Why Crop and/or Dock?

LabDad

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#1
Unless it's for the health and safety of a working dog I do not understand why breeders crop ears and dock tails. If you watch the Crufts dog show from England you will see the breeds as God originally made them, ears, tails and all.
I understand that the Boxer Association has now revised the breed standard to allow un-cropped ears for conformation shows.
If you don't think that cropped ears totally alters a dogs appearance, check out this comparison photo of Duke. The cropping was of course done electronically and he still has those fur flaps in place.


Just wondering what other people think.
 

RD

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#2
Cropping and docking is tradition in some breeds. Rottweilers, Boxers and Dobermans get on fine with tails, but they are docked because that enhances the look of the dog. The docking is not a major or very painful surgery, nor is cropping when it is done correctly. (I've seen puppies come home after being cropped and their biggest concern is the cup on their head, not their ears.)
Boxers were always allowed to be shown with natural ears. So are Dobermans. the standard states "ears are NORMALLY cropped" but it doesn't state that they must be. However, in these breeds, it is difficult to do anything in the ring with a natural-eared dog, so most breeders do crop.
 

smkie

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#3
i will never understand..cause Mary talks with her tail..THUMPTHUMP means either you are thinking in the right direction or someone special is here or i really really like you..and thumpthump can be a pleasant dream..and i am such a sucker for soft silky ears to feel between my fingers..to read their expression with..to laugh when they flip inside out..but that is just me and my opinion.
 
R

RedyreRottweilers

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#4
Certain breeds are docked for a variety of reasons. Rottweilers were originally docked to prevent injuries to their hocks. They were kept in the stalls much of the time with the stock they drove to market. The tails picked up the fecal material, with would collect into a large hard ball at the end of the tail. This would knock the dog's hocks, and cause wounds which got infected. Docking eliminated the problem.

Docking continued after it was not really necessary for the dog's job because it became an intrinsic part of the essence of type for this breed.

"Type" is what makes one breed different from another. Think of a Rottweiler in silhouette. Now think of a Rottweiler in silhouette with a tail....

Wait....is it a Rottweiler? Or a Bullmastiff? Or a Labrador Retriever?

The tail takes away from breed type.

Docking is in NO way cruel or painful for puppies. If you have not personally attended and assisted at dockings, you have no right to comment on it.

I prefer a docked breed, and that was ONE of the reasons I originally chose a Rottweiler. My dogs are house dogs, and I don't want tails clearing my coffee tables, bruising my legs, and getting their ends bloodied on door jambs or in crates.

If YOU don't want a docked or cropped breed, don't select one.

But leave us alone who have traditionally docked and cropped breeds.

All dog owners should wake up and realize that outlawing or restricting docking and cropping is one of the first ways the Animal Rights activists try to get their toehold in to begin eliminating dogs. If they have their way, there will be no domestic animals AT ALL, including all dogs and cats. They are well organized and funded, and they are INUNDATING us with every form of animal related legislation you can imagine, from breed specific laws, to outlawing certain breeds, to requiring spay/ neuter. They are marching on us, people, and one of their first toeholds is generally anti cropping or docking legislation.

Let us wake up and look at the entire picture instead of one little corner.

If ALL dog owners and lovers do not put their differences aside and unite, 30 years from now there will be few if any domestic animals in the US, and only the super rich will be able to afford them.
 
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#5
I personally don't see any reason for it at all. I like the look of boxers and dobes WITH the tails and ears. It's actually illegal to dock in two states in Australia, soon to be three.
 

RD

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#6
I agree with you, Redyre.
I've seen puppies being docked, and I honestly think that they are more stressed about being held by a stranger, away from their mother, than by getting their tails docked. Because of that I can't accept the "docking really hurts them" argument.
 

Athebeau

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#7
According to the American Veterinary Medical Association Cropping and Docking IS PAINFUL
In addition to the pain related to the actual amputation and resulting scar tissue, there’s a real possibility that dogs experience phantom pain – a phenomenon well-documented with humans who have lost a body part.
it is still considered amputation be it a pup or an adult dog.

Tail docking and other amputations have an undeniable affect on dogs. Back and hindquarter muscles are chronically tense. The dog with the full tail is much more relaxed.
The historic reasons for the amputations are often attributed to attempts at preventing injury in fighting or hunting dogs, reducing taxes based on a dog’s tail length, or even preventing rabies.
Pain factor
The World Small Animal Veterinary Association cites the possible formation of painful scar tissue, or neuromas, as one reason that tail docking should be made illegal, except for professionally diagnosed therapeutic reasons.
“The contraction or shrinking of the scar may effect a pull on the nerves and hence the dura that surrounds the spinal cord and brain,” she says. The dura is a tough membrane, part of the meninges, which encases and protects the brain and spinal cord.

Animals hold tension like people do, says Potts. “If you have a stiff neck or pain in a part of your body, does it make you cranky?” Animals are no different from us, she says. In her work on thousands of animals over many years, Potts has found that while lots of dogs may have tension patterns, you’re more likely to see them in dogs who have been docked or cropped.

Tails improve balance
Walk along a curb or balance beam with your arms crossed in front of you. Now do it with your arms free at your sides and using them for balance. Wasn’t that easier? Dogs use their tails in much the same way, to provide balance and stability when moving over difficult or rough terrain.

When dogs don’t have tails to provide a counterbalance and rudder for movement, something has to give.

“If you take away the ability to shift weight or compensate for balance displacement by use of the tail mechanism, then the forces that would otherwise be absorbed or counteracted through the tail need to be shifted elsewhere,” says Edge-Hughes. She speculates that the stress or pressure could then fall on the cruciate ligament or patella, hip, or hock joints, or even travel up the chain into the sacroiliac joints or spine, potentially causing or contributing to seemingly unrelated orthopedic injuries.

Cruciate disease and other orthopedic problems can have many contributing factors, and can occur in dogs both with tails and without tails. Yet, for dogs, who evolved to have tails, having them removed may add another cause of injury.

Edge-Hughes is also concerned about docked dogs who are unable to use tail wagging (with a tail of normal length and without scar tissue) to stretch and flex the dura, keeping it pliable. This could be a particular problem when a dog has a slow, progressive disc lesion, such as a bulging disc, which slowly compresses the dura and spinal cord over time. “The dura might become inflamed more easily if it is not as pliable. This may lead to a faster onset of neurological signs and symptoms that accompany disc lesions,” she explains.


An acupuncture map of the ear will show points that correspond with the entire body. In fact, there are over 200 acupuncture points on the ear – it is often described as “the meeting place of all the channels of the body.” In addition, the ear is part of the kidney meridian. When a dog’s ear is partially amputated, as with cropping, these points are removed, and scar tissue is created on the new edge of the ear. The removal of dewclaws creates a scar that may affect the Large Intestine meridian, while the Governing Vessel meridian ends on the tail.

Abbreviated communication
Dogs use both their tails and ears extensively for communication, with each other and with humans. Norwegian trainer Turid Rugaas describes many different positions for tails and ears in her work on “calming signals” of the dog, and how dogs use these parts to communicate.

Think for a moment about all of the positions floppy ears can take. The ears can be forward and the base held upright, or they can be soft and low against the head, even pinned back, tight to the head. Each subtly different position communicates something different, from aggression to fear, contentment to appeasement.

The tail, too, acts as a key communication device for dogs. Different types of tail wagging and carriage may indicate happiness, stress, anxiety, fear, or other emotions. Dogs without tails are limited in this type of communication, and have to rely on other signals, which may be more difficult for humans and other dogs to interpret.
 

Athebeau

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#8
Docking is in NO way cruel or painful for puppies. If you have not personally attended and assisted at dockings, you have no right to comment on it.
I worked at a Vet clinic too, and my feelings were completely different from yours. I thought it was cruel and very shallow of owners to have this done. So, I guess i have a right to comment on it as I assisted one of our Vets...the Vet no longer does this as she now feels its an unethical practice. What our poor dogs have to suffer for their owners vaniety...:(
 

Dizzy

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#10
I know a lady in work, many years ago, her mother had 2 litters of yorkies - the first docked.

She never forgave herself!! They were certainly NOT happy about it... Lots of little tails in a basket...

Next litter were left intact - quite an unusual sight back then apparently!!

No way would I remove anything from my animal except a tumour.
 

joce

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#11
I have seen so many amputation surgeries on dogs tails I think more breeds should be docked:p I look at it as a prevenative mroe than anyhting. Whats that little snip compared to all the pain if they break that tail jsut once? Every one else said what I needed to but its necessary. My boy would have broken his a long time ago. I guess this may be because we live out in the country but even in the city I would think doors and what not would be even worse.
 

Athebeau

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#12
Quote by RedyreRottweilers I prefer a docked breed, and that was ONE of the reasons I originally chose a Rottweiler. My dogs are house dogs, and I don't want tails clearing my coffee tables, bruising my legs, and getting their ends bloodied on door jambs or in crates.
Wow, funny all my dogs with natural tails (one being a Doberman) have never had any of these tramatic things happen. A trained dog with house manners does not sweep items off coffee tables, bruising legs:eek: , and people who slam their dogs tails in doors should not be allowed to own a dog...and if you can't get your dog into a crate or it's so nuerotic in a crate then it's a danger to itself then behavioral training should be implemented.

Qote by RedyreRottweilers All dog owners should wake up and realize that outlawing or restricting docking and cropping is one of the first ways the Animal Rights activists try to get their toehold in to begin eliminating dogs. If they have their way, there will be no domestic animals AT ALL, including all dogs and cats. They are well organized and funded, and they are INUNDATING us with every form of animal related legislation you can imagine, from breed specific laws, to outlawing certain breeds, to requiring spay/ neuter. They are marching on us, people, and one of their first toeholds is generally anti cropping or docking legislation.

Let us wake up and look at the entire picture instead of one little corner.

If ALL dog owners and lovers do not put their differences aside and unite, 30 years from now there will be few if any domestic animals in the US, and only the super rich will be able to afford them.
I wouldn't think outlawing cropping and docking is the first step in eliminating pets. It's already outlawed in England due to unnessesary cruelity to animals. I feel the same way about horses that had their tails docked for show purposes.

I adopted my Rottie already docked. I would have loved to have had her au natural, but, it was not my choice. My Doberman on the other hand, I just love his tail and the balance it gives him on the agility course...he can really get around anything and with great speed.
 

joce

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#13
Athebeau, I don't know why my accidently closing my dogs tail in the door should prevent me from ever owning a pet again but I think you should realize how many dogs do injure their tails. Yours may not,lucky for you,but other peoples do. My dogs are in and out of the house all day with me,in the woods,out in fields,around farm ecquiptment etc. Stuff happens and with breeds with these thin little tails why risk it? I know more labs than thin tailed dogs that have needed them taken off.
 

Dizzy

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#14
Of course a dog is 'at risk' from injuring it's tail. At JUST as much risk as injuring its foot, or leg, or muzzle, or eye...

Toddlers are at HUGE risk of injury - our precautions - keep an eye on them, and teach them better!

Do not tell me we crop/dock through love to prevent injury :)

For the record, i just watched a PRO docking video. The happy, cute music did not make me think it was any less horrific. My palms were actually sweaty and my hand was over my mouth... Horrible :(
 

joce

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#15
we do crop some little boys to prevent injury:p And children are watched much better than working/farm dogs who are expected to hold there own.
 

Sheba

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#16
I personally dont like cropping and docking. Doesnt it hurt the dog, even a little? And with the Duke thing, in the first pic, A yellow lab. In the cropped version, a twisted, small-eared great dane.
 
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#17
I can understand the tail docking, my friend's dog had broken it's tail and eventually had to have it docked as it didn't heal well at all. But the ears, no. I have seen so many horrible looking crop jobs on Pits and Dobes over the years that as far as I'm concerned, it should be outlawed, unless the dog has chronic ear infections and the vet thinking it might help. It's just not needed, and I think Pits look really bad with cropped ears, even when done "right".
 
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#18
Athebeau said:
I wouldn't think outlawing cropping and docking is the first step in eliminating pets. It's already outlawed in England due to unnessesary cruelity to animals. I feel the same way about horses that had their tails docked for show purposes.
Only cropping is illegal in England, docking is legal though. My Mini has been docked. I personally prefer docked dogs, as I've been around dogs with tails, and they wags their tails too much.
 
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#19
"I've been around dogs with tails, and they wags their tails too much."
Dear god will you listen to yourself!?!? I'm not even going to try and process that one.
I've lived on farms and in the country all my life. I've only ever seen ONE dog break its tail. And this on farms with thirty plus working dogs. Joce, you commented that some little boys are cut to prevent injury. Have you ever SEEN this done? The baby screams so loud its wonder it can keep breathing. Not painful, yeah right. I worked as a vet's assistant for a few years. I assisted in one docking, then never again. Just because they're only tiny doesn't mean they can't feel pain. I'll never agree with it and the sooner it's banned completely here the better. As for the comment that it a way for extremist animal rights people to stop people from having pets, get real.
 

BoxerLvr

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#20
My dogs are all docked and I enjoy them that way. They still have enough to wag and have even been caught chasing their nubbies from time to time. I see nothing wrong with docking.

All of mine are also cropped. A bad crop can ruin the look of a dog, which is why it is important to talk to other people and find a vet that can do a fantastic job. Their is mor to cropping than just slicing away, it is truely an artform. I will be the first to admit that the after care can be a pain in the butt, but IMO its worth it. My last girl to get cropped was up and running around playing an hour after her surgery, does that sound like she was in terrible pain, I think not.

I do believe it is a personal choice and if you choose not to crop/dock YOUR pet thats fine and I respect you for your feelings. However I think that we who chose to crop/dock deserve the same respect, it is our choice. Because our choice is different from yours does not make us wrong it simply means we choose to maintain the traditional look of our chosen breed.

I would have to agree with Redrye, that trying to ban cropping/docking is the first step in eliminating pets completely. They start with small steps, so once they have support for those what is everyone going to think when they try to slip in other legislation that will not allow us to keep pets.
 

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