Zen K9 Dog "Training"

[inspector16]

Ok, so I was perusing another forum that is based in NY, and ran across a thread about this dog "trainer" whose company is called Zen K9. Apparently he and his group have been seen abusing some of the dogs they're walking to achieve the desired behavior. That desired behavior apparently being total fear and submission. They've actually been reported to the police and ASPCA a number of times for animal abuse.

Here's a link to the thread for anyone interested.

http://ny.urbanhound.com/houndTalk/Forum.asp?linkid=24043&linklevel=1

But he has also posted a promo video on youtube. Watch this video and tell me those dogs aren't scared and completely stressed out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYnqAXs_7BM

Talk about a guy with a big ego. You can tell this guy is more interested in looking like he's "in control", rather than actually having any knowledge of dog behavior. Geez, it's just irritating watching and listening to this guy. It's as if he watched a season of Dog Whisperer and decided that's all he needed to know to start a dog walking/training service. Those poor dogs. They all look miserable.

I don't usually post threads ranting about someone or something, but this time I just had to.

Feel free to post your comments under the video. I did, but they keep getting deleted. Imagine that.

 

[Doberluv]

Sheesh! I can't watch videos on my dial up but may when I go to Seattle in a week or so on my daughter's computer. But going from what you describe, without my actually seeing it, it sounds awful. I hope someone shuts him down if it's true. It's just horrific what so many people put these poor animals through. Such a shame.

Yeah, imagine that that your comments got deleted! You should post this anywhere you can think of and get the word out. Maybe people will listen and not go to him.

 

[adojrts]

Yeah that sounds like the woman that has just started up 'training' in this area. She called me once looking for agility lessons, but never came, her 'agility prospect' was put down for aggression. This person has never competed with dogs in anything, to my knowledge has never even been to a class for anything and was pleased to tell me her bible on dog training was Koehler, which is the ONLY book she has read.................wonderful. And her best training tool was an e collar, she also couldn't understand why I wouldn't allow her to use or have it on her dog IF she came to class..........go figure.

 

[Criosphynx]

I hope they have shorts because i see alot of flooding.

 

[mrose_s]

Oh.. my... god.

Kudos to the dogs, I can't believe they are putting up with that crap.

 

[inspector16]

I've been following the threads on the urbanhound forum, and it sounds like this group is under pretty tight monitoring now by the locals. They've been getting together to try to get video of the guy, and continue to submit complaints to the police to create a paper trail that documents his behavior.

Apparently the problem is that most of his customers never actually see him in action, because they just hire him and his crew to come pick up their dogs and take them on walks. So even when the owners are told about what's going on, they don't believe what they're being told, so they continue to use his services. Which is why the locals are trying to capture his antics on video, so they can show everyone what he's really doing. If he's showing what he's showing on a youtube video to promote his business, I can only imagine what he does off camera.

It's just sad and kind of scary to think that anyone who sounds convincing, even if they have little or no knowledge about a particular subject matter, can so easily convince others that they know what they're talking about. The first dog trainer I worked with was like that. He was from the dominance school of thought, and he had me convinced that his way was the right way. Well, I finally figured out that his way was the wrong way, and it's taken me the past 2 years to get my dogs back to normal, and they're not completely there yet. So when I watch this guy, putting these dogs through similar methods I was taught to put my own dogs through, it makes me shudder. Because I know first hand the damage these types of trainers and methods can do. I'm just really surprised and kind of shocked that these types of trainers are still out there and successful.

 

[Gypsydals]

I couldn't watch the video. It has been removed due to terms of use violation. Atleast thats the message I got.

 

[inspector16]

Yeah, it looks like they were reported. I wouldn't be surprised if another one pops up though. If it does I'll post the link here so you can see it.

 

[Kayla]

Kudos to the community for putting together such an effort to shut this idiot down. Scary to think multiple compliants have been made to the police and still nothing has happened (yet).

Poor pups.

 

[inspector16]

Hey everyone, one of his videos is back up. Check it out when you can, and give me your impressions of what you see. I'm curious to hear what you guys think.

BTW, this video seems to be more of a promo video with music, so you don't get to hear what he's saying in this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnpBS10Z-PM

 

[Cheetah]

I notice they don't show the actual training of the dogs in that video - probably the reason it hasn't been removed yet.

 

[Criosphynx]

i love how in the begining he had to tug on the dogs lead to get a down after it ignored him.

what a tool this guy is.

 

[Cheetah]

I found another one http://www.zootoo.com/zootootv/v/zenk9promovideo

 

[Maxy24]

That's awful. I have no sound but they just look like a bunch of poorly trained dogs who are afraid of him. I mean he had to collar correct the group of them (which was stupid because he was collar correcting dogs who were behaving just fine as well as ones who did not listen) like 10 times before they all followed his command. That's not good training it's just fear and intimidation. Then the little poodle in the first group slinked away as he jumped over them, poor dogs.

 

[inspector16]

That's awful. I have no sound but they just look like a bunch of poorly trained dogs who are afraid of him. I mean he had to collar correct the group of them (which was stupid because he was collar correcting dogs who were behaving just fine as well as ones who did not listen) like 10 times before they all followed his command. That's not good training it's just fear and intimidation. Then the little poodle in the first group slinked away as he jumped over them, poor dogs.

Yeah, that's all I see as well. A bunch of scared, intimidated dogs who don't know what to do, so they're just shutting down. I left dominance training behind years ago, but even the dominance trainer who I worked with during those days gave positive input to the dogs when they were doing what was asked of them.

I can only make judgements based on these videos, but I think I can see enough in them to know I don't like what I'm seeing.

 

[Doberluv]

What a moron! Like the dogs understand all those long English sentences. Yup...all the yanking on the leashes, no matter what the dogs are doing....Great training! Just a bunch of intimidated dogs that are having no fun in life at all. Just look at their body language and facial expressions. They look like slaves. Pathetic!!

 

[Renee750il]

I could only stand to watch into a minute and a half of this . . . when the poor puppy just shuts down completely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJRor7-SjR0&feature=related

 

[Cheetah]

I love how they have deleted my comment, and I hadn't even said anything bad... >9.9<

 

[SisMorphine]

Dude this guy thinks he's the next coming of Cesar Milan. Tool.

 

[inspector16]

I love how they have deleted my comment, and I hadn't even said anything bad... >9.9<

That happened to me a few times too. Though admittedly, I was being just a wee bit critical.

I'm also sure they didn't appreciate my comment about how regardless of the training methods, I found it incredibly cheesy that he had to rip off Cesar's "Exercise, Discipline, Affection" tagline. I mean geez, can't you even come up with your own mantra? Oh wait, I forgot. He did add to it. "Exercise, Discipline, Correction, Affection." Very creative. How lame can you get?