Update on Bush Admin. Regulation--Ladies, read this

I truly do fail to see the problem. YOU don't want to do the procedure, give BC pills, or share information about who will or whatever else I am looking for? OK fine, I am an educated adult, I can find my OWN provider who will.

Come on girls...........we aren't living in the dark ages where information is not readily available. I just about GUARANTEE that if/when this becomes an issue you will have places ADVERTISING IN BOLD that they provide X,Y, and Z.........there will be no problems in finding what you want or need.

Not only do I find it more than fair not to force people into doing procedures they find morally wrong............I find it preposterous that you would say "find another job" to a doctor or nurse who did not want to participate in abortions or BC if they felt it was wrong. I am sure they became a doctor or nurse for MANY other reasons besides those, and helping people in a way they find morally right is a good thing.

Honestly, I know of many vets who don't participate in cropping, docking, or putting to sleep an animal they don't agree should be PTS. They don't need to find another job..........it's their right as a professional to refuse those services. The only difference is they are NOT federally funded.

I don't see how you can be for the right to choose.............but be against others choosing NOT to participate.

Then I am going to suggest a downright radical thing here.

I suggest that Hypothetical Coop who wishes to be able to legally withhold birth control pills, Plan B emergency contraception and other forms of contraception, and explicitly allows workers to withhold information about such services and refuse to refer patients elsewhere get another job. You know, one where Hypothetical Cooper's job is not, actually to provide health care to real people who desperately need it. I suggest she gets a job somewhere where her "morals" do not interfere with her work. Period.

You know why? Because her "morals" should not be interfering with my health. Period.

And, btw, I don't call those 'morals in action'... I call that control. If anyone here doesn't see it that way, read the italicized sentence again.

I truly do fail to see the problem. YOU
Come on girls...........we aren't living in the dark ages where information is not readily available. I just about GUARANTEE that if/when this becomes an issue you will have places ADVERTISING IN BOLD that they provide X,Y, and Z.........there will be no problems in finding what you want or need.
what to do with their body.

You know why? Because her "morals" should not be interfering with my health. Period.

.

i'm just using your quote to illustrate a point. It's kind of funny how perspective changes things. I don't really see her Morals as affecting your health concerning BC or abortion pills or any of that. actually your decisions are the only thing that affect YOUR health.

and i just love how this country views pregnancy and ovulation as a "medical crisis" all the time. There couldn't be anything more normal and i have yet to find anything more amazing on this earth than how life forms, and it is about the furthest thing from a detriment to someone's health I can think of.

Yet most in this country seem to view it as a pain in the ass medical condition that needs to be controlled. There is an easy way to control it, but that would involve too much self control or self responsibility because in America, we can do what we want when we want to.

Refusing to perform an emergency abortion when the mother is hemorrhaging or something is one thing, refusing to give a morning after people because somebody was a little careless is perfectly acceptable to me. Witholding info on where else it could be obtained or who else can give it is wrong though however.

Step back and take a look at the big picture, how would this situation differ if we've decided that Doctors or nurses can not let personal thought or morals or opinion sway their actions. Let's say a person comes in complaining of intense pain in their arm. They do a short test and see no evidence of severe damage, and the patient has inconsitencies in their story. The patient is demanding some oxycontin, vicodin, hydrocodone, etc, for the pain because it is so intense. The doctor refuses because he believes this person is trying to just get pills, and any doctor with any balls at all should not dispense those drugs as easily as most ER's do.

By lots of people's thinking these doctors should just give it out, because thepatient wants it. Or how about the plastic surgeon that thinks that cosmetic surgery is for vain or psychologically ill people. he/she prefers to treat only those disfigured through trauma, or congenital deformaties. Should they be forced to perform boob jobs??? Not being able to get BC or get an abortion pill are hardly medical emergencies, you may think they are, but they aren't. a severed femoral artery is an emergency and no doctor will refuse to treat you, worried that your one night stand may have slipped one past the goalie and want an abortion pill???? well that isn't, in that case the doctor has nothing to do with that, just YOU.

i'm just using your quote to illustrate a point. It's kind of funny how perspective changes things. I don't really see her Morals as affecting your health concerning BC or abortion pills or any of that. actually your decisions are the only thing that affect YOUR health.

and i just love how this country views pregnancy and ovulation as a "medical crisis" all the time. There couldn't be anything more normal and i have yet to find anything more amazing on this earth than how life forms, and it is about the furthest thing from a detriment to someone's health I can think of.

Yet most in this country seem to view it as a pain in the ass medical condition that needs to be controlled. There is an easy way to control it, but that would involve too much self control or self responsibility because in America, we can do what we want when we want to.

Refusing to perform an emergency abortion when the mother is hemorrhaging or something is one thing, refusing to give a morning after people because somebody was a little careless is perfectly acceptable to me. Witholding info on where else it could be obtained or who else can give it is wrong though however.

Step back and take a look at the big picture, how would this situation differ if we've decided that Doctors or nurses can not let personal thought or morals or opinion sway their actions. Let's say a person comes in complaining of intense pain in their arm. They do a short test and see no evidence of severe damage, and the patient has inconsitencies in their story. The patient is demanding some oxycontin, vicodin, hydrocodone, etc, for the pain because it is so intense. The doctor refuses because he believes this person is trying to just get pills, and any doctor with any balls at all should not dispense those drugs as easily as most ER's do.

By lots of people's thinking these doctors should just give it out, because thepatient wants it. Or how about the plastic surgeon that thinks that cosmetic surgery is for vain or psychologically ill people. he/she prefers to treat only those disfigured through trauma, or congenital deformaties. Should they be forced to perform boob jobs??? Not being able to get BC or get an abortion pill are hardly medical emergencies, you may think they are, but they aren't. a severed femoral artery is an emergency and no doctor will refuse to treat you, worried that your one night stand may have slipped one past the goalie and want an abortion pill???? well that isn't, in that case the doctor has nothing to do with that, just YOU.

i'm just using your quote to illustrate a point. It's kind of funny how perspective changes things. I don't really see her Morals as affecting your health concerning BC or abortion pills or any of that. actually your decisions are the only thing that affect YOUR health.

and i just love how this country views pregnancy and ovulation as a "medical crisis" all the time. There couldn't be anything more normal and i have yet to find anything more amazing on this earth than how life forms, and it is about the furthest thing from a detriment to someone's health I can think of.

Yet most in this country seem to view it as a pain in the ass medical condition that needs to be controlled. There is an easy way to control it, but that would involve too much self control or self responsibility because in America, we can do what we want when we want to.

So? You shouldn't have to. And not everyone can, Coop. What about the women not as lucky as you living on a limited income with limited resources? What about them? This is about narrowing womens' access to health care...

....until, since BC is going to be defined as abortion, when the anti-choicers win, and abortion is banned? Then where will we go? Oh, wait, we wont have many birth control methods... if any at all..

I know, I know. That will NEVER pass. I shouldn't worry about it. *snort*

Well, I don't find it preposterous at all to tell an abortion provider to find another job if they don't like doing their job and wish to deny women abortions, moral reasons or no. .

As to someone who feels BC is "wrong" and they refuse to dispense it? Once again, find another job. If someone is a PHARMACIST and they feel BC is "wrong" they either need to set up their own, private pharmacy where they do not sell such products or find another line of work. If someone is a nurse and it is their job to dispense BC, well, I honestly have no idea why someone would get a degree as a nurse and then dispense BC, but I don't presume to know too much about nursing, either. Anyhow, if that is their job they need to go be a nurse somewhere else, because I am sure there are plenty of positions open that do not require dispensing of BC..

Mkay, seriously? Comparing refusing abortion to refusal to cosmetic procedures? Comparing them to dispensing birth control?

That's.. Coop, I'm disappointed. .

Because it's not about that, it's about taking the rights of women away. It's about taking away our choice. It's about controlling our bodies.

It's also about health care providers refusing access to health care. Not only that they can refuse to provide it, but absolutely refusing access. And that being legal, not only legal, but that companies can be FINED for it.

It's about low-income women who will be the first affected. It's about eventually getting us all.

There is always planned parenthood............been around for years, and will be around for more to come. And I have no doubt others just like them will crop up if there is a need.

Well yes, if you mean a job with another office that doesn't do those procedures..........I thought you meant it as "get out of health care" sorry, my misunderstanding. If I am a nurse who doesn't agree with abortion, then NO, I am not going to apply to an abortion clinic for a job in the first place.
If I am hired at a hospital as a RN and THEN asked to help in an abortion...........(just say I find it wrong) I shouldn't be forced to do that, get another nurse who is ok with it. But if I am hired at a place I KNOW and willingly take employment with who offers procedures I am uncomfortable with......then yes, find another job where I am comfortable.

Or, release the hounds, how about this scenario?

My ex beat the crap out of me so badly that I miscarried. I was almost 5 months along, so when the miscarriage occured, it wasn't a simple process. I was losing a lot of blood and aside from that I had to have a D&C which is, tecnically, an abortion to remove the fetus (aka my would be child).

Suppose, while I was there, bleeding profusely, the ER doc said "Oh noes, this is against my morals."

Do you REALLY think I was in the mood or shape to go doctor shopping?

This pisses me off.

Or, release the hounds, how about this scenario?

My ex beat the crap out of me so badly that I miscarried. I was almost 5 months along, so when the miscarriage occured, it wasn't a simple process. I was losing a lot of blood and aside from that I had to have a D&C which is, tecnically, an abortion to remove the fetus (aka my would be child).

Suppose, while I was there, bleeding profusely, the ER doc said "Oh noes, this is against my morals."

Do you REALLY think I was in the mood or shape to go doctor shopping?

This pisses me off.

ETA: And who's to say where this whole "Refusal to do something based on morals" stops? Where is the line drawn?

What if 5 years from now, Dr. DoRight feels that organ transplants aren't natural, and therefore against his morals? What if Dr. So and So feels like having someone kept alive artificially is against HIS morals and refuses to do it? **** the rights of the patient of the patient's families, right? I think we're walking a VERY fine line with this, and I hate to see what the future is going to hold.......

I gave that as an example, and in that case it is an emergency. There is a difference between a hemorrhaging woman with danger to her life, than someone that just doesn't want to have a baby. A huge difference and I don't know of many docs that dispute that. and BC shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as "health care". It's not, it's a pill of convenience and shouldn't be held to the same standard as "health care"

Or, release the hounds, how about this scenario?

My ex beat the crap out of me so badly that I miscarried. I was almost 5 months along, so when the miscarriage occured, it wasn't a simple process. I was losing a lot of blood and aside from that I had to have a D&C which is, tecnically, an abortion to remove the fetus (aka my would be child).

Suppose, while I was there, bleeding profusely, the ER doc said "Oh noes, this is against my morals."

Do you REALLY think I was in the mood or shape to go doctor shopping?

This pisses me off.

ETA: And who's to say where this whole "Refusal to do something based on morals" stops? Where is the line drawn?

What if 5 years from now, Dr. DoRight feels that organ transplants aren't natural, and therefore against his morals? What if Dr. So and So feels like having someone kept alive artificially is against HIS morals and refuses to do it? **** the rights of the patient of the patient's families, right? I think we're walking a VERY fine line with this, and I hate to see what the future is going to hold.......