Are Newspaper add haven for good breeders?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by planet molosser, Jul 14, 2008.

  1. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Buffalo adds Sunday July 13 Guardian-Working dogs

    1. One Akita Akc reg 500.00 each or Best Offer.
    No answer

    2. Boxer pups 500.00
    Okay No screening for HD, No titles, Contential Kennel Club reg.
    Askes about temperment " we are not breeding for killers"
    "just dogs that bark and are pets"

    3. Boxer pups CKC and AKC 2 litters 550.00
    machine will call back later

    4. Boxer male AKC white blue eyed hearing ok
    wont even bother calling this one

    5. Boxer X Cocker mix pups $300 each
    no answer lets hope this was a accident.

    6. Boxers rare AKC also chinese crested
    No answer think this is something I need to do at nite.

    Breeds listed in the grp above Dobes, Corso, english bulldog,english mastiff,
    saint bernard.

    plus tons of noodles and pits and a few pet stores.

    I hope I cant find ONE good breeder.:hail:
     
  2. HoundedByHounds

    HoundedByHounds Oh, it's *you*

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2007
    Messages:
    8,415
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    4 dogs, 2 cats
    Location:
    N Texas, USA
    Home Page:
    ha·ven Audio Help /ˈheɪvən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hey-vuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
    –noun 1. a harbor or port.
    2. any place of shelter and safety; refuge; asylum.

    Haven? LOL...nope.
    Option? Yep.
     
  3. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Inspired by this thread which was "bad breeders"
    http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80306

    Options 1. Breed only when you have BUYERS who want your pups.
    Good breeders have a waiting list for pups before breeding.
    Then they have a contact list for future pups.
    Then they have previous buyers who they can also contact.
    They may want another or have a family member who is so thrilled with the previous dog they want a woman like "mike and jane have"
    Good breeders have the room and money and time to HOLD on to pups that are NOT sold at time of breeding. TO make a match.

    Options 2 Have 4 buyers and female does a whammy and has 15 pups a fluke.
    Take out a local add so u can place them, go to homes and screen buyers and take them back if need comes. Boomerangs are a given for any breeder good or bad.

    Fact is majority rules , cause once in a while a backyard breeder breeds something that can take that breed by storm. NOt the NORM but as the 60's said **** HAPPENS.
     
  4. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    From this link since I am one human maybe my thinking is the odd vs the norm?

    There are so many ads in the newspaper - which of those are good breeders?

    Very few good breeders advertise in the newspaper because they get more than enough referrals from other good breeders, Specialty and All-Breed Clubs. They produce puppies with good health, good temperament, and good conformation, and there is often a waiting list for their pups.

    Look at several ads in the newspaper and most all of them will be careless breeders who know little about this wonderful Breed. They simply decided to breed their pet, found a male and produced cute puppies. These people don't do research, so they simply don't know the incidence of kidney disease, Leggs Perthes, Liver Shunt, SA, bad temperament or epilepsy in their lines. They "think" the parents are "perfect" without knowing anything about structure or soundness. When you buy from these people, you are essentially buying generic little dogs with unknown genes. Their AKC registration papers say Yorkshire Terrier only because the AKC churns registration papers out of a computer that couldn't care less about structure, health, or temperament.

    http://www.orlanelhasa.org/breeder.htm
     
  5. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Bringing up magazines.

    What about the newspaper? The newspaper is not a good source. That doesn't mean there is never a responsible breeder advertising in the newspaper. Your chances of finding one there, however, are very small. The sad fact is that if you have done your homework you will know far more about breeding healthy dogs that 99 percent of the people advertising in newspapers.

    You can use newspaper listings to polish your interviewing and question asking skills. Be warned, however, that some people will become hostile when you ask them questions, especially about health and temperament. Mostly they get hostile because they don't really understand and they think you are accusing them of being a bad person. If you can stand the possible hostility you will certainly gain an education, and you might end up educating others. Not a bad thing.

    Oh, and some of the worst breeders are advertisers in the dog magazines. There may be good breeders too, but flashy does not equal good, and neither do large numbers. Pay attention to what they DO, not how grand they sound. Be skeptical. They write their own praises, remember that.
    http://www.dogplay.com/GettingDog/where.html#classified
     
  6. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
  7. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Thanks for the link, I hope I dont duplicate any posts..

    Black and white mixed produces gray.
    Gray areas do exist in all aspects of life.

    However odds is how life rules.
    I dont buy cars that rate bad in magazines because I dont wont to play the odds with my life.

    The odds just go up by buying from a good breeder, who may advertise in a paper.
    But the odds are finding a good breeder in the paper is less than 5%.

    Many like to gamble I dont... Even thou I breed I prefer All go to pounds for the diamonds in the rough. And if more did NOT buy from papers maybe the backyard breeders would not breed as often when they get stuck with pups that cost money to feed.

    I guess I wish for a better world vs accepting the policys we have now.

    PS I had a litter not expected ,bitch could NOT get pregnant again. figured it out on her own.
    Had only 3 buyers waiting and 8 pups I too called the paper to find out how much a add was. As soon as I sent a email to the list of interested buyers they were all gone.
    And I would have no problem If I placed a add from proven parents and someone went after me for placing it. Once I list the proven ness of the parents they cant say much.

    And I would not need to defend myself cause the history of any breeders breeding is well documentated thus actions speak much louder than words.
     
  8. DogstarAcademy

    DogstarAcademy New Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Messages:
    504
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Malcolm, Kaylee, Rittie, Lizzie & Indy
    Location:
    Dallas, Texas
    Home Page:
    I know that good breeders don't need to as a general rule (but I question the waiting list thing to a certain extent)*- but I sure wish the breed ad all-breed clubs in any given area would run them with the listing for their breeder referral line. It's RIDICULOUSLY difficult to find some kennel and all-breed clubs, some of which don't even MAINTAIN a breeder referral list, or bother to return phone calls.

    John Q Public isn't going to stop buying puppies from BYBs until we manage to make it a little bit easier for them to FIND the good breeders. The internet is a huge help IF we can help them find the good stuff more easily than the bad.

    *the waiting list thing - okay, a good breeder ALWAYS matches puppy to prospective owner for temperament and potential, right? So exactly how big of a waiting list do you need to make sure you have just the right potential owner on hand for every possible combination of pup, temperament, sex (and throw variety in there if you've got that too, especially if it's a significant difference- rough vs smooth coat in collies or something similar, not just a matter of an inch or two). I agree that any good breeder will always have SOME waiting list, but I know more that seem to have about half their litters spoken for ahead of time. It does vary, of course- I've already got 5 people waiting on Lizzie's first litter.
     
  9. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    What I found on the Link Dekka posted was good and it slipped my mind.

    Magazines vs Newspapers.
    The Pros of using local papers vs national mags.
    Is you can visit the prospect buyer and see your pup grow and god for bid take it back.
    Where the big magazines that have many ethical breeders and bad ones as well.
    Forces you to sell AWAY from you which is a con..

    So If I needed to or had a choice I prefer to sell local. However what I bred for is not found locally. Guardian dogs or predators are not in much more need in NY.

    So yes it is not black or white not all breeders in papers are bad or backyard.
    Same applies to magazines since the BIG adds cost thousands and unless they are rich as in wealthy before they bred - to afford those adds puts them at min in the commercial breeder area.

    I take out the Dogs USA breeder listing to educate and keep a presence.
    I dont take it to sell pups I do it annoy bad breeders that if they go down teh list and find a breeder who does work show and xray that the breeder who said the dogs are
    naturally healthy and need no screening may be a wrong.
     
  10. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Waiting list? I try to balance it between males and females, LGD vs pet, and a few pick dogs for possible breeding -me getting pick first. I only take one pick of the litter dep male, one alpha male and or female to expert owners, 1-2 lgd and the rest are pets and I have to match up the temp with the situation. By testing the pups first.

    I dont breed unless I have 4 deps plus add 2 I may keep that normally leaves 2-3 I need to send out emails for . Ss soon as they are posted I get the calls and start interviewing.
    Next litter Im sold out, and may need to do another breeding to breed the last of a older dog and the first of a younger dog. But Im breeding that to get my 4th generation not to produce pets and if I have a huge litter I simply wont have time to do too many shows and will work on training and placing the pups that did not make the cut for breeding.
     
  11. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    Well I didn't read all posts here, but when/if I breed I breed for myself only. I won't have another litter for minimum 3 more years. I have my sights set on buying a bitch from a litter that will be bred 1-2 yrs from now. IF something turns out from that litter I will take it, show it, title it, work with it, train it, test it, THEN breed a litter.

    I can guarantee I won't have a waiting list. I will keep one puppy to continue on with the next generation. If I have to place an ad in a newspaper with the hopes of landing a nice home, I will. I am also prepared to hold on to any pups I can't place.

    I don't see anything wrong with this. I screen my buyers very carefully. I keep in contact with them and enforce the contract that they sign.
     
  12. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    I can lay odds that if you do all that you say you will have a waiting list.
    People will want one of your dogs- Co handlers others in your breed will fancy your dog and your dedication.
    It will be your choice to pick and choose whom you dont want to sell too..Hell I want one based on what you wrote and i dont know what you breed. Anyone would want a pup from that level of education you would get by doing all you plan.

    It is nice to be the exception to the rule.
    Maybe one day breeders such as yourself can change the rules.

    Fact is most breeders in papers are not good breeders.
    And the only way we can change that is to educate buyers what to look for in a breeder.
    However All wanting a dog for a PET should visit the shelters first.
    Thats where many of the classified add pups wind up when not bred by good breeders. And putting money in backyard breeders pockets only helps them breed more.

    Remember this thread and the other is NOT about you me or HBH it is about bad breeders and the topic of hand that most bad breeders are advertised in newspapers.
     
  13. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    MOST ads in the paper are from BYB's/mills, people looking to make a quick buck. I will agree with that.. In my area I never see OFA,CERF, Ch. parents advertised. I see "Ch. Bloodlines" which doesn't mean crap. I also agree that people looking in the paper for puppies probably aren't your upper echelon (sp?) puppy buyers. That doesn't mean they don't mean well. Honestly, before I started showing, I knew jack about where to find a good dog. My parents had goldens my entire life and they all came from newspaper ads. I had a mix breed who came from a 'humane society' ad. I just plain didn't know where else to find a puppy.

    When you are new/uneducated it can be hard to actually go to a show and get a puppy from a nice breeder. Some breeders don't look at, "Hey, its a step in the right direction, they came to a show to look for a dog." They just think.. "Well you want it, and you want it now, sorry." I don't know if we will ever change the way humans shop. They shop for shoes and puppies the same way. It's a blessing and a curse. The "dog as a product" mentality keeps the AR's from having complete control. When JQ. Public starts seeing a dog as a lifetime commitment we may lose our foothold against groups like PETA. I don't know if I'm right, or even if someone can be right or wrong in this argument.

    I just hate to see ALL breeders looked down upon because they might/might not chose to advertise.
     
  14. OutlineACDs

    OutlineACDs Crazy Dog!

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    1,341
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Texas
    I say that about the waiting list because that's what happened with my last litter. My bitch is Ch. titled, had a couple performance titles as well. She took a group 1 at 8 months old, she finished with back to back group placements. She was health tested out the wazoo. Sire was the same. Ch. and has a CD and had produced Ch. offspring.

    After everything was said and done she whelped 4 pups by c-section. I kept one, the stud dog owner took a puppy back from the stud fee, and she sold one of the other ones for me. I had the last puppy for 4 months, at my local show I got lucky and someone met him and fell in love. She had owned the breed before and was incredibly nice and passed my home check/references check. I DID place a newspaper ad for the puppy, but no one who called was really up to par. One guy was, but he didn't want to pay what I was asking for a dog he could get for $75 from a different ad. Not the home I'd want anyway. I got incredibly lucky. I was so thankful to have the help of the stud dog owner or else I feel I would still have the two other males.
     
  15. planet molosser

    planet molosser CASSA

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    1,743
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    11 dogs- 2 Horses and Herd Karakuls
    Location:
    Niagara NY
    Home Page:
    Wow great to hear that stud owners stepping up to plate.
    I sold all the pups for the one time I studded out.
    And I kept in touch with them thru the years.

    Either way you write with such honesty and hope.
    It is nice to read.

    I really do believe good breeders can advertise I am be one one day who knows.
    But I just wish the newspaper had list of qualifications for litters.
    Health , _ work or show or they are listed as buyers beware type deal.

    I even found one with a dog figthing title in it .
     
  16. AGonzalez

    AGonzalez Not a lurker

    Joined:
    May 30, 2008
    Messages:
    3,702
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Guess it depends on how cheap someone is...most ad's cost by the word and people may think that "Hey, if they are interested they'll call me to ask about the health checks etc" - it has been well mentioned that a responsible breeder isn't going to make money on a litter, so cutting additional words out of an advertisement may keep them in the black or gray area instead of red.
    Just my thought on it. The bitch I bought (Lily) wasn't advertised in a newspaper...they did have an "ad" stuck to their front fence (cheaper than a newspaper ad) and though I was in the market I already had the idea they weren't the kind of people I'd want to buy from - but I was pleasantly surprised.
    Mom and dad aren't conformation titled (that was ok by me, I was looking for a working prospect) but were used in weight pulls etc. Mom and dad were tested for hips and heart issues, came up clear. Pups were raised in the house around small children, definitely a plus for me since I have young children.
    By the time I got around to calling them they actually didn't have any pups left. They did call me back because someone had returned Lily for whatever reason, I didn't ask but couldn't imagine it was anything really serious for a 12 week old pup.
    Are they 100% ethical? By a lot of standards, no, since they don't conformation title. But were my main concerns covered, yes they were with the health testing and seeing their home,etc.

    Another thing about newspaper ads that can be misleading. John Q Public for the most part is not up on health certs etc. So why waste the money with all the titles and cert's for someone who doesn't know any better? Most people are looking for a pet puppy, those looking for a show quality are likely to already know someone who raises their breed and they'll go there or to someone that breeder knows, instead of looking in the paper.

    I hope this made sense...lol
     
  17. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2004
    Messages:
    64,812
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To me if they have to advertise they are bad breeders !!! I feel the same way about on line selling .
     
  18. noludoru

    noludoru Bored Now.

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2006
    Messages:
    17,830
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    1 Dog
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Home Page:
    So.. say if our Red bred Penny again and she advertised... would she be a bad breeder? Automatically? Sorry Grammy, I'm not buying it.
     
  19. mrose_s

    mrose_s BusterLove

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Messages:
    12,169
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    2 dogs, 2 rats
    Location:
    QLD, Australia
    I support breeders that advertise a LOT.

    Your average dog owner doesn't want to ring breed clubs, get phone numbers, go to dog shows etc. They want to flip through the paper or check out things online or go to the pet shop.
    If we hide our good breeders, no-one will find them. They will remain wiht their "elitest" status that so many view them with.

    If you are looking for a dog, and stumble onto a registered breeders site, contact them and get a dog. Then that is a great thing. We have alway been good dog owners but we also always used to go throgh a pet shop or paper, I didn't even know another option existed.

    If someone is looking through a paper and see's "Labradoodle puppies, both parents very cute and nice, view mother, m&f, $1200" right next to "Labrador puppies, well socialised, view both parents, vacinated, microchipped, registered, lifetime breeder support, parents genetically health tested, $800"

    Good owners look in papers aswell, we need to educate and not everyone is going to go looking for the information. Ideally, the breeder will have a waiting list, but there is nothing wrong in educating the public with an ad.

    If they screen homes just the same, why is it a bad thing?
    Its vitally important we get the public to look at registered breeders and not see "expenisive show dogs, snobby breeders" we need them to see registered breeders at the better option.
     
  20. Dekka

    Dekka Just try me..

    Joined:
    May 14, 2007
    Messages:
    19,779
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Occupation:
    8 dogs and 6 horses.
    Location:
    Ontario
    Home Page:
    Very true. What matters whether you advertise in a breeders showcase in a dog magazine, are listed as a breeder by your club on their website, or you advert in the newspaper.

    Its how you pick the buyers.... not where they came from. A good home is a good home it doesn't matter how they find you.

    And I think the fact that the general public does not know how to find good breeders is a good point. If all they see are ads by byb then that is why they go that route. Why make it hard for them to find good breeders? Why make it hard for them to bet breed information?
     

Share This Page