Why is it?

[sparks19]

I just don't understand how just a few words can offend to the point of hatred of the religion. YES there are some who take it too far but I don't see anything wrong with expressing my faith just as I am not offended if others want to express their faith to me. I really don't see the big deal.

If someone wants to tell me about their religion (of course without comparing it to mine) I will listen. it is something they are proud of. I would listen to them tell me about their talents even if I don't share the talent. I would listen to someone talk about their children even if I didn't like children.

 

[AndrewF]

So.. people need to abandon thier faith when talking to non-believers so as to not step on toes?

I suspect the person in Fran's example wouldn't even think she was stepping on someones toes and would be saying those words with nothing but the best of intentions.

But I think the point she's trying could also be illustrated like this:

If you're trying to adopt a child and I say The Great Mother will deliver you the child you were meant to have, when you were meant to have it, you might think to yourself 'No, God will'.

My words might not offend you and you might see the caring behind my words but some christians might not.

A better way to offer someone else comfort might just be to offer a more generic form of it that you know will be appreciated instead of one which reflects your own beliefs.

Some might ask why you would need to do this as they're your beliefs but by the same token, you might correct me on my beliefs if I attempt to give them a meaning in your life that is reserved for God.

Not sure I made myself clear, but hopefully I did

 

[nancy2394]

I just don't understand how just a few words can offend to the point of hatred of the religion. YES there are some who take it too far but I don't see anything wrong with expressing my faith just as I am not offended if others want to express their faith to me. I really don't see the big deal.

If someone wants to tell me about their religion (of course without comparing it to mine) I will listen. it is something they are proud of. I would listen to them tell me about their talents even if I don't share the talent. I would listen to someone talk about their children even if I didn't like children.

:hail: :hail: :hail:

 

[Denaluvscorgis]

I just don't understand how just a few words can offend to the point of hatred of the religion. YES there are some who take it too far but I don't see anything wrong with expressing my faith just as I am not offended if others want to express their faith to me. I really don't see the big deal.

If someone wants to tell me about their religion (of course without comparing it to mine) I will listen. it is something they are proud of. I would listen to them tell me about their talents even if I don't share the talent. I would listen to someone talk about their children even if I didn't like children.

Sparks..........for some people (and I'm not referring to anyone here) I think fear comes into play.

 

[Puckstop31]

I totally don't understand why Christians (again not all) feel the need to be so overt about their religion which to me is very personal.... Why ???

Simply to answer your question and nothing else...

The Lord commanded us to share our faith. The Great Commission.

Matthew 28:18-20

"And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: All authority (from GOD) has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go therefore and make disciples of people of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father (God), the Son (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit (GOD's inspiration), teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the end of the world."


I understand all the other points you make, but if we (Christians) did not try to share the Gospel, we would not be very good Christians.

Please note I am not trying to push anything here, just trying to answer your question.

 

[Fran27]

And this is exactly the cause of our problems Mix up people who think their goal is to share their faith, and people who are really sick of listening to other people sharing their faith, and it can get ugly.

Actually, I think that's probably my main issue and why all the God talks bother me - I'm just really sick that in every discussion, someone always ends up mentioning God, His will, or whatever else God-related. It's even worse when you're upset about something that happened and someone tells you it's God's will or something - when you don't believe, it's pretty much a slap in the face or a way of saying 'it doesn't matter'.

Please try to realize that the outlook religious and non-religious have about life is completely different. I think things happen because of our choices, out of luck, or bad luck, I don't believe in destiny nor that anyone is guiding us, or even less making decisions for us. I can't understand either how people can base their life on a book that was written so long ago and translated so many times that I can't believe it kept its original meaning in the first place - nor do I believe that there is any proof that all of that actually happened. I just can't. So, for me, when people talk about God, I consider it as nonsense. And when people use nonsense for arguments in a discussion, I usually get irritated and eventually just give up.

Again, I'm just talking about the way *I* see things. I wasn't raised in any kind of religion, and although I knew lots of religious people when I grew up, they never mentioned God. I grew up talking about things without God ever being mentioned, so now I just find it really irritating when God is mentioned about all the time when trying to have a discussion - even worse when it's about something I really care about and the only replies I get tell me about God. It just gets frustrating.

Hope I didn't offense anyone, just giving you my side of things... I really enjoy talking to people about their religion, learning how they see things etc, but when it's all the time, for me it's just too much.

And no, I don't think I'm missing on anything. I actually quite enjoy making my own opinions about things.

 

[tessa_s212]

I know the non-religious people would get it, lol.

I'm not meaning this in an offensive way at all, I just think the understanding of the problem is very much rooted in everyone's opinion about religion. I am not sure religious people would get it.

Even when I was a *complete* athiest and HATED the idea of a God, I was never offended by that second scenario, unless I *knew* that it was a person that generally likes to preach but is a pretty awful person themselves. But, when it was just a person with a belief in God that wished me well, I certainly never too offense to it.

With that said, I have come across my share of Christians that say that kind of comment to only push their religion.

So, unless I know that a person is a "bible thumper", I give them the benefit of the doubt and I do not get offended.

Now, I am just a unique christian in the way that I am not all that conservative compared to some of my friends at all. I certainly do not take every little word and sentence in the bible literally. I have friends that look at a sentence or phrase and preach it like you wouldn't believe, but never do they sit down to consider the other ways to interpret that phrase. It is always "my pastor says this".

I also don't appreciate other christians preaching to me and telling me that I'm a bad christian for things I do, say or think. Not because I don't think I could ever be wrong, but because most of the time they are on their high horse and think they are better. The best way to approach someone is not through preaching and lecturing.. but *communicating* with them in a way that shows that you care and respect them. But, honestly, it goes for ANY christian or non christian when its that way. You don't have to be christian to think you are better than others. And, you don't have to be a christian to push your thoughts on others either. I have come across my share of athiests that DO actually go around making sure they tell every Christian they see that their God does NOT exist and trying to make them believe it.

Yes, the Bible tells us as Christians to tell others His word. But telling others His word does NOTHING if you do not go about it in the right way. Does it make you a better person or a better Christian if you are out preaching and shoving His word? Some Christians honestly think that by at least trying, even if they aren't going about it in the right way(but many do not even realize this), that they are doing a service for God. But what they are really doing is pushing others further away from God. I do not preach, and I do not talk about God all that much. Lately I just have not been given the opportunity to share my faith. I certainly would be more than happy too. But, you CANNOT change others. You cannot force them to believe what you do, no matter how much you know for you it IS the truth. You must wait for THEM to open up THEIR hearts. You must wait until THEY are ready to change and listen. For some people that will never come.. but that is apart of life.

Too many christians get sucked into the line of thought that they must ALWAYS be preaching about God, that they MUST help and save others.. I have a friend that his dream is to travel to other countries and teach about God. He's always wanting to do more, to help save more, .. anything. What that friend doesn't realize is that you can do one heck of a lot as far as being an example and teacher right where you are. You don't have to travel over sees to other countries. You don't even have to travel at all. All you have to do is live your life to the best of your ability. Strive to be the best person you can be, be HAPPY, and just be there for others when THEY realize they might need some help and guidance. But, being a good teacher and example even isn't always about teaching.. sometimes it is about letting others teach you. I personally have a teacher that comes to me every now and then and asks for MY advice. Certainly I am young and I don't have all the answers, but it takes a humble, honest, and wisdom-hungry person to go to a younger person to ask for advice.

You will get further with others by just being a good person than you will if you are running your mouth.

And now I'm done.

 

[Fran27]

Great post Tessa.

Although I guess I should not have used the word 'offended'. 'irritated' is really more accurate as far as am I concerned.

 

[tessa_s212]

Thanks Fran.

As I was typing that thought and expressing my thoughts, though I say "my friend", and though he is still like this in some ways(he's learning though), I know that I'm also talking about how I used to be because of the influence of those friends. But, I'm a pretty grounded person. I was weak and easily influenced, but it was not long until I came right back down from that nonsense and looked at what I actually was beginning to think like and believe.

 

[sparks19]

Well just as everyone talks about things that are important to them and things that influence their decisions I will continue to talk about God.

It just has to big a part of who I am to never mention it. Especially when on a topic of morality and such things. GOD influences my morals so how can I talk about morals with out him?

people get sick of hearing about how they got their dog or are getting a dog from a bad breeder but it is important to us so we keep up the fight to try to get them to see. IT IS THE SAME THING

To me, while there is no "proof" of God's exsistence (except for when I can feel him and hear him and talk to him. not easy for someone without faith in God to understand how that could be true) there is also no proof that he does NOT exsist and that is good enough for me. If in the end it turns out I am wrong that doesn't matter to me. i will still not feel that I have wasted anything in believing in him. Even the theory of evolution doesn't mean God does not exsist. I am not basing my faith on a book written years ago. I am basing my faith on what I feel and hear when I was able to truly open myself up to the possibility.

And while I know it is your opinion Fran please don't call my faith nonsense. I do not call your beliefs nonsense. and that goes along the lines of doing unto others as they do unto you. if you would like me to respect your beliefs please do the same for me I know it wasn't what you meant but it comes across the wrong way to me. BUT I am not offended by it, i just think there could be a better word you could use

 

[Shalva]

And while I know it is your opinion Fran please don't call my faith nonsense. I do not call your beliefs nonsense. and that goes along the lines of doing unto others as they do unto you. if you would like me to respect your beliefs please do the same for me I know it wasn't what you meant but it comes across the wrong way to me. BUT I am not offended by it, i just think there could be a better word you could use

actually she did not Call your faith nonsense what she said was that it was nonsense to her..... a big difference.....
and to be honest as religious as I am I agree with her in many ways with regards to that.... when someone starts dragging god into a discussion my immediate reaction is that they don't have the facts so they have to go to God because there is no arguing with it.....

I don't believe that God is involved in little kids getting cancer and I don't believe that God cares if we get a promotion at work or not.... and when someone does attribute things to god that are really the doing of people. I do tune them out and walk away rolling my eyes....

I am a researcher, a scientist and while I do have faith, to me in many respects it is nonsense as well.....

but regardless Fran did not say your faith was nonsense it is just nonsense to her.
and that is where the arguments begin.....
s

 

[sparks19]

actually she did not Call your faith nonsense what she said was that it was nonsense to her..... a big difference.....
and to be honest as religious as I am I agree with her in many ways with regards to that.... when someone starts dragging god into a discussion my immediate reaction is that they don't have the facts so they have to go to God because there is no arguing with it.....

I don't believe that God is involved in little kids getting cancer and I don't believe that God cares if we get a promotion at work or not.... and when someone does attribute things to god that are really the doing of people. I do tune them out and walk away rolling my eyes....

I am a researcher, a scientist and while I do have faith, to me in many respects it is nonsense as well.....

but regardless Fran did not say your faith was nonsense it is just nonsense to her.
and that is where the arguments begin.....
s

No arguments here just discussion.

I don't think people should pray and say "let me get that promotion" But i DO think it is appropriate to pray that he give you strength to handle the outcome, whether it is to handle the new workload stress, or to be able to handle the rejection with humility.

while NO I don't think he give's kids cancer, I don't think it is wrong to pray to him ABOUT the cancer. There is nothing wrong with that and in such a hard time it often gives people solace to know they have someone to turn to and that if that child does not make it they know he will be in God's hands and he will not be afraid. Or to give the parents the strength to be brave for their child and for the strength to deal with whatever may happen. I truly believe there is NOTHING in this world more devestating than a parent outliving their child.

and how does bringing up God in my view of marriage and sex have to do with not having the facts. I have the facts on sex and marriage. But God influences my feelings towards those things so I am not going to abandon my beliefs just because someone might get a little P.O'd.

Again like I said, I am not that sensitive that someone else's beliefs bother me. I don't mind to hear others talk about it. it does not diminish my beliefs and I appreciate that they are able to discuss their religion. I am interested in what guides people's decisions and beliefs.

NO god does not control what we do. We have FREE WILL. he can't change the things I myself have caused, but it helps to know he is there to listen and comfort me when I need and when I have no where else to turn. he will always understand and he will always be there for me. I don't think that makes me uninformed or silly to believe that

 

[FoxyWench]

"Religious people are often labeled as holy rollers, bible thumpers, jesus freaks...etc. Why is it that no one labels non religious people?"

umm, unfortunatly this is NOT the case, overzealous relgious people are called those names, however all too many times I have been called devil worshiper byt all too many just because im pagan.

do i get offended when the subject of religion comes up? no so long as its discussed in a civilized matter that is respectufull and understanding that eveyrone belives how they wish too and it is none of ANYONES buisness to try and change those belifes...
however i DO have a problem when someone uses their religion to justify something theyve done.

i read the sex before marriage post and of course its one of the many that turned into an argument in which gods name was brought up.
some people refrain from sex due to their religion but to say that god invented marriage when he created adam and eve IS offensive to those who dont belive in god or belive in somehting other than that god and the story of adam and eve. sometimes it comes across as "you dont belive in my god, my god created that, so you have no right to participate"

MY experrience has unfortunatly been that of the ONLY relgions ive ever had a problem with are catholics and christians, they are the only ones who have rather forcefully tried to "save my soul"
now i take no real offence to "mabe you can come to my church and see what you think" or something similar, upon which my reply is a polite, no thank you im happy in my belifs and practices and leave it at that, unfortunatly ive yet to come across that responce, instead upon my no thank you im borraged with bible quotes and when that doesnt work its ended in "you will go to hell" or "you worship satan" this has come from both "the religious right" extreemists AND the regular not usually pushy people. even from people who go to church on the holidays to make face have done this to me!
ive NEVER had this problem with any other religions, i am lucky to have frineds of many religions and so with no religion, we all have our different belifs, some extreemly so, yet we get along and know where the line is...
but for some reason catholics and christians just dont seem to like the No thankyou answer!

Its all about crossing that line. god is fine in moderation. dont justify actions by quoting the bible and ill have no problem.
one can state their opinion civilally, if gods involved in that opinion fine. but dont base your entire reasoning and argument with people of different belife systems than yours on God, because if thats the only argument, the argument is lacking.

if that makes sense...
(im sooo not good at forming thought into complete sentences)

edit to add:
"and to be honest as religious as I am I agree with her in many ways with regards to that.... when someone starts dragging god into a discussion my immediate reaction is that they don't have the facts so they have to go to God because there is no arguing with it..... "
shalva you said that perfectly!!!

only id add that while they might actually have the facts, they instead cant get everyone to agree with them so they drag it as "well you should cause god said so" to try and force their position.

 

[sparks19]

I can't say I have ever been confronted by a christian that was forceful with me. As I said I have not always been a believer. I engaged in some VERY self destructive behaviour but I was never pushed or preached to by anyone. My Step brothers mom is Catholic and she has never preached to me, her parents are hard core Catholic and they have never preached to me. My husbands mother is VERY christian but NEVER EVER have I EVER heard her try to change someone.

there are bad eggs in every religion, race, creed... etc.

 

[tessa_s212]

I have not even picked up my bible since early September. A friend asked me to read a verse.. so, I opened the old thing up. I had it open to the page just sitting here for the longest time.. I looked down near the bottom of the page and the word "wisdom" jumped out at me. I read, and.. coincidentally enough, this is what it said:

"Words of the wise, spoken quietly, should be heard
Rather than the shout of a ruler of fools.
Wisdom is better than weapons of war;
But one sinner destroys much good."

And no, this is not meant to offend any non believers in anyway. Before you get offended that I quoted the bible, hear me out.

So, all you christians out there.. the bible DOES say to preach onto all nations. God wants His word to be heard, but in his very own book, t his is what He had to say. He wants people to know about Him, but he doesn't want you to shove it down their throats. And if you get alot of hateful comments, get alot of people that call you things such as a "bible thumper", take a look. Are you? Do you preach God's word in the way GOD wants you to?


I've been told and heard Christians say that you will be hated merely for your faith.

I don't believe it. There are people that will generalize and the second they know you are a christian may not respect you, but I have faith that the majority of people are not like that.

I don't think it is our faith that many people hate. They may hold the opinion that our faith is stupid, but I don't think that is what makes certain people hate Christians. I believe it is the closed mindedness, judgementalness, preachiness, hypocrosy and the holier than thou attitude that can come along with Christianity.

And honestly, I feel that many Christians use the excuse that "we'll be hated for our faith" to not learn, grow and change. They fool themselves into believing that they are in the right, and others don't have valid reasoning to not like the way they act. As long as they point the finger in a different direction, they don't have to realize and admit that they are not perfect and that even they have qualities about them that could use some changing.

I'm not trying to say that we as Christians cannot hold the opinions and beliefs that we do. I'm not even saying we don't have the right to talk about our God to others. But what I am saying is that we do not have the right to shove those opinions and beliefs down others' throats. You can be proud of who you are, what you believe and the choices that you make without becoming cocky and condescending.

And, no, I'm not trying to sound preachy or uppity right now.. I do realize that I am guilty of so many of the things I have pointed out in just the two posts I have made here on this thread. But, in my defense, I can honestly say that I am trying to work on it, and change me for the better. It is my goal to someday be a wonderful wrinkly old woman that loves herself, loves the world, and even perhaps a very small chunk of the world to love me.

 

[FoxyWench]

I don't think it is our faith that many people hate. They may hold the opinion that our faith is stupid, but I don't think that is what makes certain people hate Christians. I believe it is the closed mindedness, judgementalness, preachiness, hypocrosy and the holier than thou attitude that can come along with Christianity.

VERY WELL SAID!

 

[Dani]

People talking about their faith doesn't bother me, it has no reason to. I can't say I've ever been pressured, but I can see that it would bother me, as I'm quite content as an athiest/agnostic.

 

[Fran27]

Great post again Tessa

Sparks, Shalva explained it well. I mean, I'm sure that most of what I said is nonsense to you, too, and I'm not upset if it's what you think. It's probably quite normal.

 

[Dizzy]

On the other hand, there are those who subscribe to the notion that religion should not only be shared, but it should be spread to everyone as the only religion. This can also be tiresome as a good number of people here have run through the spectrum of religions and have come to their own beliefs based on their experiences. It's an insult to them to have someone then say that they're wrong in their beliefs.

Ab-so-lute-ly.

 

[sparks19]

Great post again Tessa

Sparks, Shalva explained it well. I mean, I'm sure that most of what I said is nonsense to you, too, and I'm not upset if it's what you think. It's probably quite normal.

It's really not. I haven't always been a believer so I know what it's like to not believe and I don't think it's nonsense at all. I've been there. I was very skeptical, I thought people who went to church but screwed up outside of church were hypocrites, I just believed all that stuff and I"m not even sure why. Probably because I didn't really know much.but I have changed. I am not suggesting that you should or anything like that but I'm just saying I have lived the other side of the spectrum so no I don't see it as nonsense.