Which option is fair?

Which is fair

  • Dog becomes an outdoor kennel dog 90% of the time

    Votes: 1 2.8%
  • Dog is rehomed to someone with no other pets/kids

    Votes: 14 38.9%
  • Dog is put to sleep

    Votes: 21 58.3%

  • Total voters
    36

Adrienne

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#1
Hypothetical question here.

So lets say someone has owned a dog for about six years. In this time the dog as a pup went through obedience training and did well, was well socialized with both people and other dogs and showed no issues. Lets say around ten months old this pup was attacked by another dog and even with lots of attempts will not accept most dogs and in fact will actively seek out and attempt to kill other dogs, no warning growl or bite, just straight out aiming to kill. Said dog is good with other dog in household unless a high resource is around, (however, dog had to be muzzled approximately four months for this to be the scenario) same with a few select other dogs that dog has known since puppy-hood.

Dog showed no aggression toward humans until he was approx. four-years-old. Now when dog is out on tie-out if someone strange comes around the side of the yard not in direct sight of dog, dog will bite...generally doing little damage but definitely a bite. If said person comes down driveway in dogs view and says dogs name dog is fine, it is only if they come around where dog can't see them right away that the dog bites.

Dog is good on leash and generally with a 'leave it' command will ignore by-passers although on one occasion dog jumped up and bit someones hand but it appeared to be in play. Person was not injured. No skin broken.

Dog knows many commands and is a well behaved dog in the home and around everyone dog knows.

Dog at this point in life has killed two animals and wounded badly three animals. Dog has bit three people, none requiring medical attention but did break skin. Dog has had a recent exam and no medical issues were found. Dog recently went after other dog that lives in the house when no resources were nearby although no damage occurred to other dog and fight was broken up quickly and successfully. Dog attacked when other dog approached to investigate something on their human while main dog was snoozing.

Dog is now always muzzled in the yard. Dog has never shown any aggression toward it's immediate family but the concern now is that dog is escalating. The family does consist of a few different pets including two dogs and a family with children. Family is now concerned that dog will 'turn' on kids and is becoming more unpredictable with aggression.

The options are as follows in the poll. Thanks for your input!
 

Adrienne

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#4
The question of it being hypothetical or not is not up for discussion or debate. :rolleyes:I know this is an open forum but please keep postings on topic...topic being which option is fair. Anything else feel free to PM me.:)
 

Romy

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#6
1. Killing other animals should have NO bearing on it. That is prey drive. Not aggression that is transferred to people in any way, shape, or form. If that was the case I would have to put my dogs down.

2. Aggression togwards dogs, ditto.

3. The nipping on the hands is more of a concern. I wasn't sure if you meant they were breaking the skin or not?

If the family who owns that dog isn't able to properly manage its exposures to triggers, or its behavior when exposed to triggers, then they need to either have it put down or rehome it for the safety of people around them and the dog itself.

How the heck does hypothetical dog bite someone not in its direct line of sight? I assume at some point the dog sees them. I wouldn't leave a dog with issues like you describe unsupervised on a tieout. A kennel or a well fenced yard sounds like a MUCH safer option, IMO. Likewise, I wouldn't leave him unsupervised with my children regardless of how well behaved he was, but the way the scenario is described it doesn't sound like aggression toward family members is an issue. Just toward strangers/people it can't see well? :confused:
 
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#7
The dog needs to be PTS or rehomed with someone with experience. With all these "accidents" i really question what has been done at home. I had a 4 year old come to me with DA to the point she'd rather eat a dog than sniff it if she could see or smell it. She had scars by her eyes, and where some teeth went thru her front legs, so yeah, she had a history. We worked and when I had her doing well, a fricking mutt came charging out of a door and tried attakcing her again. Luckily I was able to kick that dogs ass before any real harm was done.

anyway, who cares about my story, she's good now, in public, at home and with other dogs I want her to be with. Human aggression doesn't just come out of nowhere, something has been happening. They are not the owners for this dog, put it to sleep or find a new owner that knows how to build a relationship and control a dog.
 

Adrienne

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#8
Dog has broken skin a few times when biting the people that came around the side of the house where dog did not have a clear line of sight on them until they were within his tie-out area. Coming down the driveway dog has a clear line of sight on them the whole way. Dog did not break skin when dog jumped and bit at hand during walk.

Thank you Romy and RTH's for usable information.

Puppydog after all my years on Chaz I know that nothing stays on topic but that is because of people who don't bother to try to stay on topic. Lets give it the old college try instead of pointing out the flaw of Chaz lets try to remedy that by keeping on topic! What a novel idea eh?
 

Giny

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#9
Honestly, up to the point that he's been showing aggression towards humans, I would have voted to be placed in a home with no kids or dogs, as long as it's a home with a knowledgeable person who would know how to handle this situation.

But the fact that he's shown aggression towards humans, though I don't know all the facts. And it started at four, how old is he now? Is this a new behavior? I'd be worried about it escalating too. If he was my dog I'd be concern, I couldn't rehome him, I'd feel like I'd just be passing off a possible dangerous future scenario off to someone else.

It would be a very difficult decision, not one made lightly, but I think the best option would be to put him to sleep.
 

corgipower

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#11
A tie out where he can reach passers by?? That set up needs to seriously be changed.

If there's that much risk of biting, then he at least needs to always be muzzled.

Dog at this point in life has killed two animals and wounded badly three animals. Dog has bit three people, none requiring medical attention but did break skin. Dog has had a recent exam and no medical issues were found.
This worries me a lot. It sounds like it's partly the dog having some issues going on, but it also sounds like the owners aren't managing it sufficiently. Depends on what they're tried already to rehab/retrain the dog and if they're capable of changing their management approach. With that kind of bite history, the owners have proven that they're unable to prevent it.



And I agree ...this doesn't sound hypothetical.

Honestly, I very much dislike suggesting euth over the internet, and certainly not without a lot more information. But...since this is all hypothetical, I can't do that. I will say, hypothetically, hire a behaviorist who uses positive only methods. Maybe even a veterinary behaviorist who can decide whether or not the dog would benefit from medication. And let someone who can assess the situation in person make the call.

Or tell us...hypothetically of course...more specifics of what was tried as far as rehabbing, what the owner's response is when the dog does bite someone, what they do as far as management to ensure he is unable to bite anyone ~ human or animal ~ in the future.
 

Adrienne

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#13
Corgi~so far what has been done is dog is muzzled whenever outside unattended or kenneled with a lock on the kennel outdoors. Dog is also muzzled if going anywhere with a population of dogs/other animals, ie. vet office. Dog apparently does not bother to be reactive when muzzled, just ignores other dogs/people.

As for what is done indoors to protect the other pets; animals are rotated so each animal has time out with the family.
 

corgipower

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#14
Corgi~so far what has been done is dog is muzzled whenever outside unattended or kenneled with a lock on the kennel outdoors. Dog is also muzzled if going anywhere with a population of dogs/other animals, ie. vet office. Dog apparently does not bother to be reactive when muzzled, just ignores other dogs/people.

As for what is done indoors to protect the other pets; animals are rotated so each animal has time out with the family.
Well, if he's muzzled every time, then there won't be any further bite risk. :) Not fun, but sometimes necessary. Certainly better than spending life isolated in a kennel.

What has been done in terms of training?
 

Adrienne

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#15
Let's say dog has been through three classes as a pup with owner doing general maintenance work on a daily basis. Dog responds great to commands, is reliable off leash in a controlled environment, ie, no other dogs nearby. Dog is exercised daily with an average of 3-5 miles of jogging and dog also enjoys playing fetch and swimming on a weekly basis. Dog has fantastic focus when a ball is around and also has great watch me focus. Other dogs can be nearby if the dog is playing ball and other dogs are not a threat to this dogs ball chasing.
 

Maxy24

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#16
He really needs a trainer (not punishment based of course), now. If his current owner cannot do that he should be rehomed to someone who they KNOW will (in fact it should be required), or he should be put to sleep. The dog clearly is not being managed properly if he's been allowed to bite three people and attack several (I assume domestic) animals. The other animals in his home are not safe with him, making him live outside will likely make him miserable and won't do anything to help his aggression. Since he bit most of the people WHILE outside on a tie out chances are living outside might just allow him to bite more people.

It sounds like he's biting people out of fear. He bites when on a tie out (running away is not an option) and only when they "sneak" up on him. If that is the case then he likely can be helped. Even if it's territorial that can be worked on, starting with no more unsupervised time in the yard where he could bite someone.

But the dog really needs a trainer, this problem cannot be ignored especially in a home with other animals when the dog is animal aggressive. While based on what you've said the dog does not sound like he'll go after people in his family, a child certainly could get hurt if the dog goes for another dog while the child is interacting with the dog or if the child tries to help one of the dogs during the fight.
 

Lizmo

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#17
If the dog needs to be muzzled all the time except for a couple hours here and there, what kind of life is that?

After biting so many, and even killing some, at the VERY least this dogs need a new home where he will recieve the training and behavioral work he needs. If that's not possible, my suggestion would be PTS.
 

corgipower

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#19
Let's say dog has been through three classes as a pup with owner doing general maintenance work on a daily basis. Dog responds great to commands, is reliable off leash in a controlled environment, ie, no other dogs nearby. Dog is exercised daily with an average of 3-5 miles of jogging and dog also enjoys playing fetch and swimming on a weekly basis. Dog has fantastic focus when a ball is around and also has great watch me focus. Other dogs can be nearby if the dog is playing ball and other dogs are not a threat to this dogs ball chasing.
Classes as in obedience? Has he been to any trainers since the aggression started? How old is he? What breed? 3-5 miles of jogging daily is great, but sometimes keeping a dog too fit can be problematic. ;)

He doesn't need obedience. He needs behavior modification. He needs desensitizing. He needs counter conditioning. Sits, heels, leave its, etc. are all great, but they don't address the issue.

Training along the lines of Click to Calm would be a good starting point.
 

Fran101

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#20
Id say rehomed to a trainer or behaviorist or somebody with lots of experience with dogs and training and of course somebody who is FULLY AWARE of the situation/the dogs history
 

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