Another Flea and Tick med tradgedy!

[Baxter'smybaby]

We really are this year. I have never used anything for fleas or ticks on Meg. I don't worry about fleas really at all, but this year, the ticks are just horrible. I did the whole Lyme thing twice with the horse; I really don't want to do it again with the dog. I put Frontline on her for the first time ever last month, but have been hearing from a lot of local people that it has stopped working for them as well. I haven't seen another tick on Meg since I used it, but I don't know if it's the meds or just luck.

A bunch of people on our agility club list are talking about a different med - starts with a "p". My email isn't working great right now, so I can't go check. Anyone know what that might be?

I have been using this ^ (although I can't come up with the name of it right now--used it all last year, and the start up this year). It has worked for us. As for Biospot--used that for many years on mine with no problems--but it stopped being effective.
I will use chemicals, since I do NOT want another bout with Lyme for human or animal in this house. My husband had Lyme and we were fortunate enough to have caught it early on (although he had secondary neurological symptoms that were scary!). I have no problems using chemicals as long as they are affective, and ultimately help to protect us all.
Flame me if you want --but I am not messing around with ticks!

 

[FluffyZooCrew]

BB and Baxter, is it Promeris y'all are thinking of?

 

[corgipower]

THey dont' have a human lyme vaccine. It was tested and then pulled. WHy won't you vaccinate your dogs cp?

Hmmm...last time I went to the doctor, there was a lyme vaccine for people...maybe it's been too long since I had a checkup.

I don't vaccinate my dogs because the vaccine can cause serious side effects and there are a number of dogs who have contracted lyme disease even though they've been vaccinated. In addition to that, a general dislike for unnecessary vaccines. When the risk of the vaccine outweighs the risk of the disease, I don't give it. Lyme isn't a fun illness, but it's usually manageable.

Canine Lyme Disease Vaccination and Treatment Issues

Lyme Vaccination for Dogs

OK, you say, you're convinced me. This is a serious disease. Should I vaccinate my dog for it?

Unfortunately, there is no real nexus between the seriousness of a disease and the effectiveness or safety of a vaccine for that disease. In my opinion, the Lyme vaccine does not actually provide enough benefit to outweigh its substantial risks, despite the seriousness of canine Lyme Disease.

The Lyme vaccine can cause an untreatable form of Lyme disease and, like all bacterial diseases, provides short term immunity. It is not recommended at any of the vet schools in the United States. The human Lyme vaccine was withdrawn from the market. For all the reasons, I think that it's best avoided. But I have one more, very compelling reason.

There are other tick borne diseases that are much more serious than Lyme, for which we have no vaccines. So even if a very safe and effective Lyme vaccine were developed for dogs, having your dog vaccinated for Lyme isn't going to lessen the need for tick prevention. So it's hard to make the risk vs. benefit analysis for Lyme vaccination come out on the benefit side, no matter how you work the math.

 

[Baxter'smybaby]

BB and Baxter, is it Promeris y'all are thinking of?

no that doesn't sound right--will have to go look it up.


oh--and no, the human lyme vac. was pulled from use quite a few years back.

 

[smkie]

Not in my case it is not managable. I have tried everything. Hepirin sucks.
I dont' even know how you would tell a dog had it until it had time to spread. IT is slow but difficult. It curls up into a cyst and hides which is why it can come back so easily which is what it does to me over and over again.

They have pulled the human vaccine. I will make sure my dogs get at least one a year if not two. I have to talk to the vet about it. THey did just fine with the ones that they had. THis is Victor's second year for being vaccinated and he is sensitive to everything. He had a hard time with the nasal kennel cough, that made him very sick.

 

[FluffyZooCrew]

Down here (in Louisiana) we don't have a Lyme vaccine, because Lyme's disease really isn't that prevalent in the state. So it's not included, or offered, in any of the combo vaccines.

I do vaccinate my dogs every year. I had quit for a while, but started back up. Only because my dogs are in contact with other dogs, and some that are sick. Not to mention all the fosters that come thru my house with unknown problems and backgrounds.

Down here, we have a 7in1 and an 8in1 combo and a 5in1 combo. The 7in1 is technically the 'puppy' vaccine, as it's lacking Corona. The 5in1 is lacking Corona and Lepto.

I give the 5in1, as I do not vaccinate against Lepto, because it's a short-acting vaccine and Lepto is not prevalent in this area. And I do not vaccinate against Corona, because it's not deadly, and highly treatable.

I also do not vaccinate against kennel cough typically either.

So basically, I do give yearly vax, but against the deadlier, more potent things like Distemper and Parvo (and Rabies, of course). And I do know vaccines last longer than one year, but it's for my own piece of mind. My dogs come in too much contact with other sick animals (Bo actually walked right thru a pile of parvo poop awhile back at the vet's, when I was there hanging out. )

I don't vaccinate my oldies though. Jake and Frankie do not get vaccinated, except for Rabies. Frankie's too old, Jake's too sick. Annie won't be vaccinated again either, except for Rabies. Sam cannot be vaccinated for anything, not even Rabies. He's going to be titer tested. When it eventually comes around that he needs the rabies vaccine again, not sure what I'll do yet.

 

[Picklepaige]

Wow...I've never found one flea or tick on any dog I've ever owned. And I live in Mississippi!

 

[corgipower]

I dont' even know how you would tell a dog had it until it had time to spread.

Daily tick checks.

If I find a tick biting the dog, I'll consult with the vet. I have fewer issues with putting the dog on high dose doxycycline even if he might not need it than giving a vaccine that has many side effects - one of which is contracting the disease itself.

I'm so sorry for you Smkie and your illness. I have known a couple of other people with lyme and it certainly isn't pleasant. But the majority of cases are treatable if caught early and if given sufficient doses of antibiotics.

But we all do what we feel is best for our dogs, and there isn't necessarily a "right" answer. Both sides carry risks and benefits.

@ Fluffy -

I also don't vaccinate for corona or lepto. I don't even know what's in the combo vax. I do single vax of distemper, parvo and rabies.

 

[smkie]

I pulled some off of Victor that were this small (.). Only because his skin is pastel, his spots are faint did it stand out. IT was in teh swirl of hair on his elbow. i have 6 deer tick bites myself i just discovered and that is the ones i know about. This tick is the big disease spreader for me,,, but all ticks have the potential. I do not even know if dogs can get bartonella. That is what is tearing up my face. I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. ok..maybe i would wish it on one, but that is because i have a saddistic sense of humour where he is concerned.
You couldn't check enough to find these. I spent 6 hours going over the dogs after we left the park. ANd i am still finding them. ONe was crawling up my back, i saw it on my shoulder when i was standing in line at Walgreens. I do not know if it came from the car, from my yard...they are that bad here.

Knowing a couple people is far from knowing the facts. Only a small percent actually get the rash. THey believe that a large portion of alzhiemers and ms are actually misdiagnosed lyme. THey found lyme in 7 out of 10 people that died with alzhiemers. THere is a study where they have asked MS patients to come in for spinal taps 6 months apart to see if their disease is actually ms or lyme. THere is master's disease as well, which does not show up on lyme tests but has all the same potential for damage. IT is a scary disease that mimics so many others and is missed. My doctor thought i had lupus, he treated me with weeks worth of steroids. I am parinoid about the ONE steroid shot Pepper got for her foot. THere is no cure for bartonella...there are too many types, and there is no test for it. Doctors don't like to acknowledge it because they don't know what to do...that has been my experience. THey don't even like to say the word but it is becoming more wide spread. Then there is "morgellons" whatever that is. THe cdc is just now saying this is a real thing and have started a study. I am not trying to negate what you wrote, only give you what i have learned the hard way and hope that you will know that it is not managable at all. IT is widespread, world wide now. I had to look at that (.) i found on Victor with a film loop. It was indeed a tick. THat is my point. you would never find them on a dog with more hair then Victor. I don't see how that would be possible.

 

[smkie]

I just came in from my sun "treatment" and while i was out there i had Pepper on my lap. She likes to bake in the sun. I found 5 more on her. THey are so small and when you try to remove them they pop and ooze a dark brown blood. These are deer ticks. I found one regular sized tick up under her collar. I bathed these dogs as soon as we got home and went over and over them. You can't see those stupid deer ticks a dog even with as flat of coat as Pepper has.

 

[FluffyZooCrew]

smkie, do you put a flea and tick preventative on them? If I had that many, I definitely would.

 

[smkie]

I never have but i have never seen anything like this year. IT is absolutely insane. WE have no coice. Zoom mentioned something about a new one our vet has so come monday i will be getting it done. THis is the size of what i have been finding. Ixodes scapularis larva Either that or the next size up. THE dog park needs to drop these like crop dusting. Damminix Tick Tubes | EcoHealth, Inc.

 

[FluffyZooCrew]

Oh my, tiny little buggers.

Hope you guys can get a grip on the problem, those things are smaller than flea's!

 

[smkie]

THat' is what i mean. You could tick check til the cows come home ( i did) and still not find them. I am sure Victor is clean. Can't tell on Mary yet. SHe didn't run around like they did. WE certainly will not be back to the dog park until eveyone is covered. I won't go back until i am deet from head to foot. ANd that is scary too.

 

[Zoom]

I used Vector 3-D last year after Frontline did less than nothing and didn't have a single problem with it. Both dogs were fine with the medication itself and I never found a single flea or tick on them afterwards.

Before hand, the fleas were so bad that I was getting bit just sitting in my office and this was with Frontline! But after a good bath, the Vector and vaccuming Borax into the carpet, they were gone.

 

[PixieSticksandTricks]

Oh those deer ticks are nasty! I don't envy you at all Smkie . I hope you find something your comfortable with that works. Nasty little blood suckers!

 

[BostonBanker]

BB and Baxter, is it Promeris y'all are thinking of?

I'm almost positive that is the one people around here seem to be using now. I haven't done any looking into it myself yet; anyone here have experience with it?

 

[elegy]

i pulled two ticks off luce's ear last night. both dog ticks not deer ticks, but they carry disease too. i don't usually put frontline on her but i'm thinking i ought to now. they are bad this year.

as far as vaccinating goes, i don't, but it is my understanding that the newer generation of lyme vaccine, merial's rlyme recombinant vaccine, is not nearly as high a risk of causing problems. i do think it's appropriate for some dogs.

eta: we sell promeris at the clinic where i work but mostly just to treat demodex, preferring frontline for flea/tick. we had a chihuahua have a reaction to it, but all the big dogs have done fine. it STINKS to high heaven though.

 

[FluffyZooCrew]

I'm almost positive that is the one people around here seem to be using now. I haven't done any looking into it myself yet; anyone here have experience with it?

Ummm... no personal experience. Did sit thru a seminar one day with my vet. Poured some Promeris into a styrofoam cup with a folded papertowel underneath. Then they let it sit 5 minutes. When the 5 minutes was up, it had eaten thru the cup, the papertowel and discolored the counter underneath.

Plus it reeks of eucalyptus.

Other than that unpleasant experience, I haven't used it or really know anyone around me that does. It's still kinda new.

 

[corgipower]

Knowing a couple people is far from knowing the facts.

I do know the facts. I also know that there is a lot of conjecture that is not confirmed. I also know the facts regarding the side effects from the vaccines.

I know that the lyme vaccine doesn't protect them from other tick borne illnesses. I know that dogs that are vaccinated for lyme still contract lyme disease, and are more likely to contract the incurable form of lyme. I know that the lyme vaccine can cause serious problems with their immune system.

I will not risk my dogs' well-being by vaccinating. I prefer to use tick prevention and administer high doses of doxy if they do get bitten.