Whippets!?

[Laurelin]

Dekka, question...

Do the LH whippets have a double coat or a single coat. They always look like a single coat to me so it seemed odd that they assume the LH came from shelties. The coats look a lot more papillon/spaniel like to me.

I still want a LH whippet. Very badly.

ETA: Are you going to be breeding Bounce? Just curious lol.

 

[Dekka]

Bounce will not be having puppies. Seems she has seasonal allergies. Which is new in the breed. So even though everyone loves her (which is so weird, I have never had a 'popular' dog before) no Bouncelettes.

They have a single coat, or at least as much as regular whippets do. They have a little undercoat around their shoulders. What I find most interesting is on my trip around the US gathering samples I met plenty of smooth AKC registered whippets with a soft undercoat!!! Now these were always racing dogs who aren't judged on coat type.. but still. Bounce and Dash have no undercoat to speak of.

 

[SarahHound]

I guess 'long haired Whippets' are just Lurchers?

 

[Dekka]

No, well they may or may not be.

But regular whippets were terrier/greyhound and spaniel/greyhound mixes originally, so yes very lurcher like.

The deal is that the whippet clubs say its IMPOSSIBLE for LHW to come from pedigree whippet stock. The LHW say absolutely NO mixing was done.

The deal is it does seem very possible that they came from pedigree whippets, esp considering how 'new' new genetic material has gotten in the bloodlines.

It is possible that Mr Wheeler added a long haired breed (though doubtfully sheltie) to get the hair. Both are equally valid scenarios.

 

[SarahHound]

Thanks for that Dekka, doing some research told me there are apparently 24 in the UK, although there's very few that will accept them as a LH Whippet.

I can't see how they can be anything but Longdogs or Lurchers, there seems debate on whether they are Borzoi x Whippet, or Whippet x Borzoi x Collie. So they must be either Longdogs or Lurchers, because I can't see how a long one could have come around at all!

Pretty things though.

 

[Dekka]

Thanks for that Dekka, doing some research told me there are apparently 24 in the UK, although there's very few that will accept them as a LH Whippet.

I can't see how they can be anything but Longdogs or Lurchers, there seems debate on whether they are Borzoi x Whippet, or Whippet x Borzoi x Collie. So they must be either Longdogs or Lurchers, because I can't see how a long one could have come around at all!

Pretty things though.

Its quite simple. How do you think they can't come about naturally? Long coats are recessive.

I mean long haired dogs pop up in dalmatians and rottweilers, for example. And as far as I know they aren't so closely descended from long haired dogs.

I can tell you genetically there is NO reason why long haired whippets can't easily be full pedigree whippets with nothing 'added'.

Silkens are crosses between whippets and Zoi (and there are some LHW in there too) they look very similar to LHW, BUT they act more like zoi, and they have a definite undercoat.

Not saying they are for sure just whippets. But its a very logical argument to say they could be. Esp when long hair was allowable in the breed just after the turn of the century.

 

[Aleron]

The deal is that the whippet clubs say its IMPOSSIBLE for LHW to come from pedigree whippet stock.

It seems Whippet people were suspicious all along because of the differences between LHW and Whippets appearance wise. And they just didn't feel it was likely they were purebred. Now years later, the MDR-1 gene does seem to support that they aren't from entirely the same gene pool that Whippets are from. The Whippet people seem pretty confident that the LHWs were not pure Whippet and the Silken people seem pretty confident that the LHWs were not pure Whippet - seems only the LHW people believe they are purebred Whippets. Or I should say were purebred Whippets? At this point, it seems they are a distinct breed regardless of where they originated.

It seems like it isn't unusual for people to claim breed...umm..."oddities" are purebred. Some are, some aren't and some no one will ever know for sure.

 

[Dekka]

except the fact that the MDR1 gene HAS been found in regular whippets. Its not common, not by a long shot. And breeders aren't testing for it (so even less likely to be found)

Actually yes there is a way to know. If the mutated FGF5 gene is found in the pedigree whippet population then it would be very simple to see its not only possible but likely.

And actually no its not just LHW people. There are a LOT of regular whippet people who do believe LHW are purebred whippets. In fact the LHW club regularly breeds to ch. smooth KC dogs. I know of a Crufts qualified for life stud dog was sold to a smooth breed with it being open that that dog was also going to breed LHW. Its the vocal few.

Now fuzzy puppies happen from time to time in smooth lines. Some of the most vocal detractors have changed their tunes pretty quickly when a fuzzy puppy has shown up.

As I have said. Both scenarios are likely and possible. I find it strange on the people who say its IMPOSSIBLE when its very possible. I don't care either way. Even if a dog was added once back in the 50's since that allleged one dog all the other dogs would have been pure whippets so IMO they would be whippets anyway.

They don't act any different, nor do the smooth progeny from LHW look any different from typical show whippets.

ETA: the top dog in CARA racing (Canadian amateur racing assoc) was a LHW. Though he looks like a 'regular' whippet he is from LHW stock.

 

[Fran101]

The only thing i know about Whippets is that they look **** cute in sweaters

 

[Aleron]

except the fact that the MDR1 gene HAS been found in regular whippets. Its not common, not by a long shot. And breeders aren't testing for it (so even less likely to be found)

I'm going on what the place that does the testing lists as affected breeds. Whippets aren't listed at all but LHWs have the highest % of any breed except Collies:
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/breeds.aspx

 

[Dekka]

Yes its listed. But I have talked to breeders with AKC registered whippets that have tested positive.

They didn't claim the breed when they sent it in.

Now its more prevalent in LHW. Makes sense as they were VERY inbred back in the early 60s. All it would take would be one of the foundation dogs to have carried it and one would expect the frequency to be quite high.

The other issue is there are two groups of LHW. One is very open about crossing them with things. They still do it and sell them as percentage whippets. They put down LHW when they do health testing. IME those dogs are not as healthy and don't look nearly as much like whippets.

 

[Aleron]

Yes its listed. But I have talked to breeders with AKC registered whippets that have tested positive.

They didn't claim the breed when they sent it in.

That's kinda weird! So they'd be included in the Mixed Breeds, which is still a really low percentage.

The other issue is there are two groups of LHW. One is very open about crossing them with things. They still do it and sell them as percentage whippets. They put down LHW when they do health testing. IME those dogs are not as healthy and don't look nearly as much like whippets.

That seems to be the case with a lot of developing breeds. Like the Shiloh people have a lot of differing camps with sometimes quite different ideas (and the King Shepherd pretty much split from there too).

 

[Dekka]

Ya.. it is weird. But hey one of the most vocal naysayers has recently admitted one of his dogs had a fuzzy puppy.. People are weird.

The one set of LHW seem to just be doing what ever with no plan or reason from what I can see. I hear they have a lot of health problems (talking to people who got them, then switched due health issues... pet people rarely care about politics.

As it is I don't really care either way. It just really irks me when ppl say its not possible.. Its very possible. In fact my thesis is on just that, I am being funded by both smooth KC whippet owners AND LHW owners. The prof I am doing my thesis with has held a Canadian Chair in molecular genetics. He believes its a very valid possibility both ways. So minds wiser than you and I in this area believe it is absolutely possible that LHW came from the pedigree whippet population

 

[LostAndConfused]

Ya.. it is weird. But hey one of the most vocal naysayers has recently admitted one of his dogs had a fuzzy puppy.. People are weird.

The one set of LHW seem to just be doing what ever with no plan or reason from what I can see. I hear they have a lot of health problems (talking to people who got them, then switched due health issues... pet people rarely care about politics.

As it is I don't really care either way. It just really irks me when ppl say its not possible.. Its very possible. In fact my thesis is on just that, I am being funded by both smooth KC whippet owners AND LHW owners. The prof I am doing my thesis with has held a Canadian Chair in molecular genetics. He believes its a very valid possibility both ways. So minds wiser than you and I in this area believe it is absolutely possible that LHW came from the pedigree whippet population

I've been following this thread because I think long haired sighthounds are awesome.

I just wanted to say that the part that I bolded is beyond awesome and the coolest thing I've read on the internet today.

 

[~Dixie's_Mom~]

I'm obviously of no help, but I love Whippets and hope to own one someday. Whether it will be my next dog or not, I don't know, I'm researching a few different breeds, but I definitely want a Whippet. Their personalities sound very much like my Chloe from what I've been told by Kerri/Dekka. And of course, I love that.

Good luck in your search!

 

[Dekka]

LOL I think my thesis is VERY cool. I am so stoked to be doing on something that not only am I genuinely interested in, with the support of some amazing profs, it also could have some real world application.

 

[Teal]

If you are interested in showing, have you looked into Silken Windhounds? They're about the same size as whippets, and have really pretty coats!

Aside from that - whippets are awesome! I don't know any from show/pet bred lines, I only know field bred lines... but they are happy, fun dogs that do well with other dogs.

 

[Dekka]

Are silkens recognized in the US? Here they show the rare breed club, same as the long haired whippets.

 

[LostAndConfused]

Silkens are recognized with the UKC but not the AKC.

 

[Dekka]

ah Thnx