Your thoughts please (politics and gas prices)

[Nechochwen]

Umm... offshore drilling would be able to help us, had it been started about 10 years ago. It'll take a long time for a site to be chosen, a rig to be designed and constructed, and finally put into service and ramp up to full production. By that point, it's pointless. All this is is political posturing. We need to dump all our resources into renewable sources, such as biodiesel from algae and bacteria, better ways to produce electricity (nuclear is a good option... but too many people think it's dangerous due to Chernobyl. Chernobyl was an accident caused by gross mismanagement of a inferior facility.) A combination of wind and solar power to supplement the power grid at this stage is a great start, or even generators that harness the motion of the waves at sea. Local communities can explore different options based on what's available to them.

 

[Lilavati]

Yeah, I didn't think that people still thought that American branded cars were actually made in America.

Barely any of the profit gained for the companies of American cars are actually going into the pockets of American workers (er...unless you count the corporate heads who take money from wherever they can get it).

It depends on the model. The Ford Mustang, last time I checked, was made in the US.

 

[Suzzie]

i think everyone is neglecting to mention that fact that it would be several years, at the very least, before this oil began making its way onto the market.

in the meantime, let's ruin the environment even more. Yay for us.

 

[xpaeanx]

Uhh.... you do know that most fords are built in Mexico or Canada, right?

Seeing as it costs Ford about $1000 less to make a minivan in Canada than it does in the US due to pensions and what not they promised factory workers back when they dominated the american car landscape.

no you have to check the model. They get american made percentages, which take into consideration where the parts where made and where the car was assembled... which varies from model to model for all companies. I drive a mustang and a bronco. Mustangs have a high american made percentage... not sure what percent the bronco is though...

 

[girlbuffalo1]

Well I know that our Subaru plant now makes tons of Camry's as well...

I think it's a stupid idea. People just can't deal with sacrifice--seriously people think they are struggling if they can't go out to eat when the want or cruise around for fun. We need to wean ourselves off oil the hard way--and that is high gas prices..

Since prices topped $4, I heard that consumption is down 2%--only 2%!--

 

[Nechochwen]

i think everyone is neglecting to mention that fact that it would be several years, at the very least, before this oil began making its way onto the market.

in the meantime, let's ruin the environment even more. Yay for us.

Umm... offshore drilling would be able to help us, had it been started about 10 years ago. It'll take a long time for a site to be chosen, a rig to be designed and constructed, and finally put into service and ramp up to full production. By that point, it's pointless.

Top of the page

 

[Chewbecca]

Well I know that our Subaru plant now makes tons of Camry's as well...

I think it's a stupid idea. People just can't deal with sacrifice--seriously people think they are struggling if they can't go out to eat when the want or cruise around for fun. We need to wean ourselves off oil the hard way--and that is high gas prices..

Since prices topped $4, I heard that consumption is down 2%--only 2%!--

Are you kidding me? We can't deal with sacrifice? Uh...I've made sacrifice. And plenty of others have too.
And, no, people think they are struggling because gas is well over $4 a gallon in most places and it's BS, and NOT ONLY IS IT BS, it's UNNECESSARY.

The price of oil went down today. But the price at the gas pump went up.
Explain that.

 

[Nechochwen]

I just want to be able to buy a tesla roadster...

0 to 60 mph in 3.9 seconds

The only downside is that it only has a 220 mile range per charge... which means road trips in it would suck.

 

[Miakoda]

The price of gas is not unexpected. Heck, it was predicted that this would occur immediately follow the attack on September 11th. And in some cases, it was predicted even earlier.

In my opinion, the stupid ban on drilling should've never been created in the first place. We are the only developed nation just sitting on our own oil, all the while bitching and complaining that other countries won't sell it to us cheaper. Not to mention that oil is very rarely actually bought from the same person/government/country/etc. that excavated it. There are many middle men who buy and sell oil and that is what really drives the price up.

The truth is, we are all about profit. And the other truth is that oil companies, while seeing big profits, are also spending record amounts these days in investments, on machinery...all that it takes to find the oil, excavate it, and get it ready for market. The oil companies aren't the bad guys, the ingorant and whiny Americans who want something for nothing because they are "owed" it are the bad guys.

Seriously, drilling in Alaska? The environmentalists show you pictures of cute little polar bears and baby seals splashing and playing around and then tell you that drilling for oil will cause them to go extinct via painful and horrible deaths. The truth? The drilling would be in the tundra where very few animals actually call home. There's really not much there other than grasses. Not to mention that these same environmentalists and AR groups fought the building of the Alyeska Pipeline claiming that Caribou would be forced to go extinct. Uhhh...anyone actually ever been to AK? There are very high numbers of Caribou and Moose and Elk. Seems that pipeline didn't kill anything off (not to mention that the pipeline was built off the ground in many areas for the sole purpose of allowing the passage and grazing of these animals).

We have allowed the extremist environmentalists and AR groups to run this country and now we are paying the price. Literally. If you are really interested in doing something, then let our leaders know that we, the people, are claiming this country back and we want to be heard and we want to be self-reliant and not have to depend on others to take care of us.

 

[Miakoda]

Umm... offshore drilling would be able to help us, had it been started about 10 years ago. It'll take a long time for a site to be chosen, a rig to be designed and constructed, and finally put into service and ramp up to full production. By that point, it's pointless. All this is is political posturing. We need to dump all our resources into renewable sources, such as biodiesel from algae and bacteria, better ways to produce electricity (nuclear is a good option... but too many people think it's dangerous due to Chernobyl. Chernobyl was an accident caused by gross mismanagement of a inferior facility.) A combination of wind and solar power to supplement the power grid at this stage is a great start, or even generators that harness the motion of the waves at sea. Local communities can explore different options based on what's available to them.

How is it pointless? Had we started doing it 5 years ago (which by the way is the projected number of years before we see a major differnce...not 10), we wouldn't be in this situation.

And if we don't start it now, can you honestly imagine where we'll be in 5 years? My guess is paying $10 or more per gallon of gasoline. Because the truth is, technology will still not provide us with a truly workable alternative.

Great ideas that bombed:

Hydrogen fueled cars: Seriously? Anyone remember the Hindenburg?
Electric cars: Great if your work is like 5 miles away. Horrible if you must travel over 80 miles round-trip like my husband (who used to travel much more).
Ethanol fueled cars: We're seeing the world-wide devestation caused by this not-so-bright idea. Not to mention that ethanol actually releases it's own form of air pollution that will devestate the ozone layer (yes, it's a documented fact).
Bio-disiel: A good idea, but unless you live in lower California or in the wastelands of Texas (where the only stations that sell the stuff reside), then your SOL. Not to mention, that the price of Biodiesel is well over $8 a gallon (maybe over 9 at this point).

 

[Renee750il]

Comparing the Hindenberg disaster to modern hydrogen fuel cells is a common fallacy
http://www.vidicom-tv.com/tohiburg.htm

A couple of informative links:
http://www.pbs.org/saf/1403/teaching/teaching4.htm
http://www.fire.state.mn.us/Response/FuelCellHydrogenFuelVehicleSafety.pdf

 

[BuckarooT35]

Don't nobody shoot me for saying this...but no matter what happens now, I will not vote for a Hallmark-talking presumptive nominee Obama. Something is not right about him and if he gets voted in as a President and you were asked by someone who do not know who the President of your country is and you said "Barack Hussein Obama", what do you think the other person will think? -- you live in some Muslim country??

Gas prices? the next elected President will have to wear that too...
Bush -- at least he tried his best to keep the country avoid another 9/11...
John McCain...sometimes we do not have a choice but to vote him in. I have been a Democrat for quite a long time now, but this time I do not think I am ready to vote for a Democrat and there is no better choice at the moment. I would have like Romney but he's gone...

 

[xpaeanx]

As long as they know where the oil is they should go for it... coming up with other ways to power vehicles/equipment is the way to go... but let's get real. It's going to take more than 5-10 more years to have the technology created, brought mainstream, and in everyone's home/company. American oil rigs are pretty safe, and like I said if they already know where it is then go for it. Would you rather a beautiful beach and paying $10 at the pump, having to move into a crowded city because the cost of driving is too high (which let's face it... for most of us that means the dogs are gunna have to go) and having to work every second just to survive so you don't get to go to the beach. I can hardly afford rent now... If I had to find a place in the city... forget it. closet sized studio in harlem, no pets, is all I would be able to afford. I would be miserable...

until another sorce of power for vehicles is created, and can be made affordable... we NEED oil!

 

[Renee750il]

The technology is HERE.

GM and BMW have had hydrogen fuel celled cars for over 20 years. The BMWs are on the roads in Europe, and I understand there is already the skeleton of a distribution system begun in CA.

We HAVE the technology. Have had it for a long time. It's the distribution of the fuel that's been blocked.

Screw throwing good money after bad on fossil fuels. Build the frickin' infrastructure to make the SAFE, cheaply produced, renewable and non polluting fuels we already have available to the public.

 

[Miakoda]

until another sorce of power for vehicles is created, and can be made affordable... we NEED oil!

Exactly!

And right now we're just talking about gasoline for our cars, but how many people are going to be forced to go without heat for their homes this winter due to the outrageous prices?

 

[Nechochwen]

First off, everyone needs to get off the mindset that we can just replace oil with one thing and go about our day. We're going to have to use multiple sources of energy to power our transportation. The biggest hurdle we face is not coming up with other sources of fuel, but a means to distribute them.

How is it pointless? Had we started doing it 5 years ago (which by the way is the projected number of years before we see a major differnce...not 10), we wouldn't be in this situation. Which means that at the very least, we'll have another 5 years of rising gas prices. Going back and changing things would be nice, but seeing as we can't, we have to come up with other ways to get away from oil.

And if we don't start it now, can you honestly imagine where we'll be in 5 years? My guess is paying $10 or more per gallon of gasoline. Because the truth is, technology will still not provide us with a truly workable alternative.

Great ideas that bombed:

Hydrogen fueled cars: Seriously? Anyone remember the Hindenburg?
Electric cars: Great if your work is like 5 miles away. Horrible if you must travel over 80 miles round-trip like my husband (who used to travel much more).
Ethanol fueled cars: We're seeing the world-wide devestation caused by this not-so-bright idea. Not to mention that ethanol actually releases it's own form of air pollution that will devestate the ozone layer (yes, it's a documented fact).
Bio-disiel: A good idea, but unless you live in lower California or in the wastelands of Texas (where the only stations that sell the stuff reside), then your SOL. Not to mention, that the price of Biodiesel is well over $8 a gallon (maybe over 9 at this point).

Hydrogen: Like the Hindenburg? That's a pretty horrible analogy. The only problem with these is that the hydrogen has to be created, most likely from electrolysis, which requires just as much energy to be put into it to get the hydrogen as we get from burning it.
Electric cars are fine. They'll be much much better once current battery technology improves, but currently we can get 200 miles out of an electric sports car. That's pretty **** good, and it's only going to get better. The only hurdle here is the time it takes to recharge the batteries.
Ethanol: Brazil is using Ethanol as it's main fuel source. The reason it works for them is because they can use the energy rich sugarcane plant to make ethanol, were as in the US we have to use much poorer sources of energy like switch grass, corn leftovers, etc.
Bio-diesel will work, but only in the short term. Not everyone can run their cars on veggie oil.

As long as they know where the oil is they should go for it... coming up with other ways to power vehicles/equipment is the way to go... but let's get real. It's going to take more than 5-10 more years to have the technology created, brought mainstream, and in everyone's home/company. American oil rigs are pretty safe, and like I said if they already know where it is then go for it. Would you rather a beautiful beach and paying $10 at the pump, having to move into a crowded city because the cost of driving is too high (which let's face it... for most of us that means the dogs are gunna have to go) and having to work every second just to survive so you don't get to go to the beach. I can hardly afford rent now... If I had to find a place in the city... forget it. closet sized studio in harlem, no pets, is all I would be able to afford. I would be miserable...

until another sorce of power for vehicles is created, and can be made affordable... we NEED oil!

see below quote.

The technology is HERE.

GM and BMW have had hydrogen fuel celled cars for over 20 years. The BMWs are on the roads in Europe, and I understand there is already the skeleton of a distribution system begun in CA.

We HAVE the technology. Have had it for a long time. It's the distribution of the fuel that's been blocked.

Screw throwing good money after bad on fossil fuels. Build the frickin' infrastructure to make the SAFE, cheaply produced, renewable and non polluting fuels we already have available to the public.

In short, we need to pick some technologies (electric being the most promising) and build the infrastructure to support them.

 

[xpaeanx]

In short, we need to pick some technologies (electric being the most promising) and build the infrastructure to support them.

building the "infrastucture" is part of the creating process. The next step is making it affordable to everyone, and the last step is when everyone has switched over to it.

How long do you think that will take? because it's not going to be done by next christmas!

and what about the other applications of oil? what about people's homes?

 

[Chewbecca]

Don't nobody shoot me for saying this...but no matter what happens now, I will not vote for a Hallmark-talking presumptive nominee Obama. Something is not right about him and if he gets voted in as a President and you were asked by someone who do not know who the President of your country is and you said "Barack Hussein Obama", what do you think the other person will think? -- you live in some Muslim country??

Gas prices? the next elected President will have to wear that too...
Bush -- at least he tried his best to keep the country avoid another 9/11...
John McCain...sometimes we do not have a choice but to vote him in. I have been a Democrat for quite a long time now, but this time I do not think I am ready to vote for a Democrat and there is no better choice at the moment. I would have like Romney but he's gone...

See, this is why I probably won't be voting for presidency this coming term.
I don't like who's running, and I will NOT vote for one just because "there is no better choice".

yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone can say what they want. "Then don't bitch when the country goes to crap"-or various other ways of saying that.
But I will bitch. Hell, I'm bitching now.
I don't like who's running and I won't be made to feel like I HAVE TO vote or I won't make a difference.
My little option to vote is going to make just as much of a statement if I choose NOT to vote.
People here can vote for what they believe in, and just the same, people here can NOT vote for what they believe in, imo.

 

[Renee750il]

First off, everyone needs to get off the mindset that we can just replace oil with one thing and go about our day. We're going to have to use multiple sources of energy to power our transportation. The biggest hurdle we face is not coming up with other sources of fuel, but a means to distribute them.


Hydrogen: Like the Hindenburg? That's a pretty horrible analogy. The only problem with these is that the hydrogen has to be created, most likely from electrolysis, which requires just as much energy to be put into it to get the hydrogen as we get from burning it.

Electric cars are fine. They'll be much much better once current battery technology improves, but currently we can get 200 miles out of an electric sports car. That's pretty **** good, and it's only going to get better. The only hurdle here is the time it takes to recharge the batteries.

Ethanol: Brazil is using Ethanol as it's main fuel source. The reason it works for them is because they can use the energy rich sugarcane plant to make ethanol, were as in the US we have to use much poorer sources of energy like switch grass, corn leftovers, etc.

Bio-diesel will work, but only in the short term. Not everyone can run their cars on veggie oil.




see below quote.


In short, we need to pick some technologies (electric being the most promising) and build the infrastructure to support them.

Absolutely.

See my earlier post about the Hindenberg and hydrogen fuel cells

Also - and I WISH I had ordered the DVD when I watched it, I watched an EXCELLENT documentary on hydrogen based energy sources a couple of years ago on one of the science channels - or possibly PBS. There are people already using solar energy to cheaply, easily and SAFELY produce it in a useable form. There's even a solar collection material that can be produced in a flexible fabric type roll, is relatively cheap compared to our old solar collection panels, more efficient, and will still work if it's mangled, folded, cut, torn, etc.

The problem with this? It's cheap, it's not difficult, it's safe, and pretty much anyone can do it . . . which leaves the big energy corporations hung out to dry . . .


The other hurdle to vehicles powered by electricity is the cost - monetarily and in pollution - of producing the electricity to power these vehicles . . . as well as the huge footprint producing the vehicles themselves has. Sorry, I just don't see them as a practical, long term solution. At least not as they are now.

building the "infrastucture" is part of the creating process. The next step is making it affordable to everyone, and the last step is when everyone has switched over to it.

How long do you think that will take? because it's not going to be done by next christmas!

and what about the other applications of oil? what about people's homes?

No, it's not going to happen by next Christmas, but we've seen this coming for oh, how many decades now? Guess it's time to suck it up and pay the piper for the shortsightedness of previous generations . . . . kind of like this crushing national debt we're running up right now will come due for clean up in the next generation or two.

See, this is why I probably won't be voting for presidency this coming term.
I don't like who's running, and I will NOT vote for one just because "there is no better choice".

yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone can say what they want. "Then don't bitch when the country goes to crap"-or various other ways of saying that.
But I will bitch. Hell, I'm bitching now.
I don't like who's running and I won't be made to feel like I HAVE TO vote or I won't make a difference.
My little option to vote is going to make just as much of a statement if I choose NOT to vote.
People here can vote for what they believe in, and just the same, people here can NOT vote for what they believe in, imo.

You know, Becca . . . . that could work . . . IF . . . IF all of us who are pissed as hell over the kind of sleazy politicians and liars we're supposed to accept as candidates ACTIVELY did not vote.

Not just not going to the polls.

We go to the polls, we sign up to vote, we go to the machines. WE MAKE NO MARK ON THE BALLOT for the Presidential race, and hit the finished voting button. Let them KNOW we are refusing to vote for them . . . not just that we're too lazy or apathetic to go to the polls.

Not going at all doesn't send any forceful message.

 

[BuckarooT35]

See, this is why I probably won't be voting for presidency this coming term.
I don't like who's running, and I will NOT vote for one just because "there is no better choice".

yeah, yeah, yeah. Everyone can say what they want. "Then don't bitch when the country goes to crap"-or various other ways of saying that.
But I will bitch. Hell, I'm bitching now.
I don't like who's running and I won't be made to feel like I HAVE TO vote or I won't make a difference.
My little option to vote is going to make just as much of a statement if I choose NOT to vote.
People here can vote for what they believe in, and just the same, people here can NOT vote for what they believe in, imo.

If you are not going to vote and someone else voted in your place, you have no right to complain about what will happen to this country. It is just is. I heard in the news this morning that "some", "many" or "candidates" utilizes the illegal immigrants to vote for those that did not. How they able to do it, I am not going to make a presumption either. If you go to the polling booth, at least you established your presence and your name is crossed off the list as one that voted. Do you get this idea? Or this is not the way elections are conducted in this country?

Where I came from (Australia) we are required to vote. During the Federal election, I flew to my nearest polling booth (in Chicago, Illinois). Whether I put in any vote or not, no one will know...but at least my name was registered as one of those who voted.

Getting off my soapbox now....