Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dogs - General Dog Chat


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #31  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:58 PM
Renee750il's Avatar
Renee750il Renee750il is offline
Felurian
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the selas blooms
Posts: 94,266
Default

Maybe they all need a good alpha roll in the hay?
__________________
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
ó Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


Good Kharma Tags
Felurian
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-22-2012, 01:00 PM
Red.Apricot's Avatar
Red.Apricot Red.Apricot is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern California
Posts: 2,664
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
Maybe they all need a good alpha roll in the hay?
I snorted so hard I woke Elsie up.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-22-2012, 01:03 PM
Dogdragoness's Avatar
Dogdragoness Dogdragoness is offline
FINALLY warm ... YAY :D
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Gillett/San Antonio TX
Posts: 3,372
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OwnedByBCs View Post
Honestly I can't stand training discussions. Ever. I'm really not much of a trainer myself- I like teaching my dogs stupid tricks and all that, but when it comes to seminars and training classes I am so not interested. Why? Because most of the trainers I end up with tell me that I'm doing something wrong, even if its producing the desired result. Sorry, I am not of the opinion that learning is done in one specific way.

And yes, I am a "learning based" trainer in the sense that I believe that a clicker and treats are the most powerful tools in dog training- and those are generally the only tools I use. I don't use prongs or chokes or e-collars on my own dogs, ever. Do I think it's wrong to use them on other dogs? Eh, I don't know. I feel like I've never really been shown how a prong improved an owner or a dog's life. But I'm not going to say I never correct my dogs..

I enjoy dog behavior, and I understand it. But for some reason, when people start talking about it, I shut down. Maybe it's because I believe that positive trainers need to be positive with PEOPLE too, or the point is totally lost!
Like 100%

I use whatever method the DOG responds to (most of the time I can get a dog to respond with positive ways BUT some breeds like cattle dogs who are very testy & almost NEED to know where the limit it by being told no & "ah ah!" Every now & again.

"Positive punishment" at the right time isn't always a bad thing
__________________


Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-22-2012, 02:28 PM
Linds's Avatar
Linds Linds is offline
Twin 2
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 6,644
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
Like 100%

I use whatever method the DOG responds to (most of the time I can get a dog to respond with positive ways BUT some breeds like cattle dogs who are very testy & almost NEED to know where the limit it by being told no & "ah ah!" Every now & again.

"Positive punishment" at the right time isn't always a bad thing
See, that's not it to me. The issue I have isn't that they aren't fans of using correction to train a dog or that they believe no dog needs it to learn.

My issue is shoving that belief down others throats and if they don't follow their strict guidelines of what is or isn't ok they start freaking out about it and chase them around crying dog abuse, laziness and so on.

I have an issue with them hunting around the internet and creating mobs to witch hunt people because they don't train like you. Educate, talk, discuss, lead by example and most of all have a bit of empathy.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-22-2012, 04:57 PM
Danefied's Avatar
Danefied Danefied is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Southeast
Posts: 1,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
See, that's not it to me. The issue I have isn't that they aren't fans of using correction to train a dog or that they believe no dog needs it to learn.

My issue is shoving that belief down others throats and if they don't follow their strict guidelines of what is or isn't ok they start freaking out about it and chase them around crying dog abuse, laziness and so on.

I have an issue with them hunting around the internet and creating mobs to witch hunt people because they don't train like you. Educate, talk, discuss, lead by example and most of all have a bit of empathy.
This this this!

I firmly believe that there are trainers out there good enough that they never need positive punishment. Iím not one of them, I hope to be one day, but Iím not there yet. I am all for someone helping me find that way. But if I show up to learn, donít start by berating me for what Iím doing. Show me something ELSE to do instead!
__________________
"We become better trainers by refusing to swallow uncritically what is tossed to us as truth,
by developing our powers of empathy and observation,
and by searching for better ways to teach and educate the dogs we love."
~Suzanne Clothier
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-22-2012, 05:14 PM
elegy's Avatar
elegy elegy is offline
overdogged
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 7,657
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
I have an issue with them hunting around the internet and creating mobs to witch hunt people because they don't train like you. Educate, talk, discuss, lead by example and most of all have a bit of empathy.
This so much.

And this is the bit they do not (cannot?) understand.
__________________
ARCHX Luce CD CD-H RA RL3 RLV RL2X RL1X CGC TT
Mushroom Couch-holder-downer EX
Flyball Ninja Steve RA RL1 CL1-R CL1-F FMCh
and Bean FDCh-S
Save the pit bull, Save the world
Are you Unruly?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-22-2012, 05:19 PM
Greenmagick's Avatar
Greenmagick Greenmagick is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 2,953
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linds View Post
I have an issue with them hunting around the internet and creating mobs to witch hunt people because they don't train like you. Educate, talk, discuss, lead by example and most of all have a bit of empathy.
This!

I actually agree with the majority of WHAT they are saying, just not execution of it and yes, the hunting around the internet in mob formation. I have seen some really heated nasty arguments over things they are basically even agreeing with each other on.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-22-2012, 05:52 PM
Lyzelle's Avatar
Lyzelle Lyzelle is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 2,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OwnedByBCs View Post
Honestly I can't stand training discussions. Ever. I'm really not much of a trainer myself- I like teaching my dogs stupid tricks and all that, but when it comes to seminars and training classes I am so not interested. Why? Because most of the trainers I end up with tell me that I'm doing something wrong, even if its producing the desired result. Sorry, I am not of the opinion that learning is done in one specific way.

And yes, I am a "learning based" trainer in the sense that I believe that a clicker and treats are the most powerful tools in dog training- and those are generally the only tools I use. I don't use prongs or chokes or e-collars on my own dogs, ever. Do I think it's wrong to use them on other dogs? Eh, I don't know. I feel like I've never really been shown how a prong improved an owner or a dog's life. But I'm not going to say I never correct my dogs..

I enjoy dog behavior, and I understand it. But for some reason, when people start talking about it, I shut down. Maybe it's because I believe that positive trainers need to be positive with PEOPLE too, or the point is totally lost!
This.

And this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
I use whatever method the DOG responds to (most of the time I can get a dog to respond with positive ways BUT some breeds like cattle dogs who are very testy & almost NEED to know where the limit it by being told no & "ah ah!" Every now & again.
Number one thing that turns me off of trainers : "Dogs only learn ONE way. You HAVE to make them want to work FOR YOU. It doesn't matter if that goes against every more likely way the dog is going to better learn this. You're wrong. All dogs respond the EXACT SAME WAY to this EXACT SAME STIMULUS." Doesn't matter if the reaction is fear, frustration, annoyance, happy, disengagement, boredom, etc. 95% of trainers feel like ALL dogs should only react ONE way to that stimulus. And yes, +R trainers are the worst with that, but it applies all across the board, to many trainers with many different methods.

I'd rather do what works best for the dog, period. Some dogs need a choice. Easy/fun or hard/not fun. Some dogs are simply born more handler-oriented. Some dogs are far more stubborn and would rather learn things on their own. Other dogs like guidance in order to find their confidence. Some dogs are puzzle solvers. Some dogs couldn't give a hoot about their handler, because the entire breed was specifically bred to NOT be handler-oriented and to think independently. Other dogs were born to live and die by their handler's word. Some dogs like fast learning. Some dogs like slow learning. Some work best with lures. Some work best with shaping. Others learn best by the example of other dogs in the household.

If something is frustrating the dog or impeding progress, sure, offer a different view on how to do things because dogs CAN be individual in their training needs. But all the bashing, insinuating, and throat-cramming "education" isn't really needed. Makes things a lot less fun for the handler and the dog. And you are probably turning off far more people than you are convincing.

So everyone, from both sides, just need to calm the heck down, go walk their dog, take a chill pill, and have a happy Thanksgiving. And if they don't, then stop shoving your nose in drama and you wouldn't have that problem.
__________________
Zander and HarleyQuinn
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:11 PM
OwnedByBCs's Avatar
OwnedByBCs OwnedByBCs is offline
Will Creep For Sheep
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogdragoness View Post
Like 100%

I use whatever method the DOG responds to (most of the time I can get a dog to respond with positive ways BUT some breeds like cattle dogs who are very testy & almost NEED to know where the limit it by being told no & "ah ah!" Every now & again.

"Positive punishment" at the right time isn't always a bad thing
See, you missed the point of my post.

I just hate the term positive trainer so I don't call myself that, but I am pretty much that. All my dogs are clicker trained, and when I do "correct" my dogs, it is with my voice or with body blocking. I guess to some that means I'm "balanced" or whatever, but to me, I hate correcting my dogs- because for the most part I feel like I probably could be doing something else but don't have the patience or am too lazy. Eh, at least I admit that. LOL!

My point was that in general, hardcore trainers, no matter what methods they use, are crazy.

And of course I like training discussions with you guys, because if it gets to be past my limits I can always leave. Sometimes, when you're stuck with someone who is being crazy at you in person, its really hard to walk away.
__________________

www.brigadoonbordercollies.com
http://brigadoonbc.wordpress.com/

Do you want your dog to respect you because you demanded it, or because you truly earned it?
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-22-2012, 06:13 PM
OwnedByBCs's Avatar
OwnedByBCs OwnedByBCs is offline
Will Creep For Sheep
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
Posts: 588
Default

For the record, I'm not advocating any method or any trainer. I'm advocating STFU and keep it to yourself, whatever it is.
__________________

www.brigadoonbordercollies.com
http://brigadoonbc.wordpress.com/

Do you want your dog to respect you because you demanded it, or because you truly earned it?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:33 PM.


©1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site