Absolutely amazing...

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rottnpagan

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BullyLover said:
You think it is pathetic to judge someone....while YOU are???? I have had my brush with suicidal people too......and you know what....everyone of them was an attention *****...plain and simple. Sorry if that's harsh. But it is the truth. I have no sympathy for someone who wont help themself.
It's not a matter of WON'T help themselves, it's a matter of CAN'T help themselves.

Like I said earlier, one in four people will suffer from mental illness. I hope someone doesn't say something like that to you, if it strikes you.

I can definitely see true colours coming out in people in this discussion. It's really an eye opener.
 

smkie

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the meds for bipolar are very dangerous, and can have severe side effects of gross weight gain, and lathargy. I know of one death caused by lithium. there has to be a careful monitoring of the blood while taking it. Not everyone has insurance that will cover mental illness, not everyone can admit to themselves or their family that they feel that they may be mentally ill. Not everyone can afford the medications that go along with it. And in my experience with my family member that is bi-polar, THEY DO NOT KNOW that they are manic when that phase comes into play. THey think they are normal and we are not, or out to get them, or whatever is being misconstrued in their heads. It is a maddening disease to try to understand.
 
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rottnpagan said:
MBFIAD (sorry had to shorten that handle!!):

I'm a medical professional, I've worked in our provincial mental hospital, and I now work in a nursing home, with mental illness as well as the aged and medical/physical conditions.

You CAN'T do this job without compassion. You can't get too involved, it's true... but you just cannot do this job without caring, somewhat. If you're working in nursing, and you don't care or you look down on the patients for whatever choices they've made in life, or whatever cards have been dealt to them, then you need to find another career.

To me that's just unconscionable.
Good post. That's exactly the way I've learned to deal with clients in a legal setting. Whatever the person is facing; no matter what they've done (or haven't done) to land in the situation, you must always remember that this is a real person and treat them with understanding and compassion - which is not, by any means, the same thing as condoning their behaviour. Unless someone is a complete sociopath (I've had a couple of those) they are frightened and bewildered and desperate. You have to be able to separate the deed (or in the medical field) the disease or injury - or what led to it - from the real person.
 

rottnpagan

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smkie said:
the meds for bipolar are very dangerous, and can have severe side effects of gross weight gain, and lathargy. I know of one death caused by lithium. there has to be a careful monitoring of the blood while taking it. Not everyone has insurance that will cover mental illness, not everyone can admit to themselves or their family that they feel that they may be mentally ill. Not everyone can afford the medications that go along with it. And in my experience with my family member that is bi-polar, THEY DO NOT KNOW that they are manic when that phase comes into play. THey think they are normal and we are not, or out to get them, or whatever is being misconstrued in their heads. It is a maddening disease to try to understand.
My mother in law was bipolar, and it was very difficult on everyone, particularly my husband while he was growing up, as he had to stay home and care for his mom. Thankfully, I live in Canada where we have free health care, so her meds were covered. Yes, lithium is a very nasty drug, routine blood work must be done to watch levels in the liver.

My MIL attacked me on a regular basis during the earlier years of my marriage. She called me hideous names, and did horrible things to me, in front of my children once. They didn't go back until things were smoothed out, and she was managing it properly. She's since passed away due to cancer.

Mental illness is very common, and it's not something to be ashamed of. People suffer from it just like they suffer from cancers, from diabetes, and from asthma. It's a disease.
 

smkie

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i always felt that i cared for each person in each room as if they WERE related to me. Only then did i feel i was giving them my best. I cant imagine doing the job without being compassionate and sometimes loving the ones that i was involved with on a daily basis. I don't remember 2/3 of the people i went to college with, but i distinctly remember each of the residents i cared for. you have to have compassion to do the job correctly and it doesnt eat you up to care, you just find out how limitless your ability to love really is. THose people were so rich in story, in history, i loved to get them talking while we took care of whatever physical need we were going through. It allowed them to be "human" and to remove us both to a more comfortable mental place while we delt with some seriously embarrassing physical situations. I hope that anyone working in a nursing home would feel the same way. It is a tough job, granted, but by allowing in some sentiment you will get back a thousand fold in suprising ways any compassion you let leak out.
 

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rottnpagan said:
It's not a matter of WON'T help themselves, it's a matter of CAN'T help themselves.

Like I said earlier, one in four people will suffer from mental illness. I hope someone doesn't say something like that to you, if it strikes you.

I can definitely see true colours coming out in people in this discussion. It's really an eye opener.

#1......BULL CRAP Can't help themselves.....some may be insane and yeah they get compassion....I am talking about the people who say they want to kill themself over and over and don't.....

#2.....I am not worried about mental illness...and if I ever got like that I hope someone would smack me in the face and say snap out of it you silly little attention *****....

You don't know what I have gone through in my life in regards to suicide that have shaped my view on it.....So don't for one second think that you do. I am sick of the bleeding hearts looking down on people becasue they don't share the same bleeding heart mentality....
 

smkie

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rottnpagan said:
I absolutely agree. I don't go home at night, crying over the ones we help pass with dignity. But I certainly shed a tear and try my damnedest to make those last hours beautiful.
I have sooooo much respect for you:)
 
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BullyLover said:
#1......BULL CRAP Can't help themselves.....some may be insane and yeah they get compassion....I am talking about the people who say they want to kill themself over and over and don't.....

#2.....I am not worried about mental illness...and if I ever got like that I hope someone would smack me in the face and say snap out of it you silly little attention *****....

You don't know what I have gone through in my life in regards to suicide that have shaped my view on it.....So don't for one second think that you do. I am sick of the bleeding hearts looking down on people becasue they don't share the same bleeding heart mentality....
You sound so intensely angry about all of this that it seems clear you have some very unresolved feelings about it. I hope that if you ever suffered from a mental illness that those who care for you would not smack you or accuse you of seeking attention but rather try to find you the help you needed in whatever form it may be.

I don't look down on you, bullylover - and those who have compassion aren't necessarily bleeding hearts.
 
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I would assume that we are all here because we love dogs, so I'll ask this - if you took your dog to a veterinarian, would you prefer the vet and staff who were compassionate or those who were not? The vet who petted the dog, looked into it's eyes, took time to reassure you, while still doing all that needed to be done to care for the dog, or would you prefer someone who did all the necessary medical things but clearly did not care for the dog or for you?

As I mentioned above I managed a vet clinic for many years. One of the most telling characteristics of a good vet (and I've worked with many) is their ability to retain compassion despite years of seeing tragic things happen to animals. In clinics with more than one vet the busiest vets, the ones always asked for, were the compassionate ones.

I always managed to retain compassion and empathy for both the pets and the clients, and this resulted in many owners requesting that I be present for euthanasias of their beloved pets. In some cases I held the pets when the owners felt they were not emotionally strong enough to do it - and in some cases I held the owner's hands to give them support. And they didn't ask me because I was lacking in compassion, but rather because they knew that while I could not possibly care for their pet to the same degree they did, I did care. I shed some tears over these events, but I also managed to leave my work at work and not let it affect my home life.
 

JennSLK

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just accept it, you arent a hard ass like you think you are!! hehe
OK, so maybe Im not as hard as I would like to be. But, Shhhh dont tell my family about my softer side
 

BullyLover

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MyBestFriendIsADog said:
You sound so intensely angry about all of this that it seems clear you have some very unresolved feelings about it.
LOL....the last thing I am is "Intensely angry" about this....I don't know how you come to that cursory assumption....but you're wrong. I guess becasue I forgot to put my smile face at the end. :D
 

RD

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Survival of the fittest? Gimme a break. In a world with no western medicine, no hospitals every 100 yards, no motor vehicles and no Midol, most of us Americans would be dead. People unfortunately have modernized things so much that survival of the fittest no longer applies. Nature has been thrown out the window almost entirely. I see the point, I just don't think it's valid considering that the way we live, almost anyone can survive.
 
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Dreeza

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JennSLK said:
OK, so maybe Im not as hard as I would like to be. But, Shhhh dont tell my family about my softer side

haha, my lips are sealed!! (ooh, and sorry about getting your name wrong in my other post :p )
 
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BullyLover said:
LOL....the last thing I am is "Intensely angry" about this....I don't know how you come to that cursory assumption....but you're wrong. I guess becasue I forgot to put my smile face at the end. :D
Hmm...your choice of words in your previous post is what indicated to me that you were angry, not a lack of "smiley faces". Perhaps that is simply your usual vocabulary, and if so, perhaps you aren't aware that it does come off as "angry".
 
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An interesting side note about the whole "survival of the fittest" and "Darwinism" as it relates to mental illness - there is a very popular current belief that Charles Darwin suffered from severe and at times incapacitating clinical depression. Since there is some evidence that depression and other mental illness may well be hereditary in nature it stands to reason that Darwin may well have inherited his propensity for depression. Which of course means that if "survival of the fittest" really held true in terms of mental illness then Darwin himself, the father of evolutionary theory, would not have existed. Nor would have many creative and scientific geniuses, as there has been many links made between mental illness and creativity in various areas, from art to literature to science. Perhaps our struggle with understanding mental illness is one of the things that actually make us human and add to our sentience.
 

BullyLover

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MyBestFriendIsADog said:
Hmm...your choice of words in your previous post is what indicated to me that you were angry, not a lack of "smiley faces". Perhaps that is simply your usual vocabulary, and if so, perhaps you aren't aware that it does come off as "angry".

Huh? Let's get off your perception of my choice in words, and how you feel they reflect if I am angry or not, and get back on topic. Because quite frankly that has nothing to do with anything. :)
 

rottnpagan

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BullyLover said:
#1......BULL CRAP Can't help themselves.....some may be insane and yeah they get compassion....I am talking about the people who say they want to kill themself over and over and don't.....
People who have serious mental illness and are actually suicidal don't say they're going to kill themselves. They DO it.

BullyLover said:
#2.....I am not worried about mental illness...and if I ever got like that I hope someone would smack me in the face and say snap out of it you silly little attention *****....
Hopefully. And hopefully you really can. But unfortunately, most people, with mental illness, can't just 'snap out it', and it's not a 'attention whoring' thing. (You wouldn't be a member of Scientology, would you? LOL)

BullyLover said:
You don't know what I have gone through in my life in regards to suicide that have shaped my view on it.....So don't for one second think that you do. I am sick of the bleeding hearts looking down on people becasue they don't share the same bleeding heart mentality....
No, I don't. But I can tell you the experiences in my life, and from a scientific and medical standpoint, which I have been.

It's not a 'bleeding' heart mentality at all. Like I said, people like you should be so lucky as to be cared for in a medical situation by such a 'bleeding heart'.
 
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BullyLover said:
Huh? Let's get off your perception of my choice in words, and how you feel they reflect if I am angry or not, and get back on topic. Because quite frankly that has nothing to do with anything. :)
I was simply making an observation, and if you felt it was off track you certainly didn't need to respond to it. You chose to respond, and I responded to you.
 

rottnpagan

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BullyLover said:
Huh? Let's get off your perception of my choice in words, and how you feel they reflect if I am angry or not, and get back on topic. Because quite frankly that has nothing to do with anything. :)
As I'm sure you know, that tone and perception is everything on the internet, and when you start a sentence with 'bull crap' in capital letters, it will indicate agitation. Sticking a cutesy smilie won't tame those words down.
 
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