And nothing of value was lost.

sparks19 · Feb 11, 2011

Yes he had a Family... That he also abused

Dont get me wrong. There should be a trial to find out the truth for sure. But imwont shed tears if he isnt found guilty

One innoceny death is enough. What about the girl this guy was beating? She could have been the next innocent death if this guy just ignored them. The article leads one to believe the assailant was being violent and threatening. If he was then that guy had every right to protect himself at the very least.

But there should be a trial. And i definitely thi k the guys history for abuse should be taken into account

Plus the guy was beating the woman right THERE in front of everyone. No confusion about guilt there.

jess2416 · Feb 11, 2011

He himself could've been abused...

I never said it was right what he was doing cause it wasn't..

regardless, IMO a life is a life is a life and they ALL have value...

He still was someone's son, grandson, uncle, brother, father etc...

If he had 10 abuse charges, then it was the SYSTEM that failed, he should've never been out on the streets to begin with, but I dont think his life should've been taken...

ETA: this brings back memories of Coop's Ethical Debate Thread...

Dekka · Feb 11, 2011

sparks19 said:

So beating someone means they should die? (just curious)

IT wasn't like he pulled out his gun and the guy kept going. From the article the guy said "stop" and beater guy was "meh no" and then the gun guy shot him. I bet he could have stopped it by pulling his gun and saying stop or I will make you stop (or what have you) He just pulled out his gun and shot the guy.

And I only think the beater's history of abuse should be used to get the guy off if he KNEW that guy beat people regularly. You can't go around shooting people you see doing something violent.

sparks19 · Feb 11, 2011

Sure he could have been abused. Very sad but that doesnt give him an excuwemto hury
Others. Sometimes people are put in a
Position to choose. The shooter was put in a position.... Save the the girl (possibly himself too depending on what "forcefully" meant) or just stand by and let that guy possibly kill her. Are you telling me you would just stand by and let her die because he had a bad child hood?

Sorry but some killings are justified. Sometimes you just have to protect yourself and sometimes others.

Trial. Definitely. This guy should be found and rried and give his story and the girl that was being beaten should also get the chance to speak.

The systsm definitely did fail too many times but that doesnt mean he should be excused for his actions. He was assaulting someone... Could have killed her or even been trying to kill her. Sometimes if the justice system doesnt work then other forces will.... Like karma

Very sad for his family but having a family doesnt mean the other guy is guilty automatically. He should face trial and if he was protecting himself and/ or someone else from a real threat then he should be found innocent

jess2416 · Feb 11, 2011

sparks19 said:

WHAT?? :rofl1:

sparks19 · Feb 11, 2011

Dekka said:

well the article said he was beating the girl and then when the guy said to stop he "forcefully told the guy to mind his business"

So I guess it depends what "forcefully" means to you.

the guy was beating on her... told to stop. he just stops and holds up his hands. should he be shot? NO

Guy was beating on girl... told to stop... guy gets aggressive or forceful with the person trying to stop him.... should he be shot? maybe. did he start beating on the the guy with the gun? what does forcefully mean? to me it doesn't mean "meh no" he got physical with the guy with the gun.

so if he was threatening that guys well being then sure he had more than grounds to shoot him,.

if he just went on pummeling the girl... YES I also agree he should have b een shot to save the girl.

I don't know if I would be ok with a guy beating someone and just standing there and not doing anything but calling 911.... I mean that's probably what I would do if I was alone but if he beat her to death to before he cops came I don't know if I could forgive myself for just letting it go on

if he was determined to just keep on beating her and beating her... I don't blame the guy one bit for ending his life to save the innocent persons life. this guy was NOT INNOCENT. he was committing a crime and if he kept on committing it then I'm ok with action being taken to save the actual innocent

sparks19 · Feb 11, 2011

jess2416 said:

whats the confusion lol can't you read.

exactly what I said "excuwemto hury"

get your act together

LOL ok seriously... stupid Iphone and fat fingers lol

anyway at this point I'm trying to remember what I said there... I believe it was that just because he was abused or had a bad childhood that doesn't give him an excuse to hurt people and abuse people without consequence

excuwemto hury... SEE :rofl1:

jess2416 · Feb 11, 2011

sparks19 said:

:rofl1:

and just cause he was beating on someone doesnt give the other guy an excuse to hurt and kill someone without consequence

Dekka · Feb 11, 2011

I wasn't talking about him being abused at all. I personally don't think that has any bearing on the situation.

The guy said stop and the other guy said mind your own business. You can scream at someone and that is VERY forcefully. I am sure if he struck the bystander that would have been reported!

Either way I don't agree with just shooting someone unless its the last resort. That article made it sound like the guy wouldn't stop when asked, so they guy pulled out his gun and shot him. Never gave the guy the opportunity to stop when he saw the gun. So it is likely he could have stopped the guy beating the woman without killing him.

Now if he knew the couple and knew that justice was failing the woman, then yes I think you could make a good argument he was saving her life. If he didn't then he is a dangerous example of vigilante justice.

sparks19 · Feb 11, 2011

jess2416 said:

well I agree... he should go to trial.

but he shoudln't automatically get a jail sentence IF he was actively defending his life or hers.

but I do agree there should be a trial to find out the truth behind the event.

the fact that he fled the scene does rub me wrong... i forgot about that part. if I shot someone to defend myself or an innocent I'd LIKE to think I would stick around to explain what happened

I can see both sides

sparks19 · Feb 11, 2011

Dekka said:

and that's why I've maintained the opinion that he should go to trial to find out the truth and whether he's really guilty of murder or guilty of self defense (or defense of an innocent who couldn't defend herself)

but they are vague about what happened when they say "forcefully" but I don't include yelling in my version of "forceful" so maybe that's where my opinion is coming from

force means physical to me in such stories. I wish they would just be clear on exactly what happened. no plays on words ... just the facts.

we don't know exactly what went on here.... so he should get a fair trial and if he's found innocent because he was defending himself or someone else... I'm ok with that.

Romy · Feb 12, 2011

sparks19 said:

^^ pretty much this. We don't have the full story, just what the reporters wrote. I could see someone panicking after that and running not because he was afraid of being in trouble, but just running because. Then being afraid to come forward after the fact because of there being such a strong history of people getting convicted of murder even after it was proved they were in fact defending themselves from intruders, muggers, etc.

Dekka · Feb 12, 2011

I wasn't even touching the fact he ran.

It was all the people saying they didn't want their tax dollars going to a trial etc. I was saying that people shooting some stranger for violence when they likely could have stopped it another way is a dangerous thing.

Dani · Feb 12, 2011

I don't blame the guy for shooting the @sshole, but it wasn't the smartest thing to do. He also made it worse by running away. Hopefully if he's caught he has a good defense built up! He's in danger of being accused of excessive force.

Nechochwen · Feb 12, 2011

jess2416 said:

A beat up, rusty nail has value. But it is not valuable. Rusty nails ought to be thrown away and gotten rid of, as they do more harm than good, even more so if someone should hurt themselves on it. Human lives have value. Not all are valuable, and there are quite a lot that need to be gotten rid of and destroyed.

jess2416 said:

Actually.... it does.

Nechochwen · Feb 12, 2011

JessLough said:

It certainly answered it here. Often times, violence is the only answer to violence.

Dizzy · Feb 12, 2011

If he can so easily shoot a stranger on the street, taking a life, I wonder how many other people he has killed.

Nope, gunning people down is not the answer.

If the.bullet had accidentally killed her too, would you still think he's a hero or just a thug.

ACooper · Feb 12, 2011

Dekka said:

I said Good that my tax dollars wasn't going to have to go to a trial.........but that meant the ABUSERS trial. He's been charged 10 times for the same BS, I'm sure WE'VE paid for his attorney at least a couple times, I'm sure WE'VE paid to house and feed him when he's been arrested, and I'm willing to bet that WE'VE paid for medical damage he's caused to his loved ones.

I wasn't speaking about tax dollars going to try his shooter.

And just to reiterate what Nech already posted........because in this instance it NEEDS to be repeated so many of you (Americans or not) understand what our law says

Dizzy · Feb 12, 2011

Do you think SHE was happy he was shot? In my experience having someone shot in front of your face is going to be more traumatic than the assault itself.

DV is more psychological than physical, shooting this man will not solve any of her, or her fatherless child's problems.

It's just another reason to not feel safe, never mind the abuse she was already suffering.

Locke · Feb 12, 2011

Karma's a bitch.

Hopefully this case will shed light on the failure of the criminal justice system to protect victims. 10 charges of assault and he was still with this girl? I know that she may have gone back to him, as is common in domestic violence situations, but somewhere after the first time, the system needed to step in and HELP her leave him, and keep him away from her.
There are two sides to every crime, the prosecuted and the victimized, yet the criminal justice system only cares about the prosecuted and fails to protect the victims.

I don't think he deserved to die, but what would being charged one more time really do?

I hope this girl can recover and find a man that loves her and respects her.

And nothing of value was lost.

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