why cant you feed cooked meat?
- Thread starter Puppy
- Start date
even broccoli contains less calcium (48mg/100g raw) than phosphorus (66mg/100g raw), and yogurt only contains a little bit more calcium than phosphorus (low fat 183mg/100g calcium and 144mg/100g phosphorus). 100g is just over 3.5 ounces.
i wouldn't rely on the calcium in the nupro alone, since the supplement itself contains ingredients high in phosphorus that need to be balaned, such as the liver, yeast and lecithin.
this is not something to be taken lightly, since a diet too high in unbalanced phosphorus is very hard on the kidneys and does cause damage in the long run.
i wouldn't rely on the calcium in the nupro alone, since the supplement itself contains ingredients high in phosphorus that need to be balaned, such as the liver, yeast and lecithin.
this is not something to be taken lightly, since a diet too high in unbalanced phosphorus is very hard on the kidneys and does cause damage in the long run.
Wow, I did not take into account the extra calcium needed. I do cook for my three once a week and mix it with the innova. However they do get yogurt 3 times a day because Brutus my most spoiled refuses to eat without it mixed in his food. Which you all know. But I do try to supplement with raw chicken or beef bones once a week. And of course Brutus also had the baby rabbit....I just give them what is in my freezer. This week they are having flounder, corn, garlic and apple, with yogurt as the piece de resistanze, added last of course. Are they getting enough calcium? Now I am worried.
sorry about coming back to this thread so late, but i had to run earlier so i wouldn't be late for obedience class.
"too much calcium" is really only a problem if you feed too much calcium-containing foods or excessively high amounts of bone with only little meat. for dogs a calcium/phosphorus ratio of between 1:1 to 2:1 is appropriate, with the lower end being better. that means that you want your diet to contain between 1 to 2 mg of calcium for every mg of phosphorus.
additionally, NRC nutrient guidelines call for 50mg of calcium and phosphorus per kg of body weight per day in an adult dog's diet, that would be 22.73mg per pound of body weight.
for my 30 pound dog that would be 682mg per day, with a minimum of 682mg calcium for a 1:1 ratio and a maximum of 1364mg for a 2:1 ratio.
here are a few examples of common cooked foods and their average calcium and phosphorus content per 100g:
skinless chicken breast, cooked: ca 13mg, ph 165mg
ground beef 70% lean, cooked: ca 37mg, ph 194mg
chicken liver, cooked: ca 11mg, ph 405 mg
cheddar cheese, generic: ca 721mg, ph 512mg
whole egg without shell, large, scrambled: ca 43mg, ph 104mg
oatmeal, cooked with water only: ca 52mg, ph 474mg
carrots, cooked, no salt added: ca 30mg, ph 30mg
green beans, cooked, no salt added: ca 44mg, ph 29mg
sweet potato, baked: ca 38mg, ph 54mg
white rice, long grain, cooked: ca 10mg, ph 43mg
brown rice, long grain, cooked: ca 10mg, ph 83mg
white potato with skin, baked: ca 15mg, ph 70mg
www.nutritiondata.com is an excellent tool to calculate average nutrient contents of foods and you can even combine different ingredients to analyze recipes. just make sure you pick raw ingredients if you calculate a raw recipe, and cooked ingredients if you are calculating a cooked recipe.
if you need a calcium supplement to balance out recipes, egg shell powder is an excellent, inexpensive way to go. just save your egg shells whenever you use eggs for cooking. wash them immediately and pull the thin membrane skin out. once you have collected a decent amount of shells, dry them in the oven at 300 degrees for 10 minutes to make them more brittle. then grind them to a fine powder in a coffee grinder or food processor. i mostly use a mortar and pestle these days, less mess and cleanup that way, but it takes a little longer. your egg shell powder supplement will be of especially good quality if you use organic free range eggs. one teaspoon contains about 1800mg of calcium.
if you don't use many eggs or are too lazy for this and would rather spend money than time., this product is very nice. i prefer it to other calcium supplements like for example bone meal since it's from sources that are less exposed to pollution. bone meal also adds a fairly high amount of phosphorus, so you have to use more of it per pound of meat to achieve a proper balance.
"too much calcium" is really only a problem if you feed too much calcium-containing foods or excessively high amounts of bone with only little meat. for dogs a calcium/phosphorus ratio of between 1:1 to 2:1 is appropriate, with the lower end being better. that means that you want your diet to contain between 1 to 2 mg of calcium for every mg of phosphorus.
additionally, NRC nutrient guidelines call for 50mg of calcium and phosphorus per kg of body weight per day in an adult dog's diet, that would be 22.73mg per pound of body weight.
for my 30 pound dog that would be 682mg per day, with a minimum of 682mg calcium for a 1:1 ratio and a maximum of 1364mg for a 2:1 ratio.
here are a few examples of common cooked foods and their average calcium and phosphorus content per 100g:
skinless chicken breast, cooked: ca 13mg, ph 165mg
ground beef 70% lean, cooked: ca 37mg, ph 194mg
chicken liver, cooked: ca 11mg, ph 405 mg
cheddar cheese, generic: ca 721mg, ph 512mg
whole egg without shell, large, scrambled: ca 43mg, ph 104mg
oatmeal, cooked with water only: ca 52mg, ph 474mg
carrots, cooked, no salt added: ca 30mg, ph 30mg
green beans, cooked, no salt added: ca 44mg, ph 29mg
sweet potato, baked: ca 38mg, ph 54mg
white rice, long grain, cooked: ca 10mg, ph 43mg
brown rice, long grain, cooked: ca 10mg, ph 83mg
white potato with skin, baked: ca 15mg, ph 70mg
www.nutritiondata.com is an excellent tool to calculate average nutrient contents of foods and you can even combine different ingredients to analyze recipes. just make sure you pick raw ingredients if you calculate a raw recipe, and cooked ingredients if you are calculating a cooked recipe.
if you need a calcium supplement to balance out recipes, egg shell powder is an excellent, inexpensive way to go. just save your egg shells whenever you use eggs for cooking. wash them immediately and pull the thin membrane skin out. once you have collected a decent amount of shells, dry them in the oven at 300 degrees for 10 minutes to make them more brittle. then grind them to a fine powder in a coffee grinder or food processor. i mostly use a mortar and pestle these days, less mess and cleanup that way, but it takes a little longer. your egg shell powder supplement will be of especially good quality if you use organic free range eggs. one teaspoon contains about 1800mg of calcium.
if you don't use many eggs or are too lazy for this and would rather spend money than time., this product is very nice. i prefer it to other calcium supplements like for example bone meal since it's from sources that are less exposed to pollution. bone meal also adds a fairly high amount of phosphorus, so you have to use more of it per pound of meat to achieve a proper balance.
just email them to me! 
I'll post them on here too just for the heck of it..if anyone else is interested:
Here is just one of them..this is the main one that I use:
7-8 (usually 8) cups of chicken (meat from thighs, legs, breast area...pretty much just CHICKEN, that way I don't have to add oil for fat)
2 cups of veggies mashed after steaming (usually carrots and celery/greens)
1 cup of brown rice
1 egg
1 tablespoon of ground flax seeds
and to this, I usually add 3 1/4 teaspoons of ground eggshell powder...
***I feed my 55lb pitbull about 1 1/2 cups of this "mix", two times a day
while serving, I will sometimes also add two heaping tablespoons of plain yoghurt.
How does that sound?
Here is just one of them..this is the main one that I use:
7-8 (usually 8) cups of chicken (meat from thighs, legs, breast area...pretty much just CHICKEN, that way I don't have to add oil for fat)
2 cups of veggies mashed after steaming (usually carrots and celery/greens)
1 cup of brown rice
1 egg
1 tablespoon of ground flax seeds
and to this, I usually add 3 1/4 teaspoons of ground eggshell powder...
***I feed my 55lb pitbull about 1 1/2 cups of this "mix", two times a day
while serving, I will sometimes also add two heaping tablespoons of plain yoghurt.
How does that sound?
i'm afraid i can't analyze this with the amounts you posted, since the measurements are too vague. it's better to have amounts in weight units rather than in cups. cups are a volume measurement that can vary drastically depending on what you are measuring. i also don't know if you meant one cup of rice cooked or uncooked.
i tweaked the recipe a little bit to get more definitive amounts and changed it to:
4 pounds of chicken (meat & skin)
10.6 oz of carrots and celery, cooked
1 cup of brown rice (cooked)
1 egg
1 tablespoon of ground flax seeds
3 1/4 teaspoons of ground eggshell powder
analysis of daily nutrient requirements for a 55 pound dog on the basis of the NRC requirements for adult dogs and a feeding amount of 750g (1 pound and 10.45 ounces) per day. i don't know if this is all you are feeding, or if you are giving any supplements, so i am commenting strictly on the unsupplemented recipe as listed above.
general:
* the energy content is appropriate for a highly active dog, one who is only moderately active could possibly gain weight on this daily amount. if the food amount is reduced, so are the nutrient amounts.
* the protein content, amino acid profile and amounts are fine.
* trimming some of the chicken skin and fat and supplementing fish oil would create a more beneficial fatty acid profile. the omega 6 content is quite high but no EPA or DHA are present.
vitamins:
* shortage of vitamin D, only 5 IU instead of 200 IU
* shortage of vitamin B2 and folic acid, but including chicken liver on a regular basis could fix that
minerals:
* the calcium-phosphorus ratio is at the high end of the range (2:1), but the daily ration is roughly 290 mg (23.2%) short on the daily recommendation of phosphorus. the calcium amount is 55.7% higher than it needs to be.
* magnesium is low, 167mg instead of 250mg
* potassium is low, 1402mg instead of 1750mg
* iron is just under half of what it should be (6mg instead of 12.5mg)
* copper is too low, only 0.75mg instead of 2.5mg
* zinc is too low, 8.25mg instead of 25mg
* manganese is too low, 0.75mg instead of 2 mg
* selenium is too low, 94.5mcg instead of 150mcg
difficulties:
you need to be careful not to supplement excessive amounts of vitamin A when trying to correct other shortages, such as for example if you added fish oil to supply vitamin D. it contains a lot of vitamin A, which is present in chicken liver, too, but you need the chicken liver for vitamin B2 and folate. canned salmon and chicken liver on the other hand would complement each other nicely.
i hope this helps.
i tweaked the recipe a little bit to get more definitive amounts and changed it to:
4 pounds of chicken (meat & skin)
10.6 oz of carrots and celery, cooked
1 cup of brown rice (cooked)
1 egg
1 tablespoon of ground flax seeds
3 1/4 teaspoons of ground eggshell powder
analysis of daily nutrient requirements for a 55 pound dog on the basis of the NRC requirements for adult dogs and a feeding amount of 750g (1 pound and 10.45 ounces) per day. i don't know if this is all you are feeding, or if you are giving any supplements, so i am commenting strictly on the unsupplemented recipe as listed above.
general:
* the energy content is appropriate for a highly active dog, one who is only moderately active could possibly gain weight on this daily amount. if the food amount is reduced, so are the nutrient amounts.
* the protein content, amino acid profile and amounts are fine.
* trimming some of the chicken skin and fat and supplementing fish oil would create a more beneficial fatty acid profile. the omega 6 content is quite high but no EPA or DHA are present.
vitamins:
* shortage of vitamin D, only 5 IU instead of 200 IU
* shortage of vitamin B2 and folic acid, but including chicken liver on a regular basis could fix that
minerals:
* the calcium-phosphorus ratio is at the high end of the range (2:1), but the daily ration is roughly 290 mg (23.2%) short on the daily recommendation of phosphorus. the calcium amount is 55.7% higher than it needs to be.
* magnesium is low, 167mg instead of 250mg
* potassium is low, 1402mg instead of 1750mg
* iron is just under half of what it should be (6mg instead of 12.5mg)
* copper is too low, only 0.75mg instead of 2.5mg
* zinc is too low, 8.25mg instead of 25mg
* manganese is too low, 0.75mg instead of 2 mg
* selenium is too low, 94.5mcg instead of 150mcg
difficulties:
you need to be careful not to supplement excessive amounts of vitamin A when trying to correct other shortages, such as for example if you added fish oil to supply vitamin D. it contains a lot of vitamin A, which is present in chicken liver, too, but you need the chicken liver for vitamin B2 and folate. canned salmon and chicken liver on the other hand would complement each other nicely.
i hope this helps.
i think with a bit of tweaking the recipe, you'll be fine. adding more variety helps a lot, e.g. feeding red meats as well as white meats, including organ meats and fish on a regular basis.
the only thing that needs a bit of work is the mineral content. use a little less egg shell powder, in most cases you don't need more than 1/2 to 2/3 teaspoon per pound of meat. as a roundabout rule of thumb, the leaner the meat, the lower the calcium and the higher the phosphorus content.
a good way to boost the mineral balance of the diet is feeding raw meaty bones. turkey necks for example are a good source of zinc.
the only thing that needs a bit of work is the mineral content. use a little less egg shell powder, in most cases you don't need more than 1/2 to 2/3 teaspoon per pound of meat. as a roundabout rule of thumb, the leaner the meat, the lower the calcium and the higher the phosphorus content.
a good way to boost the mineral balance of the diet is feeding raw meaty bones. turkey necks for example are a good source of zinc.