Animal Cruelty to let your dog kill a raccoon?
- Thread starter Lilavati
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IF what they say in this article is true about him giving the dog the command to kill the racoon and that is illegal because it would technically be using the animal to kill the prey not just track it or retrieve it then they do have grounds to prosecute him.
That's not saying I don't think this is a total waste of time... it is. It's completely ridiculous that this is going to take up court space lol.
but yeah if he did give the dog the command to kill the raccoon then he did technically break the law. It is a law for a reason (not likely THIS reason but...). this really can be a problem. People using their dogs to hunt wild game like deer and what not and especially out of season. that's a big no no. so the law exsists for a reason. I think this is taking it a bit too far but I have to wonder if this guy is a pest control guy that traps raccoons why didn't he just do that? makes me wonder about whether he really did give the dog the command or not. why would he have the dog do it when he could just trap it? that doesn't make sense.
That's not saying I don't think this is a total waste of time... it is. It's completely ridiculous that this is going to take up court space lol.
but yeah if he did give the dog the command to kill the raccoon then he did technically break the law. It is a law for a reason (not likely THIS reason but...). this really can be a problem. People using their dogs to hunt wild game like deer and what not and especially out of season. that's a big no no. so the law exsists for a reason. I think this is taking it a bit too far but I have to wonder if this guy is a pest control guy that traps raccoons why didn't he just do that? makes me wonder about whether he really did give the dog the command or not. why would he have the dog do it when he could just trap it? that doesn't make sense.
After reading the whole article, I admit I was on my phone and skimmed the first time.. I see where you are coming from Sparks, still Very very silly and a waste of court time.. In that there has to be bigger things to worry about, but.... I have to say, being involved in pest control he has no excuse from a law point of view, he would have known the laws (or should have)... Maybe he was just using the dog to locate and the dog finished the raccoon by itself? Unless we hear the clips no way to know...
Also, not sure it is animal cruelty type of incident.... More like illegal/ improper pest control...
ETA... Was typing while you posted Lilavati, that's what I was thinking, stated better... LOL
Also, not sure it is animal cruelty type of incident.... More like illegal/ improper pest control...
ETA... Was typing while you posted Lilavati, that's what I was thinking, stated better... LOL
If he actually gave the dog an order to kill then yeah I agree it's against the law. But the article is kind of ambiguous. The guy says that he sent the dog in to investigate then the prosecutor says they were egging it on. But it makes me wonder what else you're supposed to do when your dog is in a fight with a raccoon. There's no freaking way I'd get in the middle of that. And the animal cruelty charge is fetched.
What gets under my skin about this is that it reeks of ARists or city folk (or both) who are totally unfamiliar with country life deciding to impose their values through criminal prosecution. On the other hand, I grew up with ratting terriers; we never would have wanted a dog to get into a fight with coon if we could avoid it, but that would have been out of regard for the safety of the dog, not because there was anything "wrong" with it.
Especially since their alternatives don't sound all that humane to me, actually . . . trapping is humane if you are going to relocate the animal, but I'm not sure that having a wild thing in a cage for hours, exposed to a frightening and strange environment before its euthanized is any more humane than a few minute fight with a dog.
Especially since their alternatives don't sound all that humane to me, actually . . . trapping is humane if you are going to relocate the animal, but I'm not sure that having a wild thing in a cage for hours, exposed to a frightening and strange environment before its euthanized is any more humane than a few minute fight with a dog.
I agree the animal cruelty thing I do not get at all lol
I thought the big sentence though that carried jail time was the hunting with a dog out of season thing
yeah animal cruelty makes zero sense but the other one does. I think this might be stretching it a bit and making a mountain out of a mole hill but it really all depends on the voice clips.
it's hard to tell from that article exactly what happened. so he may very well be completely innocent. I'd like to think he wouldn't give the dog the command to go after the raccoon. He knows how to trap them and the dog could have been injured. So I'm inclined to believe this is probably really a bunch of nonsense but if it's not and he did give the dog the command... well that's breaking the law.
and I have to wonder why a neighbor would care enough that a dog got at a raccoon to actually call the police.
I thought the big sentence though that carried jail time was the hunting with a dog out of season thing
yeah animal cruelty makes zero sense but the other one does. I think this might be stretching it a bit and making a mountain out of a mole hill but it really all depends on the voice clips.
it's hard to tell from that article exactly what happened. so he may very well be completely innocent. I'd like to think he wouldn't give the dog the command to go after the raccoon. He knows how to trap them and the dog could have been injured. So I'm inclined to believe this is probably really a bunch of nonsense but if it's not and he did give the dog the command... well that's breaking the law.
and I have to wonder why a neighbor would care enough that a dog got at a raccoon to actually call the police.
I like how if the dog had just randomly found and killed the 'coon, it would "nature" and that's ok. But because there was a human standing around, who had picked up the coon at one point and the dog took it back, it's "fighting" and "abuse". 
BUT if he did give a command for the dog to get the raccoon and kill it... that's a problem.
but fighting and abuse? No
It's sad that the raccoon died, and I hope it died fast with minimal pain, but this is not what I think of when I think of "animal cruelty." People out here have lots of herding dogs and hunting dogs. From what I've seen, when dogs kill they can be very efficient.
We live in the country and I've had dogs kill rabbits and coons. My Rotties killed them. I've seen it, it's horrible to watch, but they would struggle and within 30 seconds snap the neck. It was a pretty quick end.
That said, I never gave the command to do it, and I later taught them to leave the wildlife alone.
ETA: Agreed with Zoom.
We live in the country and I've had dogs kill rabbits and coons. My Rotties killed them. I've seen it, it's horrible to watch, but they would struggle and within 30 seconds snap the neck. It was a pretty quick end.
That said, I never gave the command to do it, and I later taught them to leave the wildlife alone.
ETA: Agreed with Zoom.
I'd be in HUGE trouble, because Strider and Kaia have killed 14 raccoons since moving into my parent's house.
Not all raccoons will go into traps. The ones here are trap savvy. At that point, you can do nothing. Poison doesn't work, because cats will get into it. Shooting doesn't work, because we're in city limits. The dogs love chomping them to bits, and the raccoons are preying on neighbor cats and crapping/peeing all over our firewood so I say, have at it.
These are NOT cuddly little Bambi buddies. When they're living in high concentrations in urban areas, most carry rabies, distemper etc. and deadly parasites that are fatal to toddlers if a kid happens to get into their poo. That's BIG deal to us because we've got a 3 year old and the poop covered firewood gets brought inside the house.
*makes note to change attack "command" to "halt! halt!"*
Not all raccoons will go into traps. The ones here are trap savvy. At that point, you can do nothing. Poison doesn't work, because cats will get into it. Shooting doesn't work, because we're in city limits. The dogs love chomping them to bits, and the raccoons are preying on neighbor cats and crapping/peeing all over our firewood so I say, have at it.
These are NOT cuddly little Bambi buddies. When they're living in high concentrations in urban areas, most carry rabies, distemper etc. and deadly parasites that are fatal to toddlers if a kid happens to get into their poo. That's BIG deal to us because we've got a 3 year old and the poop covered firewood gets brought inside the house.
*makes note to change attack "command" to "halt! halt!"*
Who cares whether he gave a command to "kill" or not? It's a blue heeler mix and the kid is 23, I highly doubt he taught the dog such a command. The dog was acting on instinct, the raccoon was taken away from the dog and the dog got it back. It's an animal doing what comes naturally to it, but of course people have to stick their noses in and cry about how horrible that is.
I think it's BS that they're giving him so much crap for this. A raccoon is a pest, no different than the mice and rats that people let their animals kill by the hundreds every day. They are scavengers and leeches and they won't go away unless scared away by a predator or killed.
Down here, raccoons are twice the size of my cats and some are nearly the size of my dog. The ones that are fed daily by the dumb tourists are aggressive and fearless around humans, but they are quite afraid of my dog.
It's also interesting how herding dogs know the difference between a pest that they should kill and an animal they should be kind to. I've had a goat wander onto my property (no idea how a goat got there) and Eve gently maneuvered it back up the hill. Raccoons? She isn't even the same dog. She's broken through a sliding door in an attempt to attack one. Dogs just don't like some animals.
I think it's BS that they're giving him so much crap for this. A raccoon is a pest, no different than the mice and rats that people let their animals kill by the hundreds every day. They are scavengers and leeches and they won't go away unless scared away by a predator or killed.
Down here, raccoons are twice the size of my cats and some are nearly the size of my dog. The ones that are fed daily by the dumb tourists are aggressive and fearless around humans, but they are quite afraid of my dog.
It's also interesting how herding dogs know the difference between a pest that they should kill and an animal they should be kind to. I've had a goat wander onto my property (no idea how a goat got there) and Eve gently maneuvered it back up the hill. Raccoons? She isn't even the same dog. She's broken through a sliding door in an attempt to attack one. Dogs just don't like some animals.
It's illegal to hunt animals with a dog where the dog is going to do the killing. there is a reason for that. A very valid one. There is a season for raccoons (I have no idea why one would put a SEASON on those things but whatever lol). he hunts with the dog (although presumably not with the dog doing the killing just the tracking or retrieving) so it's possible the dog does have an attack command... who knows until we see the clips we won't know for sure.
Do I think this is abuse of a law... sure I guess... it's definitely a little overblown.
But whether you have reason to get rid of them or not... you can't kill them with a dog and out of season.. it's technically against the law.
might it be worth it to challenge this law to get rid of the raccoon... sure it probably is but you gotta be prepared to fight it because it is technically breaking the law
NOT abuse or cruelty though. that's just stupidity
I personally think this is a waste of everyones time. The courts, the jurors, the prosecutor, the accussed. WAste of time. But I can see where they might have a case with the dog killing the raccoon thing.
it's not cause I'm a bleeding heart or I just can't stand that the wittle bitty waccoon died. it's not that at all. but people using dogs to kill wild game (and raccoons are wild game in most areas) is against the law... and out of season. and believe it or not but it really is a PROBLEM in some areas
Do I think this is abuse of a law... sure I guess... it's definitely a little overblown.
But whether you have reason to get rid of them or not... you can't kill them with a dog and out of season.. it's technically against the law.
might it be worth it to challenge this law to get rid of the raccoon... sure it probably is but you gotta be prepared to fight it because it is technically breaking the law
NOT abuse or cruelty though. that's just stupidity
I personally think this is a waste of everyones time. The courts, the jurors, the prosecutor, the accussed. WAste of time. But I can see where they might have a case with the dog killing the raccoon thing.
it's not cause I'm a bleeding heart or I just can't stand that the wittle bitty waccoon died. it's not that at all. but people using dogs to kill wild game (and raccoons are wild game in most areas) is against the law... and out of season. and believe it or not but it really is a PROBLEM in some areas
Yes, it is. But poaching isn't the problem here. Nor is this something like bear baiting. Actually, what I want to know is whether ratting with terriers is legal there . . . Not that I'm planning to taking it up, but now I'm curious.
I do understand about it being technically against the law . . . but I'm strongly inclined to think that someone objected to the event and then went and found a law to use, rather than this being someone enforcing the law, per se.
I do understand about it being technically against the law . . . but I'm strongly inclined to think that someone objected to the event and then went and found a law to use, rather than this being someone enforcing the law, per se.