Animal Cruelty to let your dog kill a raccoon?

[Miakoda]

Soooo.......what about people who get barn cats for the sole purpose of them killing mice in an effort to keep such rodents out of horse feed? Are animal cruelty charges on the way?

I've had a few people tell me I'm cruel for "allowing" my dogs to kill the squirrels they've managed to get out in the yard (along with the possum and armadillo). Sue me. Oh wait....they will.....

The ARistas are gaining control of this world and we need to put an end to it now. PETA needs to be dissolved. The HSUS needs to be dissolved. And the terrorists involved in such organizations need to be outed and publicly tarred and feathered.

 

[joce]

My husky used to kill things all the time. She would get rats, opossums, rabbits, raccoons, birds. It was nuts.

I would chain her out before I left in the morning for half an hour while I got ready and when I went to get her there would be something in her mouth She was on a twenty foot chain!!!! One day I there were piles of black stuff but I was running late so didn't pay much attention,figures something blew from the field. Pulled out of the drive way and she had somehow convinced the neighbors sheep to come over and play

Walking at the park one day on a six foot lead she stuck her head off the side of the trail into the tall grass and came out with a big raccoon and killed it. In all of two seconds.

My poor byron tries to get bunnies but has never succeeded.

 

[Renee750il]

Yes, the lawyer knows that. But its a good sign that there is something wrong with the law (or with the application of it) when it simply wouldn't occur to a relatively sane and normal person that something was illegal.

I wish there was more recognition of this, along with less of the misconception that our laws are black and white -- they aren't. Those statutes aren't the final word that governs a decision in law, case law -- how those statutes have been determined is the ultimate deciding factor.

"There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience." ~ Kvothe

In a perfect world, common sense would be the deciding factor.

 

[smkie]

I have seen a dog kill a raccoon that knew what it was doing, grabbed it above the shoulders and tossed it in the air and the raccoon came down dead. I have seen a dog that was ripped up by one that did not, the raccoon flipped under and did considerable damage. I personally think a lethal trap would have been better for everyone's sake.

I know up close and personal the damage raccoons can do to your home. I agree that they can't be there. I don't agree that letting your dog handle it is the wisest decision for the dog's sake, and killing something quickly is a better way to go.

A lethal trap is not humane when the racoon that was still in the attic knew about the one that was killed instantly and was not removed until the exterminator got here. The one left had to have thirst drive him so far that he willingly tried to get out the same hole.

It is not a win win situation in any direction. THe law should recognize that, I don't think the man should be brought up on charges for animal cruelty as far as the raccoon was concerned because it's going to have to die one way or the other. Even in catch and release they are set out in other's territory with no where to get protection because all the inns are full. But I do think he endangered his dog IF his dog was not experienced at this.

 

[Xandra]

But I do think he endangered his dog IF his dog was not experienced at this.

How is his dog supposed to get experience? They have to start somewhere and the guy was right there with his friend in case it went wrong. That's probably about the safest way for a dog to get experience killing raccoons.

 

[smkie]

I guess, the one I saw was messed up in the stomach something awful. I won't let my dogs out when i know they are out there.

 

[Miakoda]

I endangered my dogs' lives every time I sent them out in the woods to go hunt/catch hogs. But then again, since the only time I had a dog killed was when I was on a walk with the dog and my son. I suppose you could say that even a stroll down the street on which you live is endangering the life of your dog.

I think it's asinine for someone to scream "Cruelty!" if I put my dog out in the backyard so it can have a good 15-second run to chase a squirrel back up the tree. Dogs are dogs. Maybe we should let them act like one every now and then.

 

[smkie]

I let my dogs run too, not to hunt, but to get adequate mental stimulation and good exercise i know the risks but feel the benefits out weigh the danger. I do however not go at night when nocturnal things are about. There is still the outside chance. I would not however sic one on a raccoon out of personal choice, It's just not my nature. I do not feel it should be against the law because that is what hunting dogs are all about.

Pepper has killed umpteen moles, quickly and efficiently and has nailed several squirrels. I see no difference between that or the raccoon for that matter. I never told her to, but i never told her not to either.

Death for a mole by Pepper is far more humane that a mole trap.

 

[corgipower]

How is his dog supposed to get experience? They have to start somewhere and the guy was right there with his friend in case it went wrong. That's probably about the safest way for a dog to get experience killing raccoons.

What would he and his friend be able to do if things did go wrong? Reach in and pull them apart?

The experience a dog should have shouldn't start with a raccoon. He should start with smaller, less lethal prey and gain confidence and skills and work his way up. Especially when the dog isn't bred specifically to handle raccoons, but rather to herd cattle. Of course, there's no way to know if this dog had other kills under his belt.

 

[corgipower]

I'm still not convinced they broke any laws. From the article:

Neither am I.
I haven't seen the video, but if they were encouraging the dog, and if the law clearly says that it's illegal to encourage such a thing, then it's not for the police to interpret. That's not their job. That's for the judge to decide.

Soooo.......what about people who get barn cats for the sole purpose of them killing mice in an effort to keep such rodents out of horse feed? Are animal cruelty charges on the way?

I've had a few people tell me I'm cruel for "allowing" my dogs to kill the squirrels they've managed to get out in the yard (along with the possum and armadillo). Sue me. Oh wait....they will.....

The ARistas are gaining control of this world and we need to put an end to it now. PETA needs to be dissolved. The HSUS needs to be dissolved. And the terrorists involved in such organizations need to be outed and publicly tarred and feathered.

Allowing and encouraging aren't the same thing.
I don't see this as an AR issue. I see it as a nosy neighbor issue...
Although if the neighbor is an ARist, then maybe it can be an AR issue.

 

[lyria]

Legal or not (mostly not) this is a SERIOUS health risk to the dog! Letting a dog kill a wild raccoon exposes the dog to potential disease and infection (and since when are raccoon toys instead of animals?).

 

[Xandra]

What would he and his friend be able to do if things did go wrong? Reach in and pull them apart?

The experience a dog should have shouldn't start with a raccoon. He should start with smaller, less lethal prey and gain confidence and skills and work his way up. Especially when the dog isn't bred specifically to handle raccoons, but rather to herd cattle. Of course, there's no way to know if this dog had other kills under his belt.

If you were advising someone who was going to let their dog kill a raccoon for the first time would you say they should be there or they should go grocery shopping while it's going on?

They did separate them at one point.

Foster said he took the raccoon from Grizz, but the dog got it back.

Yup I think if something went wrong you'd be able to separate them. Would there still be damage done to the dog, yes, would there be damage to yourself, maybe, depends on how much time you thought you had and how smart you were about it. At any rate, you'd be able to assess the damage immediately.

A young raccoon? Lethal? I guess it could be, but the risk is pretty low. I don't think the owner did anything wrong. He might not have had access to smaller less lethal prey (assuming he doesn't go out and catch animals for his dog to kill).

My point was that to gain experience dealing with raccoons you actually have to let your dog fight with a raccoon for the first time, and the way it was done in the story I doubt the dog was in any danger, even if that was his first time killing something.

 

[Romy]

Legal or not (mostly not) this is a SERIOUS health risk to the dog! Letting a dog kill a wild raccoon exposes the dog to potential disease and infection (and since when are raccoon toys instead of animals?).

That's why you keep them up to date on vaccinations. I know my dogs are going to catch and kill any wild animals dumb enough to come into the yard with them (it's not like two giant wolfhounds are hard to smell/see) so I take every precaution necessary to protect them. They can handle game, I make sure they're protected against disease.

You could say the same thing about allowing a cat to catch mice. They can get parasites, leptospirosis, rabies, black plague (in some parts of the country). All kinds of crap that can be transmitted to humans, but you don't hear a big outcry to declaw all cats and lock them in people's bathrooms to protect them from their own instincts.

Nobody said raccoons are toys. People have said they are a dangerous, destructive nuisance and in areas where it's illegal to discharge a firearm, use lethal traps, and the raccoons are live trap savvy (putting out poison is horrible, as someone's cat might get into it) using dogs for varmint control is the most environmentally sound and humane option.

 

[corgipower]

If you were advising someone who was going to let their dog kill a raccoon for the first time would you say they should be there or they should go grocery shopping while it's going on?

Being there doesn't make you able to step in if something goes wrong.

A young raccoon? Lethal? I guess it could be, but the risk is pretty low. I don't think the owner did anything wrong. He might not have had access to smaller less lethal prey (assuming he doesn't go out and catch animals for his dog to kill).

It doesn't say how young, but it was old enough to cause property damage. Between teeth, claws and diseases, I don't think the risk is all that low.

My point was that to gain experience dealing with raccoons you actually have to let your dog fight with a raccoon for the first time, and the way it was done in the story I doubt the dog was in any danger, even if that was his first time killing something.

As smkie said:

I have seen a dog that was ripped up by one that did not, the raccoon flipped under and did considerable damage.

And Romy:

The blasted devil creature had ripped his wings out of their sockets and skinned him alive from breast to tail. I had to put him down right there.

I wouldn't at all say the dog wasn't in any danger.

 

[Romy]

There is danger inherent for all working dogs.

Police K9s run the risk of being injured or killed by suspects they're trying to apprehend. Search and rescue dogs risk being killed on roads (I know one who died this way). Hunting/varmint control dogs run the risk of being injured by their quarry.

You prepare them for the risks as best you can, but there's no way to totally guarantee anybody's safety in life. You can prepare a varmint control dog for his eventual quarry, but that doesn't mean he won't ever get hurt. It's a job that needs doing though, and the dogs are happy to do it. Short of keeping my dogs leashed in their yard or indoors 24/7 I don't see a way I could possibly stop them from ever encountering a coon.

 

[corgipower]

There is danger inherent for all working dogs.

Police K9s run the risk of being injured or killed by suspects they're trying to apprehend. Search and rescue dogs risk being killed on roads (I know one who died this way). Hunting/varmint control dogs run the risk of being injured by their quarry.

You prepare them for the risks as best you can, but there's no way to totally guarantee anybody's safety in life. You can prepare a varmint control dog for his eventual quarry, but that doesn't mean he won't ever get hurt. It's a job that needs doing though, and the dogs are happy to do it. Short of keeping my dogs leashed in their yard or indoors 24/7 I don't see a way I could possibly stop them from ever encountering a coon.

I agree.

 

[Xandra]

Being there doesn't make you able to step in if something goes wrong.

Yeah well if your dog is fighting with wild animals there are no guarantees. The best you can do is be there and try and help. When that dog was killing the raccoon they were both present... I'm not really sure of a safer way for a dog to get experience killing raccoons then killing a young raccoon with two able bodied people there.

The fact that no injury to the dog is mentioned, that the dog "returned with the raccoon" (presumably carrying it in his mouth) before killing it, that the guys picked it up, that there is an animal cruelty charge, and that it lasted 2+ minutes with the guys egging the dog on, says to me that it was probably a case of a raccoon not putting up any serious fight and instead trying to get away... probably somewhat weakly as it bled to death internally, because the dog didn't know how to kill it.

I wasn't there, I don't know how it went down with any certainty. Some people made the judgment that the guy was endangering his dog based on the fact that raccoon-dog fights can be somewhat nasty, that there is the possibility of disease, etc. My feeling is that there was no real danger to the dog in this case and the guys probably felt the same way.

 

[JennSLK]

I do agree Fran that luring a animal into your property for your dogs to kill is just mean. However, if a racoon, mouse, any aminal is on my property my dogs would have killed it.

I did however get rid of my bird feeder. Emma would stalk it, wait for the birds to come in and kill them. Then eat the bird seed. Took my a few weeks to figgure out why the feeder needed filling so often.

I did end up getting a different one that was 8 feet in a tree. The old one was 4 feet off the ground.