Discussion in 'Dogs - General Dog Chat' started by Doberluv, Sep 27, 2009.
Man, if I was going to get a dog based solely on looks, I would have a passel of GSD's.
I admit that I like a GSD with a slight slope. But the dogs in that video makes me sick. I feel so bad for those dogs. How can people be so cruel. They are breeding deformities into these dogs. When is enough enough? How far do they have to push things?? Until the dogs cant even walk?
I've always loved german shepherds. I think they are one of the most beautiful dogs out there. Dan, your boy is a hunk. He looks big and powerful, but yet still agile.
Bull terriers of the past were much more beautiful then than they are now. Dachshunds look better way back as well.
Thanks Xandra. He's 26.5", and right at 90lbs, which seems to be a good weight for him. He's been as low as 86 and as high as 93, but you can't really tell when he fluctuates 5lbs either direction. He's just over 4 1/2 yrs old now.
Your dog might be a little long legged but I bet he can jump! Gunnar can clear a 5' fence without touching. We've never worked on any wall climbing, I'd like to give that a try. I used to take the A frame at the police obstacle course and put it up as high as it could go and he had no problem doing that.
The dogs in that video . . . God, its emotionally, physically, and aesthetically painful to watch them. I hurt in sympathy . . . I cringe at the sheer UGLINESS of the way they move. Ugh.
Really...? I don't know about that. German Shepherds have been one of the most popular breeds in the country for a century or so, and surely they haven't always been so messed up by confo breeders.
In my experience, the show line dogs are much more unstable as far as temperament. D: Snappy, loud, and rude. All of the nicely bred working GSDs I've known have been much more stable and predictable, maybe not friendlier, but more well mannered and aloof.
Well, there was a time when GSDs were considered "bad" and "scary" along with dobes and rotties, back in the formative years of BSL. A lot of insurance companies still don't like them.
I only have experience with working dogs, except for Tengu who the GSD rescue said was probably a mix of american showline and half west german highlines. Tengu was the PERFECT pet dog, except for her ultra severe separation anxiety that caused explosive diarrhea and mass destruction of our home when she couldn't be in the same room as us. It was such a severe handicap, it's a miracle that a good home for her was ever found. I'm sure not all showlines dogs are that neurotic, but she's the only I have worked with vs. working lines of GSDs and they were all stable and emotionally balanced, despite having more energy and drive.
Wow, he's gorgeous! Is he from a breeder/lines?
THAT is a good looking GSD! If I ever got one, I would only get one like that.
Thank you Lizmo, he's from a breeder. His mother is from the Slovakian railway patrol kennels and was used as a breeding dog in the Czech border patrol kennel, and his father is the son of a decorated Czech-bred dual purpose K9 in Alabama. His granddam on his father's side is a Leerburg dog and one of his uncles is Leerburg's main stud.
Dan, he sure can jump, and he loves it.
I will post some more photos of him in the next couple of weeks, a few days ago he ripped the pads off of his "thumbs" so I don't want him doing anything "cool" right now.
As for this next part, sorry for being so long winded and off topic... the thread was about to expire so I don't feel too guilty "reviving" it in a different direction, if anyone wants to start a new thread about it be my guest.
I probably should have said your "average" GSD but I still stand by my first statement. It has nothing to do with the working lines themselves, I love them, they are good dogs, but I just wouldn't trust a ton of people with them.
I am only 18 so I haven't been around for long enough to be able to tell you, from my own experience, when the pit bull breed started to go downhill. But from what I have heard and read, part of the problem was when the breed went out of the hands of the experienced dogfighters and into "pet" homes/people who didn't know what they were doing. Simply because not everyone knows or cares enough about working dog lines to handle them properly, that simple.
From what I have learned, this "my pet is my child" thing wasn't as widely practiced either. People were harder on dogs- which may not be best for the dog's mental health, but at least puttting a dog into avoidance prevent unwanted behaviors. With a working line dog, that is driven and, for instance, might see little squealing children as "prey" you need to be able to redirect or correct or SOMETHING to stop the behavior. Can you imagine the type that goes "no, puppy, please don't"??? It would do nothing, nothing at all. And of course the more the dog does it the more it wants to. There will always be people who get what they want regardless of what more experienced people tell them, we've all seen it happen. To me, it's good that there is a dog out there to fill the niche for a pretty Rin Tin Tin that is significantly toned down.
Most "normal" GSD's I know are happy with a good walk and maybe a bit of fetch. Working lines are more active and intense, it's their trademark. A bored, underexercised, driven dog will find a job. It might be destroying the house or it might be firing up on random dogs on their boring walks. And hell, a lot of people can't seem to handle your average chihuahua's "dog aggression" let alone an 80lb German shepherd. It's pretty common knowledge that bordom and frustration manifest as aggression in dogs and I would say that's especially true with the more intense/driven/aggressively inclined breeds or in this case, lines, and if they were to replace show dogs there would be a lot more bored and frustrated working GSD's around.
On another thread, someone was trying to decide on a GSD line and many were discouraging him/her from getting a working line dog because it might be "too much"- and he/she was doing his/her research and wanted to join a Schutzhund or agility club. The general population, who just wants a pet or something to trot around the ring with, getting a dog like that? Please, no. They make fine pets if you take into account that they aren't really meant to be "pets" at all. Hence the whole working part.
The pit bull cases that get the most media attention are not dogs that bite in defense. It's the cases where the dogs have mauled and have to be shot off or stabbed or beaten off the victims that really get people. Now who knows for sure what really is going through those dogs' heads, but that does not sound like bad nerves to me. Bad nerves is CHOMP "GET AWAY FROM ME" not finding someone, who is very likely intimidated, and then biting and holding on while the person screams and thrashes trying to escape, and then continuing to attack while enduring extensive bodily harm. When I hear of situations like that, I think of prey drive- for instance, my dog holding a llama's hind leg while being dragged around, kicked, bounced off trees, etc, and loving it the whole time. That was not him being "unstable" or "weak nerved" or wired wrong, that was a dog who had a mind designed to tell it that if something looks fun to bite, try biting it, and if it's fun keep doing it. The whole point of working lines is they are supposed to be courageous enough to bite when they feel inclined and driven/ tenacious enough to continue. Now the dog-llama example that I used is because my dog was not appropriately directed on a proper attitude towards llamas- but he certainly wasn't encouraged. He took it upon himself and after the initial incident it took some training to change his behavior toward them.
And once they hit the papers a little bit, you'd better believe the "badazzez" would take an interest in them. Especially with the lines that tend to be sharper, it would be pretty easy with undersocialization and some encouragement to get a pretty nasty dog. The media would certainly have plenty of material to work with, what with Schutzhund and everything.
Yikes!!! That video was disturbing.
Can you imagine Czech and DDR dogs with all that defense, low thresholds and sharpness in the wrong hands?! I'm glad the public views those dogs in the video as GSD's and dont really know about working lines.
great pics of nice dogs)
This my slovakian/ddr girl Masi, she's still pretty immature at 16mths but she's a ball of fire.
She is out of a narcotics certified slovakian import and ddr/czech male who has obedience, SAR, agility, rally, bh, I can't remember what titles..
She would most likely not do well in a couch potatoe environment and/or a couple of mere walks during the day..
This was my recently departed heart dog, male , Dodge who was out of the same DDR lines as Masi, but his mom was straight american show lines,,the "perfect" dog but unreplaceable
And this was my other recently departed heart dog, Sami who was also czech lines..
Dachshunds are the same -- form over function, unfortunately. You might have a dog that CH in conformation but it's patellas are shot and it can't jump 6 inches to save it's life.
When you put it like that, Xandra, I can understand the comparison.
I do feel that many years ago when the breed first came to this country, GSDs certaintly weren't show type dogs, but they still had a good reputation and did a lot for people with their working ability. Pit Bulls were always fighting dogs in this country, which was STILL illegal hundreds of years ago with the old dog men or whatev. I don't really consider them respectable, because dog fighting is still disgusting and inhumane, regardless IMHO. The fact that dog fighting has always and still attracts very unsavory people, and that Pit Bulls are historically THE fighting dog, I don't see German Shepherds being doomed to nearly as much misery and bigotry as that particular breed.
Not necessarily. Many people used the dogs for hunting dogs, not fighting. You had your select group that was fighting them but not every single ABPT stems from strictly fighting lines.