Which political party is right? *turns into a bit of a rant..*

GlassOnion

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#1
Of course, politics! Always a fun topic! The obvious answer being "neither", but that's not really what this thread is about.

It seems to me that there has to be a 'right' way to do things. A way that is the correct way to respond in times of economic disaster, in times of boom times, in times of war, in times of peace, etc., and these things are theoretically proven in academia and in some cases proven in the 'real' world to work, but neither party really gets to institute their beliefs because half the country thinks they're wrong and the other half is just trying to get in their policies before their 'guy' is out of office.

Seems absolutely destructive to me. Like nothing can ever get done because we keep flying from one extreme to the other. There's no stability at all. Is this really a good way to run the country? Do people really think a bi-party system, or a party system at all, is still a good idea? It would seem so, but why? Poorly educated, selectively educated, or they just don't give a **** because they're too busy worrying about No. 1 at the moment, and aren't concerned with the overarching intricacies of politics and how they are affected by private interests, religion, etc.?

But back to the beginning: how are we ever to figure out which way to run things if we sway back and forth between each extreme every 4 or 8 years? Fiscal conservatism at one point, then spending like it's going out of style at another. It takes a while for such large scale spending to affect the economy to a palpable scale (every 7 years I believe) and by the time it does have an affect, the other party is in office. So if we're doing good people go "I ****ing love this guy! Vote X!", if we're doing bad "**** this guy, I can't afford a new Y, I'm never voting X again!" but I'm not sure 'the masses' know to look back further than the present. Maybe I'm just not giving the masses enough credit.

Anyhow it's frustrating to see politics constantly swung by religion (which should have NO bearing on anything IMO, but that's another 'fun' topic), private interests (bailouts being exploited for personal gain, then the cutting and running with no accountability), foreign interests/investments/wars when our own country is going to **** (did you see the new transportation budget? Reduced by a quarter IIRC). I mean, what the ****? Are we just doomed?

“It has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried", so maybe it's just time for a new system entirely? But I can't imagine people deviating much from their set ways. I guess when things get *really* bad there may be uprising but it's a question of whether the country is run into the ground (and we get invaded/taken over) before any revolution can take place. And during a revolution, what's to say that China or Russia or whomever doesn't just jump at the opportunity to declare war and conquer while we're in-fighting?


We seem very doomed in the long run - extraterrestrial events not even being taken into account.
 

Dreeza

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#2
No, you are giving the masses enough credit. People want to see results...NOW. It is the entire problem with America. It is going to be my biggest issue in my career when I am trying to explain to someone that physical therapy is not a magic pill that will make the pain go away instantly....or my program is not going to make you drop 50 lbs in one day. For some reason, people will always choose the instant result choice (or what seems like it)...without realizing the implications or possible detrimental effects it may have in the long term (and the sad part is, when I say long term, in some cases this refers to less than a year or two...most cases it is longer, but still well within peoples' lifespan).

until this thinking is fixed, as long as we have a democracy, what you are describing will ALWAYS be a problem.
 

sillysally

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#3
IDK, I'm starting to think that it is healthier for the country to not have a unified political message/goal on the federal level. I sort of see the country as a car on a narrow road with a ravine on either side. Both the extreme right and the extreme left mean well, but are so blinded by their own beliefs that they are deluded into seeing their respective sides of the roads as utopia rather that the steep drop off that they actually are. I'd rather have them fighting over the wheel and keeping the car on the road (even if the ride is jarring at times), then to have both sides agree and end up in the ditch.
 

GlassOnion

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#5
IDK, I'm starting to think that it is healthier for the country to not have a unified political message/goal on the federal level. I sort of see the country as a car on a narrow road with a ravine on either side. Both the extreme right and the extreme left mean well, but are so blinded by their own beliefs that they are deluded into seeing their respective sides of the roads as utopia rather that the steep drop off that they actually are. I'd rather have them fighting over the wheel and keeping the car on the road (even if the ride is jarring at times), then to have both sides agree and end up in the ditch.
Right, and that's why neither side is correct, so there's got to be a way to compromise or get issues to be bigger than parties. It shouldn't be that when you vote for X you're also voting against Y and Z, which you might agree with, but you hate X more strongly than you like Y and Z. You're essentially triaging your belief system.

I wonder if having issues up to vote, with just a series of questions of "do you agree with X? Do you agree with Y? Do you agree with Z?" would be a better system. Politicians wouldn't be allowed to advertise or plug themselves in any way, because it shouldn't matter. Their beliefs would/should be blind and any advertisement (mail, TV, etc) of their beliefs illegal. Then when people have voted, the candidate who's beliefs were most voted for wins.

Course then you run into the same problem we have today of one candidate just picking the most popular issues to base their platform on (platform in this system would just be them identifying to the people in control of counting the vote). Also I can imagine a fiasco of wording questions "Do you agree that X is not a good idea for not being the best for this country?"

I wonder what such a system would do to voter turnout? Increase it because you feel like you have more say or decrease it because people only have an attention span long enough to tick one box then leave?
 

Beanie

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#6
Yeah it's interesting. People only want to talk about "compromise" when their party is in control. I remember when Obama won, a friend drew a comic of a donkey kicking an elephant in the butt, with the caption "Now let's get to work."

Why NOW let's get to work?? Why not before? You only want to "get to work" if there's a democrat driving the ship? If the republican is in control you want to sit on your hands and do nothing, just bitch and moan about how things aren't going the way you want?
Or was it just because it was Bush they refused to "get to work?" Because we all know how much people LOOOOOVE to hate Bush, so much they refuse to even CALL him "Bush." And I'm not talking lovingly so like when I refer to him as G-dubs, it's done with the intent to be rude. It's no different than if everybody started refusing to say "Obama" and just said "Nobama." It's just stupid and petty.


THAT is the problem. Yes, we should be able to compromise, but politicians (and some people, but that's neither here not there) seem to think "compromise" means to drop what you want and agree with the other side. There is no meeting in the middle - it's very much my way or the highway. It's stupid, petty, childish, there are a lot of descriptors for the behaviour that I could go on and on about, but it's ridiculous.


There are a lot of things that go back and forth with the two-party system. A democrat gets in office and overturns a bunch of stuff. A republican gets in office and overturns it all again. The democrat gets back in and overturns it back. Back and forth and over and over. A lot of it isn't "big stuff" that means a lot but it's still an example of how this can be so ineffective, going back and forth and never forward.

And of course there's the finger-pointing. Just a few weeks ago the house had a bill and they couldn't pass it "because of the republicans." I'm sorry? The democrats HAVE THE MAJORITY... it's not the republicans who stopped the bill from passing. They couldn't even sell it to their own party, but OH NO, let's blame the other side! Can we just stop pointing fingers and, as was said, GET TO WORK? Nope. Too busy passing the buck and assigning blame.


But how do you fix it? I dunno. Fire everybody in the government, tell everybody to grow the hell up, and start over? I think that's called a revolution. But I don't know if that will really "fix it."
 

GlassOnion

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#7
There are a lot of things that go back and forth with the two-party system. A democrat gets in office and overturns a bunch of stuff. A republican gets in office and overturns it all again. The democrat gets back in and overturns it back. Back and forth and over and over. A lot of it isn't "big stuff" that means a lot but it's still an example of how this can be so ineffective, going back and forth and never forward.
This is pretty much the heart of the issue IMO. Bush's tax cuts will expire (or have expired already) so they go back up. Now we won't get a real clear data set in the future for whether they worked (my money is on no) or were just voter/contributor pandering.


That's another thing that bothers me. Why are companies even allowed to contribute to campaign funds? Seriously, the amounts need to be ridiculously low and none of this "oh, we found 1,000,000 people from Montown to contribute $10 each!" stuff either.

I fail to see how such large contributions aren't a direct conflict of interests. I think it's one of those things that everyone (even the people doing it) know is amoral, but no one can really stop them except the person receiving the benefit and well, that's not going to happen.
 

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