1 year later, and he's STILL NOT HOUSEBROKEN! :( Lots of Behavior problems.

[Toaster]

**I'm sorry for the length of this post, but PLEASE read it... I'm so desperate for help with this dog and his behavior and lack of house training**

Since this is the ONLY pet/dog forum I'm on, you guys get to read/hear my rant and frustration about attempting to house train my Dachshund.

He's over 1 year old, not fixed or neutered... and STILL he is absolutely content with pissing and crapping in my house!

I've tried TONS of methods over the last year... I've tried the old-fashioned anger, threat method... rubbing the nose near (not on) the mess, yelling at him and punishing him for going for a walk in the house.. and yes, I even tried a firm whack on the nose with a rolled up newspaper. (I know, I know).

I tried the reward method... ignoring all mistakes in the house, and intense praise when we go outside and he pee's and poop's... I tried food treats immediately at completion of the bathroom act. I've used dog treats, human food like cheese, or a piece of turkey breast or piece of hot dog...

I've even done the kennel, regardless of how cruel it feels to me... Leaving him locked in the kennel, in the living room/tv room with us, only comes out of the kennel to eat, go back in the kennel for 20-30 mins, then outside for a walk, then back in the kennel... (and of course walks in the morning and before bed).

I've tried walking him EVERY 30 mins to 1 hour... THAT WAS RIDICULOUS, but we tried it...

We've tried short 3-5 minute yard walks, and long 20+ minute around the block walks...

Regardless of the method I've tried, this dog is simply absolutely happy to use my house as his toilet! AND YES I'M FED UP AND ANGRY ABOUT IT.

Today, I was laying in bed just chillin' out... The wife and I had a pretty late Friday 13'th night, so we were just lounging on this Saturday morning... Stogie (my Dox) was asleep in his kennel, around 9:30-10:00am he started whimpering, so I got up took him outside... we stayed out for about 5-7 minutes until HE decided it was time to come back in, which he does by returning to the front door. HE NEVER USED THE BATHROOM BTW... so instead of putting him back in the kennel, I put him in the bed with my wife and I... we watched some tv, he fell asleep under the blanket... ok fine. Then the door bell rang, he went ballistic, which is another behavior issue for another thread, but anyway - he jumped off the bed and he and my wife answered the door.. LESS THAN 1 MINUTE LATER my wife walks back into MY BEDROOM and finds a puddle and a pile! ALL THIS IS 60 SECONDS, maybe less.

I'm at my wits end with this dog... If he's in his kennel, he'll "hold it" for hours.. AS LONG AS IT TAKES... He's been alone, locked in the kennel for 8+ hours at a time when we're all gone during the day and half the evening or longer, and NEVER makes a mistake IN THE KENNEL... But if he's loose in the house, he won't hold it for 8 seconds! He just finds the nearest "whatever" and releases. THIS IS PATHETIC... and its pathetic on my part. 1 year later and I'm at absolutely SQUARE 1 with potty training this dog! I'm frustrated and angry... not only at him, but at myself. Stogie is a smart dog, and even though he's not trained - I KNOW HE UNDERSTANDS! But I promise you its like he just doesn't care. You may think that sounds stupid, but I know its true.

Here's the perfect example... WHEN he does pee outside, obviously we're next to him or near him... he pee's, I'll repeat to him in a gentle voice, go pee pee, good boy, go pee pee outside... He finishes and I immediately start the loud cheerful praise "Good boy Stogie! Good boy go outside, go pee pee outside!! GOOD BOY!!" I'll rub his head, rub his chest, he rolls on his back for me to scratch & rub his belly... He know's he's done good and gladly accepts his praise... In the instances where I've caught him peeing INSIDE, its another story... If I walk in the room and he's peeing, he stops immediately and RUNS AWAY... This is before I say a single word! Then once I start yelling, he tucks his tail, drops down to his belly on all fours and stops moving or crawls to me very slowly... He know's he's in trouble. And we go through this routine for many other behavior problems too... example: he loves to tare apart tissues, napkins or papers of anykind... He REPEATEDLY goes in the waste basket of my bathroom and gets used tissues out (from makeup application, nose blowing, whatever-USED TISSUES), grabs them and RUNS like his tail is on fire... Someone will start yelling at him, he runs and hides somewhere and IMMEDIATELY starts shredding it to bits... If/when I catch up to him to get the tissue back he growls and locks down as hard as he can on the tissue. So hard in fact, There are times I can not pry his mouth open to get him to release the tissue (or whatever the item is), and I end up getting only the part OUTSIDE his mouth. I'll reprimand him (Bad boy, etc, yada yada yada), but he'll do it again 10 seconds later.

I'm sorry for the length of this post, but I'm trying to do all the right things, but my dog seems like a spoiled brat child. I can't get him to STOP doing ANY of the things I want him to stop doing (which the list is long at this point). My whole family loves him to death, but he's getting worse with age, and not better... The other day, while on a short leash (another house training tip I read) I tied him to the coffee table in the living room, next to me mind you... I was working on the laptop ON THE COFFEE TABLE, the battery died on the laptop, so I plugged in the ac adapter... he wanted to be released from the confinement of the leash, tugging and pulling... I ignored him, his tugs, his barks, as I knew he was within a few feet of me he was safe and out of harms way - no chance of unsupervised toilet mistakes... Well, he BIT the power wire for laptop! CLEAN THROUGH! sparks and everything!!! I'm lucky he didn't get seriously hurt or die! I had to cut and mend the wires back together, and I got so incredibly angry at him --- I can't even tell you! That was the second time he's ever bitten a wire, but the first time since he was just a tiny puppy... he bit another wire when he was about 12 weeks old or so, and has never done it again until now... He's never really done any damage per se, except for the occasional wife's shoe.. He destroy HIS stuff, his toys, his beds, etc... But I feel he bit that wire because I was completely ignoring his attempts to pull himself free from the leash, and I feel he retaliated by biting the wire he just saw me plug in.

I'm close to the end of my rope with him... My fear is having him for the rest of his life and me having to continuing to punish him or keeping him locked in the kennel for most of the day... Thats not going to make ME happy or HIM happy.

Just a quick note on his behavior... He's small at 8 pounds. He not aggressive at all (although he thinks he's a 200 pound rottweiler). He likes to play rough with ME, but not so much with the wife or kids really- they get the gentle love & kisses.. The only time he's ever shown real and true signs of aggression (intense growling, snarling or even snapping) is when he snatches human food off the table and we try and get it back from him. But while he's eating his dog food kibble (innova btw), I can stick my hand in the bowl and feed him kibbles - he doesn't care. When he and I play rough and he nibbles my hand, its absolutely playful - I know he COULD hurt me, but I know he never would. He barks like there's no tomorrow... He barks at ANYONE he see's or hear's, but once he gets to them, he wants to lick them to death. He likes to be on someone... on the lap, behind the head (like a cat?), near the face... stuff like that. He crawls all over us when we're eating... if we're eating in the living room (like many families do), he'll jump all over us - which is annoying... overall he's a gentle dog, just not obedient.

I need some solid help people.... I hope you can read the sincerity I'm trying to express here... I'm truly confused and frustrated.

-Tom

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

How long did you try the praise method?

I say, clip him on a lead, and attach him to your belt. This way, you cannot give him a chance to got to the washroom. When he goes outside, praise like nuts!

I just think you need to be patient, and stop changing your methods. It will confuse and frustrate him. Pick a method, and stick to it! Be consistent!

I believe Daschunds are notorious for being hard to potty train. This is something you need to have considerd before getting him.

~Tucker

 

[elegy]

have you taken this dog to obedience class yet? he really sounds like he needs to go. you sound like you need to go, too. you'll both learn a ton!

right now it sounds like this pup has way way too much freedom and you're giving him way too much opportunity to make mistakes. like tucker&me said, tether him to you. that way he can't sneak away and get himself in trouble, and you'll be right there to interrupt him and take him out if he starts to go.

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

Oh, and why isn't he neutered?

~Tucker

 

[Chul3l3ies1126]

Ok, im just going to say that when we got my dachshund bingo 11 years ago in december, it only took him 1wk to be potty trained. He learned so well, listened as too, to top that off he was born blind, so it was harder for him to understand that he had to find the door and scratch at it. But he learned. So i think it just depends on the dog, not the dachshund breed. Just recently he made is first doo in the house, the vet says he is getting old and is unable to hold it as much.

 

[Angelique]

What I am getting from your post is extreme frustration and the feeling that you may be viewing this dog in "human" terms by thinking he would bite through a cord out of spite, but it was simply what he bit in a moment of frustration.

I'm also getting the feeling this dog is spoiled rotten on one hand, and then blown up at on the other. The worst thing you can do with a dog is blow up and interact with them in anger. They don't understand this and there is nothing about anger which says "trustworthy leader".

Rubbing a dog's nose in their mess or any kind of interaction when you are angry and frustrated is considered by the dog as an attack, and will cause a dog not to trust you. By the time you've grabbed him and are headed for the mess, he is probably doing everything within his power to communicate submission so that you will stop your attack. He probably also has trouble "going" in front of you too, because he thinks you get upset when he poops, not where he poops.

He may very well not have any respect or trust in you or anyone else in the household for that matter, as leadership material. This dog is completely running the show, and it's not his fault. Is everyone in the household capable of sticking with a plan in order to help this dog?

I sense a lack of supervision, boundaries, consistancy, leadership, and trust. The dog is probably also bored and in need of long daily walks with everyone in the family joining in as a group. Humans in the lead, dog(s) following. This dog is lost and confused and so are you, but this can get better.

At this point, I suggest you relax and take the time to read "Cesar's Way" by Cesar Millan so that you may learn how to see things from the dog's point of view, understand what a dog needs daily from you in order not to be frustrated and bored, and for you and the other members of the household to start being seen as a calm, stable leaders who are in charge and assertive rather than just these "beings" the dog is trying to live with the best he can. There is another way of looking at dogs which you may find very rewarding if you look at things from another perspective.

If you can find a skilled behaviorist who uses Cesar's methods or something similar to help you in person, that would be my best recommendation.

Right now, you and your family are the ones who need the training in order to understand and help this dog. It starts with you.

Good Luck.

 

[silverpawz]

Stogie is a smart dog, and even though he's not trained - I KNOW HE UNDERSTANDS! But I promise you its like he just doesn't care.

If he understood, he'd be housetrained. That's just the way it goes. Dogs don't do thing out of spite, they do what works for them. Eliminating in the house works for him. He obviously doesn't realize that he's supposed to hold it.

In the instances where I've caught him peeing INSIDE, its another story... If I walk in the room and he's peeing, he stops immediately and RUNS AWAY... This is before I say a single word!

It sounds like he knows what will be coming next. He knows you'll yell and get upset and he's anticipating that action from you. He's trying to avoid a confrontation with you by running off.

Then once I start yelling, he tucks his tail, drops down to his belly on all fours and stops moving or crawls to me very slowly... He know's he's in trouble.

This is a common train of thought for owners, but it's simply not true. He knows your upset. He mostly likely has no clue why. Dogs can read our body language quite well in most cases and he's familiar with how you'll react to this situation.
Him crawling to you on his belly is a submissive behavior, he's trying to appease you. It's like the canine version of someone saying "I'm not a threat. You're the boss...just leave me be please." You only have a two second window of time for him to connect any correction to a specific behavior, that's why scolding him after the fact does no good. He doesn't realize you're scolding him for the accident on the floor, he just knows you're upset and reacts accordingly.

I'll third the suggestion to choose a method and stick with it. Housetraining is all about consistancy and prevention. Keeping him on leash in the house and tied to your belt loop is a great idea. Do this every day, ANY TIME he's out of his crate untill he's fully housetrained. I know, it sounds like a pain in the rump, but this can and will prevent accidents as well as other behavior issues.
The more succesfull he is at going outside, the closer he is to being housebroken.

If for whatever reason you catch him in the act, (which should not happen anyway since he'll be on leash...) then just whisk him outside and let him finish there. Then praise him for going in the right spot.

It sounds like you have a very submissive dog and scolding him for housetraining mistakes will only make him more submissive and not be productive to your training. I know it's hard to not to SOMETHING to let him know that going in the house is wrong, it's human nature to want to be proactive when there is a problem, but in the end scolding will only make him afraid of you and that brings along a whole host of other behavior issues.

You CAN get him housetrained simply by being consistant. It just takes time.

But I feel he bit that wire because I was completely ignoring his attempts to pull himself free from the leash, and I feel he retaliated by biting the wire he just saw me plug in.

He was frustrated and the wire was close to him. There's no malice in what he did. Again, dog's simply don't think that ay. It's easy to apply our own emotions to dogs and assume that they know exactly how what they do effects us...but they don't.

You did a good job ignoreing him, which is exactly what you should have done. He just got frustrated and it made sense to him to bite the wire, not to retaliate, but because it was there. It's that simple.

he loves to tare apart tissues, napkins or papers of anykind... He REPEATEDLY goes in the waste basket of my bathroom and gets used tissues out (from makeup application, nose blowing, whatever-USED TISSUES), grabs them and RUNS like his tail is on fire... Someone will start yelling at him, he runs and hides somewhere and IMMEDIATELY starts shredding it to bits... If/when I catch up to him to get the tissue back he growls and locks down as hard as he can on the tissue. So hard in fact, There are times I can not pry his mouth open to get him to release the tissue (or whatever the item is), and I end up getting only the part OUTSIDE his mouth. I'll reprimand him (Bad boy, etc, yada yada yada), but he'll do it again 10 seconds later.

You may have created this behavior yourself by scolding him when he has something in his mouth. He knows he'll get scolded so he runs away to try and eat it before you catch up to him, then he growls to get you to back off because he knows you'll yell and scold him. He has no reason to give you his treasures, why should he? Have you made it fun for him? No. Instead he's become defensive because he's anticipating a confrontation.

My BC pup is very oral, he used to LOVE to carry trash and papers in his mouth when he was little, so I taught him right away to bring me whatever he had. Now, if he gets in the trash for whatever reason (usually because I made a mistake and didn't put the trashcan away), he brings it to me right away. I then take the item and praise him lavishly. He knows bringing me his treasures will get him praise and sometimes a treat.

The good news? You can change all this. It's never too late. What you've done with him is no different that what plenty of other owners have done too. You didn't ruin him, you just made a few honest mistakes. If you can contact a traienr to work with you in person, especially with the aggression issues that would be great. A trainer who can see your dog hands on will be able to help you train him to give you his tissues or whatever else he has without a fight.

 

[~Tucker&Me~]

Sorry, I thought that I remembered reading that they weren't easy .
My mistake.

~Tucker

 

[Angelique]

Sorry, I thought that I remembered reading that they weren't easy .
My mistake.

~Tucker

I think most little dogs are just so darn quick and harder to keep track of most of the time.

Good post Silverpaws.

 

[RD]

That's exactly it, Angelique. It's easier for an 8lb dog to sneak out of your sight than it is for an 80lb dog to do so. Also, I think it has something to do with the fact that a house is HUGE to a small dog. If a tiny dog eliminates in one corner of the room, the dog can go to the other corner and feel clean. If a large dog does the same thing, he's basically soiled his den. None of my big dogs have ever gone in their rooms, but Ripley will.

Honestly, with the elimination inside the house, he thinks it's fine to go there as long as you aren't present. I have the same trouble with my Papillon - he will sneak away to relieve himself, because he knows I will yell at him if he did it right in front of me. It isn't because he knows peeing in the house is wrong, so don't apply the human emotion of guilt to your dog. He only slinks away because he's used to yelling, slapping with newspapers and having his nose shoved in his own mess. It isn't guilt for doing something wrong.
My best suggestion at this point would be to keep him leashed or in a spot where you can see him at all times. Don't let him out of your sight. If you really need to do something without paying attention to him, confine him to a small space like a crate or exercise pen. Continue to GENEROUSLY reinforce him for eliminating outside.

Honestly, since I haven't been able to solve my own dog's housebreaking issues, I can't give you any good advice here. Definitely see a good trainer/behaviorist and discuss this with them - they will know how to approach the issue.

In the meantime, belly bands are very useful (I use one on my Pap) and they keep the pee off the floor.

 

[dr2little]

OK, this may be a bit of back and forth, question and answer..but here goes.

The only way, and I promise you it is the ONLY way that you are going to get this under control is to supervise him at ALL times and set him up for success.

First, the house training. It sounds like you were doing many good things but only doing them half way. Crating for example must be done whenever you can't watch him completely. The only way that you will stop him from eliminating in your house is to ensure he doesn't get the opportunity - so you can break the cycle.

He should be ONLY either teather to your waist, in his crate or outside doing his business. He should not be on the bed, or wandering at any time. You need to get several weeks (or longer) of clean house days under his belt before you even think about giving him supervised freedom in doors.

As far as the garbage goes, that's something that you can stop by simply not allowing him access and providing him with interesting, interactive toys.

I would also recommend making him work for every thing he considers valuable in his life. Also, keep a "potty schedule" so you start to see a routine develope. Is he fed on a schedule? If so, when is he fed and is he a big drinker?

Lastly, if this doesn't convince you to neuter.....
You will likely see a big difference in him if you just take the plunge and get him snipped. This is the dog that you thought was frustrated by a possible female in heat in your neighborhood...right?

He sounds like a great little guy who just needs clear rules, a predictable routine...AND KIND HANDS. I know it can be frustrating, but hitting him or rubbing his nose in it will do nothing but make things worse. He really isn't doing anything to spite you, it's very clear by your post that he's confused and frightened at this point. If you just stick to your guns and follow on clear method, he will catch on.

EDIT - I'm too dang slow - I started typing before silver's post and finished after...DITTO SILVER:lol-sign:

 

[otch1]

Well put Dr2... my biggest complaint from new small breed, puppy owners is the time frame in which it takes to potty train them. I often find it's because owners handle them differently from large breeds, during this training. Because they're small, less likely to do as much damage (in an owners mind), as say a Rottie pup or Lab pup, running freely thru the house. With large breeds we tend to supervise them more, not taking our eyes off of them when they're not crated, knowing they can break things, leave very large "accidents" on the floor and quickly soak thru the pad of the carpeting. With small dogs, we tend to give them more freedom without realizing it and feel they should "get it" sooner. Adding to the other trainers advice on this thread, I believe you're Dachs now displaying some hormonal maturity and may also be marking, on top of the accidents. While you're starting over with his potty training, reccommend you rent a professional carpet shampooer and remove as much of the scent as you can, also pulling all bedding, couch covers,ect. Anything that hangs from furniture. You'd be suprised at what might have a drop of urine here, a drop there, if you were to take a blacklight thurout the house. Good to do this house cleaning on the day he's scheduled to spend the afternoon at the vet clinic being neutered! That way you can both start fresh. Lol Good luck.

 

[Doberluv]

You've been given good advice. You've also caused all these problems, unintentionally, of course. But punishment like that....yelling, frightening and not understanding how dogs learn and think, what is normal behavior, what they're capable of, expecting them to behave as a human would is what has caused all this. Stern, frightening, intimidating harshness will ruin any dog.

You need to read some books. You really do. Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson will help you get the picture of how dogs operate, their nature, how they learn, what your behavior needs to be like for them to adjust to our ways, how to adjust to theirs, how to live together happily. The Power of Positive Training by Pat Miller is another good one....easy to read.

If you want to have a good relationship with your dog, read those books. A good relationship is the most important tool you can have and a good relationship is up to you to create. Your dog needs to trust you explicitly in order to look to you to learn, to follow your human ways and life style. He is an animal and he does not come automatically knowing all this. You have to teach him. But you have to know HOW to teach him.

I'll toss in a few ideas for potty training. I skimmed some of this thread so some of it may have been covered.

I agree with Dr2little in that most of the things your dog likes need to be earned. Dog sits before he gets a toy or a treat or attention. Make giving you things beneficial for the pup. Condition him to it. Make it a game to give you things by trading him for a treat. Naturally, no one wants to give up something in their possession. So, ask him to "give" while you hand him a higher value treat. Then give him back the item. Teach him that you're no threat and that it's fun to play "give and take." Later you'll be able to take things from him easily. And will only need to give him a treat sometimes to keep him fresh.

Obedience training helps develop a very good bond between dog and owner if it's positive and happy, fun and not confusing. How about a puppy class with a reputable trainer who uses humane, non coersive methods. It sets your dog up to look to you more and more for direction and guidance.

My male Chi mix was potty trained at about 12 weeks of age. My female Chi was older. She had dirty puppy syndrome and I got her at 7 months of age so it took longer. My Doberman was 10 months old before he was reliable. LOL. My Lab and most recent GSD were both potty trained at about 4 or 5 months. I can't remember the other dogs ages. How does that grab ya? LOL.

Yes, crates are wonderful aides and constant supervision while free in the house. Even if you are leaving the room for one minute, pop that pup in a crate or take the pup with you. Literally....constant supervision.

Writing a log helps...when the pup eats, drinks, plays, naps, potties. You develop a sense about when they're likely to need to go in relation to those things. You take the pup out very frequently....every half hour at first. You must prevent accidents. Give a cue word while the pup is going in the designated spot. The second he's finished, reward with lots of happy praise and a treat. Make a big fuss over him. Walk around with him outside a little first if needed to help him to go. Make more structure to his day. Have him do things like playtime, walks, training times, naps, feedings at very close to the same time each day.....the best you can.

In addition, watch for signs that he needs to go; restlessness, circling and sniffing around, sometimes behind furniture. Some dogs seem to like to get away from it all a little bit.

Don't punish a pup if he's having an accident inside. Stay as calm and quiet as you can. That can make him afraid to go in front of you or to go at all. He may think that its scary to go to the bathroom period. It has nothing to do with WHERE he is going. (in his mind) He may start hiding it behind furniture. If one spot inside is a no no, then there are hundreds of other possibilities in the house that might be OK and work..... to his way of thinking. Its much easier to emphasise the reward and reinforcement of the outside spot. That's one place to go....only one possibility. He doesn't have to guess for long as he would when you use punishment for going inside. The process of elimination is much simpler. (in more ways than one. LOL) Its OK to interrupt him by scooping him up and scooting him outside. Show him what you mean.

Don't skip around trying different methods. This is very confusing to the dog. It takes a few weeks of consistantcy..... sameness....always doing the same thing so the dog learns what to expect. It takes some weeks for him to stop guessing and start connecting the reinforcements....the high value rewards with the desired behavior. It takes time to go from guessing to connecting and associating peeing outside with always getting a reward as opposed to nothing very good happening when he has an accident. Outside peeing is what gets him all the good stuff. But it doesn't cause a repititon of the behavior until he's had a strong history of reinforcement.

If you can't calm down and develop more patience, you are going to have no end to problems. Your little pup won't turn out right and you'll both be miserable. Take some deep breaths and remember that this is an animal who doesn't think like we do, who doesn't understand living by our house hold ways until we teach them and it takes time, just as it takes time for a human baby to grow into a responsible adult. It doesn't happen over night. Of course, with dogs, having a short life span, it happens sooner than humans. Actually all too soon. One minute, it seems they're darling little, innocent infants and the next thing you know, you're at the vets watching him put a needle in his veins to put him to sleep humanely to prevent anymore old age suffering. It goes so fast. Those little, short lives deserve the best we can give them in understanding them and educating ourselves.

 

[Toaster]

First let me thank everyone who was nice enough to take the time to read and reply to this post. I do so appreciate it. Now let me try and answer as many questions as I can.

How long did you try the praise method?

I've done each method for long periods of time... We worked with the no reprimanding for inside accidents, and positive reward and praise for outside eliminations for many weeks, probably 2 months give or take.

I say, clip him on a lead, and attach him to your belt.

I've done this to, but this is not an option all the time everyday... Understand that he's small and can easily get hurt by literally being "under" your feet and get stepped on. Plus its not always easy to continue to lead a real life while a dog is next to you. BUT: I have used this method, and like I mentioned, tethering him to the coffee table too, so he can't get in to trouble.

I believe Daschunds are notorious for being hard to potty train. This is something you need to have considerd before getting him.

At the risk of sounding rude, this particular comment is no help. Telling me I should have "known better" than to get a dachshund doesn't assist me in training him now. As was explained after your post other Dachshund owners have successfully trained their dogs, and thats all I want to do. I'm not trying to sound rude, but I absolutely know I'm doing something wrong - thats why I'm asking (again) for help. I just don't understand WHAT I'm doing wrong.... but being told that my dog is hard to housetrain and I should have looked into that before hand doesn't help me, it feels like your belittling me.

have you taken this dog to obedience class yet?

Not yet, thats my next step if I can't work with him myself and with the help of the great people here. I have already spoken with a trainer, told her what he's doing, yada yada yada... She said she was impressed I was doing all the right things, and said she felt she could assist me. Of course she's just going to tell me what to do with him and its up to me to actually "train" him... she's just going to tell/teach me what to do with him. Since I've never gone through any professional dog training before, it sounds to me like the same thing I'm doing here... having someone give me advice to follow to train him successfully... BUT, I am going to enroll him in her next class when she starts a new beginners class.

I'm also getting the feeling this dog is spoiled rotten on one hand, and then blown up at on the other.

I'm not sure how to answer this... Yes, I would say he is absolutely spoiled rotten. Is he blown up on? Of course he has been reprimanded for doing bad. Can anyone sit here and honestly say they've never reprimanded their dog? EVER? I don't think so. I will elaborate on this more at the bottom, but one of the reasons we've tried the scolding/reprimanding/etc is because we were NOT seeing any improvements from other methods. We're not switching house training methods daily or weekly or anything like that... we're sticking with methods for weeks/months at a time - but our goal is to have a dog we can leave unattended and not walk into a pile of poo... I don't think this is an unreasonable goal?

First, the house training. It sounds like you were doing many good things but only doing them half way. Crating for example must be done whenever you can't watch him completely. The only way that you will stop him from eliminating in your house is to ensure he doesn't get the opportunity - so you can break the cycle.

You're probably right about the half way comment... We crate him when we know no one can continuously keep an eye on him... but we do feel guilty leaving him crated for extended periods if we are in the house. And as was suggested about him being so small, he can disappear for 10 seconds and do his thing, which is the problem.

Everyone here should understand, because we all like him, its hard to leave him caged up, whimpering, whining or crying ALL THE TIME... And JUST LIKE YOU PEOPLE, we all have lives outside caring/watching/playing with the dog. Certain daily things NEED to be done, sometimes he can remain in the crate for most of the day, with only a couple of bathroom breaks.

As far as the garbage goes, that's something that you can stop by simply not allowing him access and providing him with interesting, interactive toys.

Toys are something he is NOT short on. He's got more toys, balls, ropes, squeakers, stuffed animals, rubber chew things, etc than I can stand. These items are kept in a short box designed for under the bed storage, with no top or lid, so he can easily access anything in there with his short legs. The box is kept in the kitchen and he knows where they are, as he gets them ALL the time, and leaves them all over the house.

Lastly, if this doesn't convince you to neuter.....
You will likely see a big difference in him if you just take the plunge and get him snipped. This is the dog that you thought was frustrated by a possible female in heat in your neighborhood...right?

Yep.. this is the one...

Now, I'd like to clear up one or two things.. Though we have tried different methods to train him, its not like we're switching methods hourly or daily... We're sticking with certain programs for lengths of time and only switching when we feel we're not moving in the right direction. Like the crating for example. We did the crate/cage thing... kept him in the crate unless he was eating, outside or leashed next to us... Admittedly this is the most successful method we've had with him since he has never soiled his crate ever. but even after weeks of this, in a moment of feeling like he deserves to be out of the cage, he'll do his business in the house in mere seconds and without warning... this is after weeks of working with him using this crate method... and as stated, we'd all like to be able to leave him unattended and NOT in the cage ALL THE TIME... Q: At some point using the cage method, don't the dogs eventually learn? and only get caged at bed time? and are able to roam the house freely without the fear of the bathroom mistake while someone is home?

Another thing is, he's not abused or beaten... He's never been traumatized by a beating or anything.. I may be reading some of the replies in the wrong context, but I got the feeling or impression by reading some of the replies, that you guys may have gotten the idea he's has his nose shoved in crap and slapped around for a year, and that is absolutely not the case. He's much more spoiled than reprimanded. In fact, he may be so spoiled that the praise we give him when peeing outside doesn't compare to the daily playful praise he gets from us for just being in the room.

Eating habits... I can't say he eats on a schedule... I don't eat on a schedule and my kids don't eat on a schedule either. He eats in the morning around the same time (give/take) ... the evening meal can vary greatly depending on OUR schedules. I mean like I said, there are times my wife and I won't get to eat until 9pm or 10pm sometimes.... There's not much I can do about that. He eats good quality food (Innova Evo), he seems to eat different amounts... usually he eats less than 1 cup per day over the 2 meals. Food is never left down (water is), food is put down for feedings and left down for 20 minutes or so.. after that if regardless if he's done or not, the food is taken up until the next feeding.

Walks... Someone suggested walking the dog as a group? C'mon people by real... We are normal regular people... He's a pet, not the center of the universe. I'm sure there are lots of people on here who have the time like that... But we're not going to get together all 6 of us to take Stogie for a walk to go poop... He's not deprived of the chances for walks, he goes outside A LOT. I've asked the question before how many times a day people walk their dogs.. Most seem to be 2 to 3 times... My dog goes out at least double that on a daily basis (4 to 6 times a day)... Immediately in the morning, and before bed, and usually at least 2-3 times in between... Length of time for walks varies depending on him, weather, etc... Sometimes he'll go outside for 2 minutes, do whatever and run back to the door to come inside. Other times he'll want to chill outside, and even other times he won't get off the porch because its raining, cold, damp, too hot, whatever.. 75% of the time HE decides when we come back inside. The rest of the time its us who decides.

Play time... He gets lots of playtime. Usually indoors... we play fetch where I throw his toy, he runs after it and brings it back and we start again. He plays with toy balls and his toys a lot... He doesn't like to be alone, he likes to be next to someone - anyone... pretty much at all times.

CRATE METHOD:
This seems to be the most successful method with him, and maybe others? Which we have used this method... but even after weeks of confinement in the cage, only being out of the crate to eat or bathroom walks or playtime - IF we leave him roaming the house he gives us NO WARNING he might want or need a bathroom break. We have a wind chime/bells near the floor at the front door for him to alert us a bathroom break is needed...but he doesn't use them.

If he's in the crate, he'll hold it for hours... but outside the crate, he won't hold it at all.

I guess from what I'm reading, the suggestion seems to be crate him when we can't watch him... this will be 16 or more hours a day, which seems excessive.

 

[silverpawz]

This seems to be the most successful method with him, and maybe others? Which we have used this method... but even after weeks of confinement in the cage, only being out of the crate to eat or bathroom walks or playtime - IF we leave him roaming the house he gives us NO WARNING he might want or need a bathroom break.

Was he 100% going outside during these few weeks? If not, then you stopped too soon. It takes time for dogs to develop a new habit behavior. His habit right now is to use the bathroom on your floor. How long has he been doing that? Months? Then it'll take months for him to be housebroken.

Think of it like someone who's trying to quite smoking. They've smoked for months, years ever. Would it be easy for them to go cold turkey and be 'cured' within a few weeks? No. Smoking is habit for them and it'll take time before they can go a day without even thinking of a ciggerette. Habits are hard to break.

I've done this to, but this is not an option all the time everyday... Understand that he's small and can easily get hurt by literally being "under" your feet and get stepped on. Plus its not always easy to continue to lead a real life while a dog is next to you.

I know, this can be a pain. I've had to do this with many dogs and trust me I know how annoying it can be to have a dog attached to you all day. But it can be done, I've done it with big dogs and small ones. You can do your daily housework, grab a cup of coffee, sit at the computer, etc. all with a dog attachted to your belt on a 6 foot leash.

It's possible. You just have to want your dog housebroken enough to actually stick to it. You said this method combined with crating him if needed worked better than the rest for him, then keep at it! Honestly there is no quick fix for housetraining, it's going to take time, yes, even months maybe.

It all depends on your dog. If it takes him four months or four weeks of leashing and crating to be housebroken...then that's what it takes.

 

[Doberluv]

But we're not going to get together all 6 of us to take Stogie for a walk to go poop...

ROFLOL!!! I love that! LOL. That would really make the neighbors talk.That cracks me up.

Well, it sounds like you really love this dog and that you're not smacking it around. Sorry if you thought some of us thought that. But you did sound pretty frantic. Well, I can see why you wouldn't want to tether him to you all the time. I've never done that. You couldn't walk around and do your house cleaning very well that way. Its true....they take so much time. I remember my Dobe pup....(that's all I remember clearly. Any further back than my most recent pup is beginning to blur in my addled state) I remember having to wait for him to take a nap so I could make my bed or clean the bathroom. It was just like having a baby or toddler in the house. I had to take him for numerous outings just to give him something to do and wear him out. I had stop talking on the phone for long periods with friends. I couldn't cook anything elaborate. I had to spend almost all my indoor time following him around, making sure he wasn't getting into trouble....showing him things, stopping him from doing unthinkable things, taking him outside constantly. It was a real chore! And this Doberman was one big, wild, maniac of a puppy.

He wasn't reliably housebroken till he was about 10 months old! He was the latest bloomer I ever had and I've had plenty of dogs. LOL. Then there was posting his cropped ears, cleaning, airing, re-doing at least every 4 days, dremelling his nails along with the other 3 dogs. (my Lab has since passed away) I mean, honestly, most of my time was spent running around behind dogs, just like having a houseful of toddle babies. I'm getting too old for that so I will have to think twice before I ever get another puppy, especially a Doberman puppy. I remember with every puppy I ever had thinking how sad when he/she outgrows the puppyhood. They're so cotton pickin cute. Well, Lyric, my Doberman was the first puppy I was willing to mature and get out of this puppy stage. I was counting the days when he might become civilized. He was one big bag of muscles and a holy terror. LOL. Guess what. He got civilized and he is the love of my life.

The reason I'm going off on a tangent is to try and give you something to relate to....try to make you see that it isn't suppose to be easy. Its normal to be frustrated at times, very normal. But it will get easier if you use the tools in the tool box and use them consitantly and I mean consistantly. Be calm and patient no matter what around your pup and that will help too. This puppy stuff will pass.

 

[Toaster]

Again, I want to thank you all for replying and putting up with my rants.

We all care about this stupid little dog, and thats why we all want him to get better and be the dog we all expect him to be. All of us feel badly when he's crated and we're home... we all look forward to the time when we can leave him either roaming the house freely, or even just leave him in the kitchen with a baby gate... confining him only to the kitchen area instead of "doggy jail" as its been called. We'd like to think at some point he'll be able to be trusted to roam the house for 2-3 hours at a time unsupervised without the fear of him using the floor as a toilet.

Crating seems to work because he does not soil his cage. As far as the tethering goes - he's gotten himself into trouble even being tethered near us in the same room... (which is usually in the tv room, being tied to the coffee table) Most recently the biting of the laptop cable episode. And once before that taking a poop on the floor while we were watching an episode of the Sopranos (as I recall).

But, we have continued the crating - even before the post... for the aforementioned reasons. I guess maybe I/WE are just expecting too much too soon? It just amazes me that I'm still at what seems to be square 1 with him after 1 year! When others claim they've had success in just a few weeks.

Quick story: I'm volunteering at a Haunted House on the weekends... the head of security has a female german shepard. AMAZINGLY OBEDIENT! He says shes perfectly house trained, and I've seen how "in control" of her, he is. He can release her leash and she will not move more than a foot or two from his side. No wondering, no barking... He tells her to shake and she lifts her paw to shake hands.. A simple trick? perhaps, but as the owner of a dog who can't let his 1 year dog run loose in the house for 5 minutes... I'm AMAZINGLY impressed. He explains that he trained her as a puppy, and in just a couple short weeks she was completely house trained with no mistakes whatsoever. Another friend of mine has a Border Collie (Lasie dog), female, who they trained in a month or 2... Paper trained her at first, slowly moved the paper outside and now she never makes mistakes in the house and she's never been crated - ever. Again, here I am with my Dox and --- you know the rest.

Another perfect example... When we go to Petsmart, my dog feels the need to announce his presence by barking as we enter the doors... and tugging me along (unsuccessfully I might add, remember he's only 8 pounds) towards whatever HE wants to go to.... People, other pets, whatever... No verbal command seems to calm him down - I have to perform a stern leash correction. And have even had to either put him in a push basket or hold him while we're in there because he simply won't calm down... I see the other pet owners and their pets walk around happily, calmly with their animals by their sides quiet and behaved...

So, to quote Doberluv, I'm sorry for the excessive rant, but I'm trying to put a face and feeling to my specific situation with him. Yes, right now I'm frustrated... at both of us.. him and me. I don't expect him to learn by him self, but I can assure ANYONE WHO READS THIS... We have all tried to teach him. He is NOT smacked around or abused verbally or physically. Is he corrected when he's bad? Of course he is. Is he praised? YOU HAVE NO IDEA! Like I said earlier - this dog gets praised for walking into a room!

** I just want him to be a good dog... No toilet inside the house and perhaps be responsive to basic verbal commands..come/sit/stay **

 

[Brattina88]

Sorry, but I just had to grin at the female GSD comment... not that I'm biased or anything... but it does make an owner feel good when their dog actually listens

I so know how you feel. It is soooo frustrating when your dog is embarrassing (the petsmart example), making you feel like a failure, or just generally not listening...
I'm sure you can imagine how it feels to own a dog that everybody admires, and then have another one that makes you want to pull your hair out. One that, as an example (yes, this happened to me) looks at you and then hikes his leg on the couch... And you just want to scream AAAHHGGG! YOU KNOW BETTER!! *lol*

Your not alone - not every dog is easily house trained

I would like to say, however, that I really do think it'll be easier for you if you put him on a feeding schedule. I know its hard, when everybody's timing is different all the time, but if there is anyway to try it, please do. I think it'll be easier for you to revamp your efforts and get the job done...

Your frustration sounds very much like a similar problem a friend of mine had a little while ago. The dog seemed to know that he needed to go outside: every time she took him outside he would go. But if she didn't take him out, and he needed to go, he made no effort to 'tell' her he needed to go out. So, she used a clicker, some treats, and tied bells to the door and taught him that every time he rung the bell, he got to go outside. I don't know if that'll help your situation, but I thought I'd give it a try...

Also, I'm glad to hear that you're going to enroll him in the next basic obedience class. It sounds crazy, but the hands on / visual experience will be a lot more help than us attempting by text on the internet. Besides, the trainer can see, touch, and talk to your dog. Something we simply can not do. So definitely consider those classes and possibly neutering him...

I hope we're helping a little, and please continue to vent and ask for help ~

Hang in there!!

 

[BlackPuppy]

You got a lot of really good advice. I think one of the problems with having smaller dogs is that they are so DARN cute! And doting on them a lot gives them a sense of importance. You should find a good obedience class immediately. Maybe you have dog clubs like I do in my area. The obedience class will help you really bond with your dog and show him that you are the leader and must be obeyed. Sometimes respect from dogs is hard to earn, but it is necessary.

Anyway, formal classes really helped me bond with my older male (intact) dog. When I first got him, he was prone to lifting the leg in the house on occassion. Probably because of a previous owner's left over doggie smell. With training and - got to say this - one good two handed shove on the butt, and an earshattering "NO!", the second he lifted his leg, he no longer thinks about soiling the house.

Since I love my dogs to excess, I continue to take both of my dogs to classes. Not continuously, but one or two a year. Both dogs are doing agility or in agility class, and both dogs are learning tracking.

I wish you luck. Also, when I was housebreaking my puppy she was either outside or in her crate inside. She got zero free time in the house unless I was actively playing with her. Since I'm single and work full time, it took about 5 months to completely house break her. She's not an indicator, so I make sure I let her out often enough for potty breaks.

 

[Vylula]

What are bellybands???