When is a mutt no longer a mutt?
- Thread starter cardinalfanUSA
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if you breed a dobe and a mastiff you have a mutt. but if you take the pups out of those littler that represent the traits you are trying to create a breed for and breed those, and then breed the best of those and so on until you have a standard. When there is a standard that you can expect when breeding, that is when you have a breed. But if you breed a Golden and a Poodle you cant guarantee a hypoallergenic dog, you cant predict what kind of coat it will have, etc. You need color, size, coat, temperament, etc standards before it is a breed.
To me, the dogs would need to breed true and create similar dogs without throwbacks to the original breeds. Many of the designer breeds (like the goldendoodle) are still first generation mixes while something like a bullmastiff, while once a mixed breed, has been bred only to bullmastiffs for a long time.
If I wanted a litter of goldendoodles, I would go get a poodle and a golden. If I wanted bullmastiffs, I would get a pair of bullmastiffs. Thats the difference to me.
As a semi- asside, I think that a standard would need to be written up. The bullmastiff wasnt created with a written standard, but the dog world doesnt seem to function well without one now.
If I wanted a litter of goldendoodles, I would go get a poodle and a golden. If I wanted bullmastiffs, I would get a pair of bullmastiffs. Thats the difference to me.
As a semi- asside, I think that a standard would need to be written up. The bullmastiff wasnt created with a written standard, but the dog world doesnt seem to function well without one now.
A mutt is usually no longer considered a mutt when:
-There is a recognized standard. That means there are specific requirements for size, coat length, temperament, etc.
-The dogs have been breeding true for several generations (I think the AKC requires 5 or 6 generations). For example, if mommy and daddy labradoodle consistantly produce litters of puppies that all fit the labradoodle standard.
-And I believe that for formal recognition, the breed must have a parent club and following, something like "The Labradoodle Club of America." The club must have shows and maintain a registry of breeding dogs.
That's why the "doodle" breeds are still considered mutts (with the possible exception of the Australian labrodoodle). Most doodles still come from two parents of different breeds---like a breeding between a female golden retriever and a male poodle--not two doodle parents. There are also no written standards.
-There is a recognized standard. That means there are specific requirements for size, coat length, temperament, etc.
-The dogs have been breeding true for several generations (I think the AKC requires 5 or 6 generations). For example, if mommy and daddy labradoodle consistantly produce litters of puppies that all fit the labradoodle standard.
-And I believe that for formal recognition, the breed must have a parent club and following, something like "The Labradoodle Club of America." The club must have shows and maintain a registry of breeding dogs.
That's why the "doodle" breeds are still considered mutts (with the possible exception of the Australian labrodoodle). Most doodles still come from two parents of different breeds---like a breeding between a female golden retriever and a male poodle--not two doodle parents. There are also no written standards.
To make a "purebred" you must breed true for at least 7 generation and keep going consistantly with a certain look and a certain temperment. I have a buddy in Brazil who is breeding a Bandogge which to him is the ultimate working dog for his ranch and he has been working at this for years. Recently (as in within the last few breedings) he has been breeding true consistantly so you could say he is on the verge of having a real "new breed" and he is VERY happy with what he has accomplished but if I have it right he is planning on outcrossing to another breed a couple more times yet.
To be specific 40% Bulldog and 60% MAstiff although apparently there have been suggestions that Dogue de Bordeaux, Bull Terrier and Deutsche DoggeThey need to close the stud book and bitch book for not more dogs of other breeds and create a purebred golden doodle.
When they breed enough Golden Doodles to Golden Doodles for 3 generations they are then a Purebred _ but then they loose the DOODLE sensation.
I do think I read some where the people down under are breeding true.
If they create a new breed for a want into todays society for allergy sufferers
I dont have a problem with it as long as they are testing for disease ane temperament... And to create a new breed one needs to CULL and most modern people can not do that.. Where 100 years ago that was done all the time in the creation and study of new breeds. If the dog did not have the specific traits that the mixing was bred for it was cull or sent out to family or friends that did NOT breed based on their "WORD" which meant more back then.
But the think the designer breeds will go out as a fad once the market is filled over the top with backyard breeders and poorly bred dogs.
When they breed enough Golden Doodles to Golden Doodles for 3 generations they are then a Purebred _ but then they loose the DOODLE sensation.
I do think I read some where the people down under are breeding true.
If they create a new breed for a want into todays society for allergy sufferers
I dont have a problem with it as long as they are testing for disease ane temperament... And to create a new breed one needs to CULL and most modern people can not do that.. Where 100 years ago that was done all the time in the creation and study of new breeds. If the dog did not have the specific traits that the mixing was bred for it was cull or sent out to family or friends that did NOT breed based on their "WORD" which meant more back then.
But the think the designer breeds will go out as a fad once the market is filled over the top with backyard breeders and poorly bred dogs.
Even thou I agree we have allot of breeds. And NO need to make mutts for profit. However the reason we have these breeds we love so much is the "idea" of someone who took the idea and ran with it to make the breeds we love today.
We would not be the US of a of we were not founded on ideas and individual thougths.... And since the future of many of the PUREBRED dogs we have today are uncertain due to such severe inbreeding it is said many of the purebreds we love today will be EXTINCT in the future . And due to BSL some outlawed.
So if the educated NON live off profit minded people got to together to recreate a dying breed or a new one that was like in the old days created for a purpose I wont knock them....Many breeds today are petitioning AKC to Open the studs books to allow outcross of other breeds to save and help reduce health issues in their breeds...Or in the Chinook case the lack of gene variability so they have allowed outcrosses with specific regulations.
What the future holds ? who knows im not a mind reader but it does not look to good for many of the beloved breeds we have.
IM NOT for Designer breeds let that be clear see other threads. But I see a danger in the future where we may lose what we have.,
We would not be the US of a of we were not founded on ideas and individual thougths.... And since the future of many of the PUREBRED dogs we have today are uncertain due to such severe inbreeding it is said many of the purebreds we love today will be EXTINCT in the future . And due to BSL some outlawed.
So if the educated NON live off profit minded people got to together to recreate a dying breed or a new one that was like in the old days created for a purpose I wont knock them....Many breeds today are petitioning AKC to Open the studs books to allow outcross of other breeds to save and help reduce health issues in their breeds...Or in the Chinook case the lack of gene variability so they have allowed outcrosses with specific regulations.
What the future holds ? who knows im not a mind reader but it does not look to good for many of the beloved breeds we have.
IM NOT for Designer breeds let that be clear see other threads. But I see a danger in the future where we may lose what we have.,
