelties to me.
I can see some validity in what the first group is breeding, but none in the latter.
Just my thoughts as always.
I can see some validity in what the first group is breeding, but none in the latter.
Just my thoughts as always.
There were several Mini Aussies in my herding classes... and I've seen quite a few at trials. All of them have been EXCELLENT working dogs. Ironically, I've seen more Minis working than Aussies.
I think Mini Aussies are a good idea in theory. A dog that is 15" can work well... much better, most likely, than the 70 lb show Aussies. But, when Minis cross over into Toys, and the dogs are 10" with a domed skull, buggy eyes, inproportionate bodies, and no longer even look like an Aussie, that is just bad breeding. A 10", 15 lb Aussie just cannot perform the work the breed is intended to.
So, I pretty much agree with Laurelin. I have met a few local, really reputable Mini breeders; their dogs are beautiful, they work every day, they are finished Champions, and they're great dogs. But, generally, if I were looking for a smaller Aussie I'd search for working Aussie breeders whose dogs were at the small end of the standard.
I think Mini Aussies are a good idea in theory. A dog that is 15" can work well... much better, most likely, than the 70 lb show Aussies. But, when Minis cross over into Toys, and the dogs are 10" with a domed skull, buggy eyes, inproportionate bodies, and no longer even look like an Aussie, that is just bad breeding. A 10", 15 lb Aussie just cannot perform the work the breed is intended to.
So, I pretty much agree with Laurelin. I have met a few local, really reputable Mini breeders; their dogs are beautiful, they work every day, they are finished Champions, and they're great dogs. But, generally, if I were looking for a smaller Aussie I'd search for working Aussie breeders whose dogs were at the small end of the standard.
I was initally horrified at the idea of "mini" or "toy" aussies, but having heard their side of the story, and having heard it repeated by people who I respect and who know the difference, I strongly suspect there are two schools. There's the school demonstrated by the link (Aussies that are undersized and have always been that way, the result of a breed split) and then there's the school created by, alternately flyball/agility people who think they are being clever by mixing Aussies with other breeds to shrink them, and puppy millers wanting to take advantage of the popularity of the breed but the fact that people want small dogs. Its perfectly possible for both schools to co-exist and both to produce dogs called "mini aussies," although the legitimate school properly refers to theirs as "North American Shepherds."
With dog breeding, and with dog politics, things are often far more complicated than they seem.
With dog breeding, and with dog politics, things are often far more complicated than they seem.
There is a mini aussie in our Obedience class. He is your typical aussie. Really nice dog. His owner could probably do herding with him, he has plenty of drive for it, spends the entire play time herding everybody around. The trainer has a full sized aussie, and there are two other full sized aussies in the class. They all look identical conformation wise except that Darby is a little smaller.
ETA: I don't think there are any weird breeds in his line added to take his size down. There is nothing about him that would suggest anything other than aussie.
ETA: I don't think there are any weird breeds in his line added to take his size down. There is nothing about him that would suggest anything other than aussie.