Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by LilahRoot, Jan 29, 2013.
To the nutjobs that wrote this: Here's your sign.
I have heard something that before, from someone on the extreme holistic side of things (and by extreme, I mean almost radical).
And I still ask: scientific evidence, please?
vaccinosis isnt some crackpot made up thing. overvaccinating, or in some instances any vaccines at all, are HORRIBLY damaging to the body and brain and in most cases do way more harm than they could possibly protect.
I've never heard anything of this before, but a low grade inflammation that persists wouldn't surprise me. It's possible with almost every other form of vaccination, why not rabies, one of the more dangerous ones out there in terms of reactions . Human or animal.
Somebody might be trying to attribute much more to it than is probably realistic, but the basic premise isn't nutty at all.
Yes, this is very real. Common, no, but real.
Quote from CLINICAL APPROACHES TO MANAGING AND TREATING ADVERSE VACCINE REACTIONS
by W. Jean Dodds, DVM
Adverse Events Associated with Vaccination
The clinical signs associated with vaccine reactions typically include fever, stiffness, sore joints and abdominal tenderness, susceptibility to infections, neurological disorders and encephalitis, collapse with autoagglutinated red blood cells and icterus (autoimmune hemolytic anemia, AIHA, also called immune-mediated hemolytic anemia, IMHA), or generalized petechiae and ecchymotic hemorrhages (immune-mediated thrombocytopenia , ITP). Hepatic enzymes may be markedly elevated, and liver or kidney failure may occur by itself or accompany bone marrow suppression.
What are you basing this on?
There is no doubt in my mind that for some individuals, vaccination can have harmful side effects. Having said that: Correlation is not causation, and the plural of anecdote is not data.
Being more afraid of vaccines than the diseases they protect against is one of the luxuries of living in a world where vaccination has been the norm for decades. Once the pendulum swings far enough back that we start seeing serious disease outbreaks, it will start swinging back the other way, I'm sure.
This is something that concerns me, as I currently have a young puppy in my household. What these don't address is when is it safe to have him out and about?
I'm followed Dr. Dodds limited vaccine schedule somewhat, and Rabies is all that's left, aside from the optional vaccination at 16 to 18 weeks. Rabies is a concern in my area, we've had a few rabid skunks/opossums/coyotes in the past few years. Parvo is also a big deal here.
Vaccinating isn't always safe, but neither is NOT vaccinating at all. Where's the happy medium?
There's no doubt in my mind that over-vaccination is a problem, and that most well-meaning pet owners over-vaccinate. There's also no doubt to me that rabies can be a tough vaccine for many dogs, and one that many dogs have a reaction to. I will always wait till 6 months plus (longer, if I can) to have rabies done, and always separately from other vaccines to be sure of what's causing any potential reaction. (Then again, I do all vaccines separately because of that.)
However, having been told that rabies miasm is responsible for everything from, oh let's see, pulling on the leash (!!!! yes, seriously), chasing small animals, resource guarding, resisting body handling, territorial aggression, and just about every physical issue under the sun, I remain extremely skeptical of claims that link just about every problem in dogs to "rabies miasm". There seems to be a group of people who desperately want to believe that any issue their dog has can't be related to environment or genetics, it's rabies miasm!!! "My dog used to let me touch his feet but now he doesn't like it! Rabies miasm!" "She pulls on leash until she chokes! Rabies miasm!" Yes, seriously. Those are things I've heard people blame on the rabies vaccination.
I mean, even in the article provided, one of the examples is a dog that sustains an unprovoked attack and then suffers behavioral changes. And the author is seriously like, "Trauma? Maybe. OR THE RABIES MIASM!!1!!1" No, it's almost definitely trauma.
Keeva was attacked unprovoked (which is kind of funny because usually she's happy to provoke, but this time she was innocent, LOL). I also had her vaccinated for rabies once her punctures had healed up and she was back to normal (probably two weeks afterwards) because she was like 7 months old. Of course she was significantly more dog reactive afterwards. RABIES MIASM?!?1 Or maybe it was being almost picked up off the ground by a dog that weighed literally 10x what she did and had every intention of eating her.
I think it's kind of unfortunate, honestly, because it detracts from the very real risks of vaccinating, and people who follow conservative vaccination protocols get lumped in with people who think vaccines are the root of all evil.
Now I'm looking at Blossom (who got her rabies vaccine the day before she was transported to me) and wondering.... she chases my cat, pulls on leash, has several obsessive behaviors, is wary of strange dogs and people... Rabies miasm, or Malinois? :lol-sign:
Smart lady. I totally agree.
I don't doubt that there are adverse effects of vaccines. I've seen vaccine reactions first hand. Heck, Gavorche gets a "rabies bump" every time he's vaccinated that lasts for a few months (except this last time...got it over his shoulders instead of his hip, and there was no bump!).
BUT, I think this "article" is way extreme and is attributing way too much to the vaccine. Another vaccinated dog passing it on?? Uhm, yeah...not buying that one yet. I'm much more inclined to believe any of the described behaviors are products of other things.
Yeah, is it just me, or as far as the behavioral side of things goes, is the range of behaviors attributed to rabies miasm like... enormous? I've felt like people were blaming anything they don't personally enjoy in a dog (like high prey drive? *confused*) to the vaccine?
Personally I like my high prey drive, obsessive, and guardy dogs. :lol-sign:
Do I think every dog who exhibits these signs is because of the rabies vaccine? Oh heck no! However, when something interacts that intimately with the body, the nervous system...well, all kinds of side effects can come from it.
Think of lead poisoning. The sheer amount of body processes it effects is astounding (and terrifying). There have been studies showing very high percentages of criminals are suffering from lead poisoning. It affects behavior and thinking processes. Now, does that mean every criminal act can be blamed on lead? No, but that does NOT mean lead is not a very real risk. I feel the same about the rabies vaccine. I give it because rabies is one of the few things I feel the risk of the vaccine outweighs the risk of its side effects for but I realize it can greatly affect my animals....and is likely compounded with each new vaccination with each generation.
This all sounds very similar to the vaccine-induced autism crap. That is NOT what causes autism, but people are looking for things to blame, so they blame vaccines - even though the studies linking vaccines and autism were falsified, and there is no link. (I'm of the opinion that autism is genetic. That's quite apparent in my family.) Same thing, though - I don't doubt vaccines have side effects in kids, its just that autism isn't one of those. If I had to guess, the age kids are usually vaccinated is the age autism becomes apparent. And the age puppies get vaccinated for rabies is the age their true temperament/personality is starting to become apparent. It's coincidence, with a bit of panic thrown in.
Rabies is a killed vaccine.
Even if the body completely overreacted to the vaccine it is rather unlikely symptoms would mimic any single disease, let alone mimic the effects of the DEAD virus.
If a vaccination has any effects like this is could easily come from any of the vaccines, but they seem focused on rabies, because they both have neurological effects.
Not to mention suggesting that "rabies miasm" could be inherited.
Uh, folks? Lamarckism was disproved.
I do limited vaccines on my dog. Simply because quite a few (bordatella for example) is for a disease which isn't fatal and or the vaccination isn't that effective anyway.
But to risk my dog getting parvo? nipping someone and being put down to test for rabies?
I live in a city full of loving pet owners, which is awesome. But far too many aren't vaccinating and when outbreaks do happen in the city, they hit everyone HARD. Dog owners around here tend to frequent the same parks/dog "areas"..which is a recipe for disaster. All it takes is one sick dog.
That is something I've never understood at all. I would (sincerely, not being an ass) welcome an explanation if anyone has one to offer. I've only heard the claim made but never been able to pin down the thought behind it. It definitely contradicts my understanding of heredity.