Why would you?

[Danefied]

Have you ever met an APBT being attacked by another dog?

Um, not all, but A LOT, are NOT going to go out of their way to avoid that conflict. That is almost a promise. Almost.

I've never met a APBT over 100 pounds

My issue is not whether or not you need "backup". My issue is the dog's size being the criteria for whether you need it or not.
Oh, and being told I shouldn't own the dogs b/c I don't use backup on my 100+ pound dogs.

I agree with Linds, know your dog.
And don't tell me I'm irresponsible because my TDI certified dog, who also happens to be big, doesn't wear a prong.

 

[darkchild16]

Have you ever met an APBT being attacked by another dog?

Um, not all, but A LOT, are NOT going to go out of their way to avoid that conflict. That is almost a promise. Almost.

Yep. Heck my shepherd mix and beagle mix won't back down. Yes he is offleash in a SAFE place. I.E. Woods that NO ONE goes in. EVER.

 

[Chewbecca]

Sorry, guys, I didn't come into this thread to argue.
I just wanted to state why I, personally, use back up.
I stick by my original statement that I don't tell anyone what to do with their dogs.
As long as their dogs don't bother mine on walks, I don't care.

 

[noludoru]

It's a common sense thing, Breeze.

Sometimes common sense is not so common.

I am never so certain of my control over my environment that I put him in harnesses, collars, and leashes that I know wont hold him if he were to explode. The amount of training doesn't matter to me - that works until you have an emergency.

But. . . I also am fully aware my 40lb dog can snap chains on a 1-1/4 inch collar if given the impetus to.

 

[Miakoda]

I have personally tested the plastic buckle on a store-bought collar obtained from Petsmart. It was one for a "large" dog and I had put it on my Shar Pe/Cane Corso when has about 10 months old (he was growing so fast and his other collar didn't fit and I needed one pronto!). Well, it took one good sudden pull of him going after a squirrel on a walk and the buckle broke. One of the sides that you insert into the "female" side (I guess you could call it) broke off enabling it to come undone. After chasing down a 100 lb 10-month-old puppy, I swore off plastic-buckle collars.

Alas, I was not done with the experience. When I went to pick up a rescue "pit bull", she came to me from her temp foster with a collar with plastic buckle. That same day in the parking lot of a Walgreens, the same exact thing broke on the buckle and off she went....chasing a loud truck.

I wouldn't touch a plastic buckle collar. But then again, I pretty much won't touch any collar or leash sold at Petsmart or Petco or most pet supply stores. (My pet supply store carries Hamilton products and I've yet to have a problem with theirs. I currently get nylon collars from stillwater kennels.)

 

[*blackrose]

The Basset/Lab foster we had awhile back had a cheap plastic buckle collar. He was on a flexi lead in our yard and just hit the end like a normal dog would...and the buckle broke. And this was a 35 pound dog. I can just imagine if we had been out in public when that happened, in traffic. It would have ended badly. Switched him over to one of Chloe's old rolled leather collars and didn't have a problem.

I don't trust cheap, flimsy collars for nothing. Chloe wears a collar with a plastic buckle, but it is a Lupine product and they well made (IMO).

It isn't plastic buckle or not plastic buckle...it is people picking up a cheap collar (that you can TELL is flimsy) and then expecting it to hold their dog. Or worse yet, people buying a mediocre collar when they know their dog has leash/whatever problems.

 

[SpringerLover]

I don't use backups on my dogs. Ever. I used to walk both dogs on martingales for safety reasons but I don't anymore. Neither dog feels leash pressure and keeps going (for the most part, there are gaps in our training, haha). I hate big/bulky equipment so they're walked on the smallest collar possible and the lightest leash possible. I hate weighing their necks down.

 

[Xandra]

I had a plastic buckle for our late boxer that was so old that the buckle just slid undone, but I've never had one break.

Roman is walked in a maybe 3/4" leather collar (don't use it much anymore because it's really stretched out) or a ~1 1/2" padded nylon collar (it's weird lol) both with metal buckles. I've walked him in bailing twine nooses and lead rope nooses as well.

He's about 90 lbs, I've never walked him with a back up collar. I've never had a collar break on me, never really come close. He's never on a leash long enough to get any momentum. I really can't see him generating enough force in the space that he has to break his collar or lead and I can pull him out of a fight no problem.

*shrugs* I dunno, I never knew people used backup collars unless they had an unruly dog. Using two collars at a time as a routine precaution is a new one for me.

 

[Danefied]

It's a common sense thing, Breeze.

Sometimes common sense is not so common.

I am never so certain of my control over my environment that I put him in harnesses, collars, and leashes that I know wont hold him if he were to explode. The amount of training doesn't matter to me - that works until you have an emergency.

But. . . I also am fully aware my 40lb dog can snap chains on a 1-1/4 inch collar if given the impetus to.

Isn't the point of training for it to work especially when you have an emergency like a collar being broken or slipped, or owner tripping over their own two feet and dropping the leash? Or an emergency situation where the dog isn't on leash (I don't know about anyone else, but mine don't wear collars and leashes 24/7.)

Maybe I'm just lucky, but in nearly 40 years of owning dogs, including rescuing and fostering, I have yet to have a dog - who had a relationship with me, not understand, and respond to an emergency tone in my voice.
I can sit here and list about 10 different recent events where equipment would not have done me ANY good, but training saved my and my dogs butts. Shoot, most of those instances the dogs weren't even wearing any equipment.

Obviously, I'm not going to set my dog up to fail, or the equipment, but geez, what's the point of training if you can't trust it to work when you need it the most?!

Is training 100% reliable? Of course not, but I trust my dogs and their training more than I trust equipment.

 

[GipsyQueen]

We don't use a backup on Gipsy either. She walks off leash 90% of the time anyways though, so there really isn't a point. We don't have leash laws in my town - everyone walks their dog off leash.

 

[Meatos]

Isn't the point of training for it to work especially when you have an emergency like a collar being broken or slipped, or owner tripping over their own two feet and dropping the leash? Or an emergency situation where the dog isn't on leash (I don't know about anyone else, but mine don't wear collars and leashes 24/7.)

Maybe I'm just lucky, but in nearly 40 years of owning dogs, including rescuing and fostering, I have yet to have a dog - who had a relationship with me, not understand, and respond to an emergency tone in my voice.
I can sit here and list about 10 different recent events where equipment would not have done me ANY good, but training saved my and my dogs butts. Shoot, most of those instances the dogs weren't even wearing any equipment.

Obviously, I'm not going to set my dog up to fail, or the equipment, but geez, what's the point of training if you can't trust it to work when you need it the most?!

Is training 100% reliable? Of course not, but I trust my dogs and their training more than I trust equipment.

Exactly this.

And darkchild16 - a dog of ANY size can slip out of ANY collar, regardless if the fittings are plastic or metal. What's your suggestion for that?

My point is that your claim that all dogs over 100lbs should not be on collars with plastic buckles is unrealistic and insulting. Like Danefied states, the point of training is so that it works for you in an emergency. If your dogs aren't trained to this point, then good luck with your prongs.

 

[Lilavati]

Exactly this.

And darkchild16 - a dog of ANY size can slip out of ANY collar, regardless if the fittings are plastic or metal. What's your suggestion for that?

My point is that your claim that all dogs over 100lbs should not be on collars with plastic buckles is unrealistic and insulting. Like Danefied states, the point of training is so that it works for you in an emergency. If your dogs aren't trained to this point, then good luck with your prongs.

No matter how well-trained, a dog can lunge or there can be some crisis or emergency where the collar needs to hold. I agree with the others . . . for tags, that's one thing. But I wouldn't trust a plastic buckle to hold Sarama at 42 lbs, let alone a large dog. And even if Sarama had perfect walking manners (which I confess she doesn't) that doesn't mean that something unforeseen isn't going to happen that will require holding onto that collar for dear life. A squirrel leaps out under her feet and darts into traffic. Another dog charges out and attacks, and I need to hold her collar while holding off the other dog with my other hand (this has actually happened). In fact, that's why even her "tag collar" is leather and buckled. I might need to grab it for some reason and that reason might well be life or death.

Same reason Docket, the notorious collar-slipper, has a collar that doesn't have much give.

 

[Dekka]

Just curious why are people blaming plastic buckles? I mean I get blaming cheap, poorly made buckles. But on some high end stuff they are very secure. I saw buckles that were stress tested to with stand 1500 pounds......

I mean I only have JRTs and I Have had collars break.

Though to be fair it wasn't a training issue. It was hyped up JRTs at a race day.

 

[Chewbecca]

I have walking harness that was for Ella made by CdPits.
This harness uses plastic quick release buckles that are being complained about in this thread.

That harness is one of the most well-built pieces of dog equipment I have ever owned. Granted, there a couple plastic buckles holding it together where it snaps shut, and perhaps harnesses are different in the regard that the weight is distributed possibly more evenly as not to stress just one buckle, but I trust that harness to hold.

But I'd still walk my dogs in back up. Imo, it's not enough to trust just ONE piece of equipment. Even if I trust my leash and my collar or harness, I still use back up. For me, personally.


I might have missed it but I don't know where in this thread DarkChild is saying that EVERYONE with a dog 100 lbs or more MUST use a prong collar as a back up?
I read that she uses one, but maybe I missed where she said that THAT is the only back up folks with 100 lbs or more dogs should use.

If you choose to use back up, great. You've obviously experienced something that makes you feel you need back up, or, like me, not only have you experienced where you need back up, but you've been TOLD by the shelter you adopted your dog from you SHOULD use back up.
If you don't use back up, great. You apparently know your dogs well enough to be able to predict how they'll react to an environment you don't control.
And that is your business.
As long as you aren't abusing your dogs, and your dogs aren't bothering mine, I, personally, don't care what you do.
Sorry, not to sound heartless, but I'm not trying to tell other folks what to do with their dogs.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

I don't use plastic buckles cause they're rarely as cute as metal buckles or martingales and they look cheap.

I do however not worry as much about equipment for my trained dogs as many obsess over.

Then again my dogs are all well under 100 lbs.

 

[Danefied]

I might have missed it but I don't know where in this thread DarkChild is saying that EVERYONE with a dog 100 lbs or more MUST use a prong collar as a back up?
I read that she uses one, but maybe I missed where she said that THAT is the only back up folks with 100 lbs or more dogs should use.

If you own a dog you cant pick up or easily move if something GOD forbid happened you should have two ways. One a bit more convincing then the other. Like we have a leather collar or soon a Collarmania collar and a prong because if some other dog attacks mine I want a peice of equipement that I can use to MAKE SURE i can get them away. Or god forbid something triggers something I have control.
Sorry but to me if you have that big a dog you must be proactive or dont own it. End of story.

Emphasis mine.
I then said I am proactive, but apparently "well trained" doesn't count.

The amount of training doesn't matter to me - that works until you have an emergency.

No matter how well-trained, a dog can lunge or there can be some crisis or emergency where the collar needs to hold. I agree with the others . . . for tags, that's one thing. But I wouldn't trust a plastic buckle to hold Sarama at 42 lbs, let alone a large dog. And even if Sarama had perfect walking manners (which I confess she doesn't) that doesn't mean that something unforeseen isn't going to happen that will require holding onto that collar for dear life. A squirrel leaps out under her feet and darts into traffic. Another dog charges out and attacks, and I need to hold her collar while holding off the other dog with my other hand (this has actually happened).

I think we're arguing two different points here (or three or four).

The one and only time I've had a collar pop off, was when that was exactly what I wanted it to do. My guys were playing and someone got a tooth caught, the collar twisted and popped off - Thank goodness it did!!

The reality is, my dogs are off leash far more than they're on. We live on acreage and don't have a fenced yard (nor do we have a road anywhere near us - driveway is a mile long at the end of a dirt road). I regularly call the dogs off chasing deer and coyotes. Cats and squirrells are every day training drills.
I may not have a great heel on my future obedience partner, but if I say "come" as he's running the oposite direction from me, he will slam on the brakes, spin and come.
My dogs may be over 100 pounds, but they are no more likely to hurt anyone (dog or human) than a smaller dog.
Last fight we had, it was an intact male who wandered on to our property with an intact bitch. He attacked our mutt dog, the commotion brought the danes running, and in about half a second, there were 6 dogs scrapping, none of them on leash. I got 4 dogs to back off with nothing but my voice - granted my panicked shrill LOUD voice, but I promise, there was no grabbing anyone in that melee.
At this point the intruders decided to make a break for it and ran off. I think its significant that two lab sized dogs were able to walk away from a fight with two danes and two large mutts. My danes don't arbitrarily hurt other dogs, they defend us if needed but they have good bite inhibition and stable temperaments.
I let mine chase the other dogs off and then recalled all four of them from 200 yards. Now, not that big of a feat for those who know danes, as most danes have about a 300 yard invisible umbilical cord with their owners, and won't stray beyond that anyway. But for the mutt dogs, their recall is something I'm quite proud of and confident in.

Our dogs are trained well becasue we ARE responsible and their lives depend on them trusting us and responding to emergency commands.
I don't see where my choice of equipment weighs in here at all.

If we're out in public, my guys are usually on chain martis or flat "dress" collars. I know my dogs and I know that should an emergency happen, they WILL listen. I don't think this makes me irresponsible and I resent the implication that I don't deserve to own them becasue I don't use back up equipment.
I also know that equipment isn't going to do me any good when the toddling baby falls on the dog lying down at my side at a tennis match. Equipment isn't going to do me any good when the weirdo guy goes from petting my dog's head to sticking his hands in her mouth to "check her teeth". And equipment isn't going to do me any good when the alzheimer's patient on a therapy visit decides to pinch the dog's flank 'till he yelps. Sorry, but for my needs, I have to rely on more than equipment.

Please lets not make general blanket statements about dog owners based on the size of their dogs or their choice of equipment.

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

We can't use leashes in Schutzhund, Flyball, Agility, Obedience, or Rally. All of these sports are done with dogs around, people around, sometimes cats, sometimes squirrels, other toys, and so on and so forth. A fight, a challenge, and a denial of recall can/will be cause for excusal.

So I have to agree, we have no choice but to rely on a lot more than equiptment. If my dog can't handle a simple walk on a piece of string and have a strong recall in high distraction, we're screwed.

That said many dogs are task oriented and if there is no task on a walk all the training in the world can go by the way side. You just have to know your dog and what they can and cannot handle.

 

[Chewbecca]

I don't use plastic buckles cause they're rarely as cute as metal buckles or martingales and they look cheap.

I do however not worry as much about equipment for my trained dogs as many obsess over.

Then again my dogs are all well under 100 lbs.

I don't care what kind of dog I have, well trained or a hellion on lead (which I've never had a hellion on lead), or what breed of dog I have (whether it's an APBT or a chihuahua), I'll always use back up.
But, again, that's my personal preference for my dogs.

A back up could be, what I use currently, a sense-ible harness and a collar. A small leather piece with two snaps on it, one to connect to a leash, the other to the collar.
It's really not as much as it sounds. And it surely doesn't weigh a lot.

 

[AgilityPup]

In my opinion, it's all about quality. With Bella, she was probably close to 100lbs and reactive, and I'd had her on collars that were both plastic, metal, and non-buckle collars. That said, she only ever snapped one collar, AT MY HOUSE, while playing. It was a shitty quality plastic buckle. That said, she did pull a D ring apart or two.

I feel like it's all about quality, but it's also about the owners of dogs to look for the proper quality. After the D ring incident, I was VERY cautious about all of the hardware on my collars/harnesses/etc..

So I don't feel like it's right to say that no dog that big should ever be on a buckle collar - it's up to the owners to find the collars that can hold their dogs. I just can't stand to sterotype all large breeds into a "NO BUCKLE COLLARS" group, when it's all about how smart the owner is.

ETA: And I just remembered that that one buckle she broke that was plastic was on her LEASH. A handsfree leash. She never wore the collar that came with that leash because I didn't trust the buckle. (Leashes and collars given to us when we started our first obedience class).

 

[AdrianneIsabel]

Meh, I can barely find a collar and a leash when we actually go for walks. My dogs train in flat collars, fur savers and totally naked most of the time. Generally all our exercise is off lead and that is 3 nights a week and literally all day saturday and sunday. That leaves 2 nights a week for a walk and we're lucky to get one in, when that night shows up I just toss on whatever gear I have and head out.

I know every collar maker makes a back up lead and they have for a long time, so I'm sure it's a big seller for a reason. It's a wonderful tool and I don't doubt their advantage but I just haven't found myself in enough need nor cash flow.

I had a buckle collar break for Arnold once at agility on a tie out but after that he's always on a stillwater collar or his leather collar which hasn't failed me yet. As for leads, honestly, I haven't had an issue ever except for leads I voluntarily retire after to many beach trips. Still when tied out at flyball and at home I use horse lead clips. So I guess we all have our own precaution methods.