What sort of training techniques do they use at the Seeing Eye?

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#1
I've always been really curious about how they train seeing eye dogs, but haven't really been able to find a lot of information about the type of training the dogs go through. One thing I'm particularly interested in is whether or not they use corrections, or if it's only positive reinforcement based training. Does anyone know or have any resources that really elaborate on the training seeing eye dogs go through?
 
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#2
There are several different places that train seeing eye/service dogs. It would depend on the org I guess. Some people train their dog themselves. We have several people here who have service dogs that they trained themselves.

;)
 

Romy

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#3
Hopefully Lizzybeth will see this and reply. She works for an organization that trains hearing dogs, and would know the answer to your question. From what I understand, there is more than one organization that trains seeing eye dogs specifically and they each have their own training regimen and methods they follow.
 

CharlieDog

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Well, s/he seems to be asking specifically about The Seeing Eye. Which is only one org. "Seeing Eye Dog" is a dog actually from "The Seeing Eye" program specifically. A guide dog can be from any program/organization (though, you do want to pick a good one)

I can't comment on their techniques though, as I have no clue.
 

lizzybeth727

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Hopefully Lizzybeth will see this and reply. She works for an organization that trains hearing dogs, and would know the answer to your question.
LOL, hearing dog training and guide dog training are not the same thing. :)

Yes, different organizations have slightly different training styles, though there is a much larger difference in service dog training than guide dog training. Guide dog trainers actually receive a Guide Dog Training Instructor accreditation when they complete their apprenticeship. This is a national certification, and most guide dog schools will accept it with new trainers; so if I complete my apprenticeship and obtain my GDTI certificate from one organization, I could most likely transfer to another organization as a full instructor, rather than start over as an apprentice. This is not the case in most service dog training organizations.

The main difference in training styles, I think, comes during the puppy raising period. Some organizations use clicker training with puppy raisers; some use positive reinforcement without clickers; and some start out with positive reinforcement but move to more punishment-based methods as the puppies grow up and "learn" the cues. I've seen puppy raisers using choke collars on adolescent dogs; I also know of organizations who would never use collar corrections on any dog.

I had a long conversation with a GDTI about how her organization trains guide dogs. She said that in the beginning of guide work, they set up training scenarios so that the dog cannot fail, and then reinforce the dog for doing the right behaviors. For example, the trainer stops at the curb and when the dog stops with her, she reinforces. Later in training, as the dog becommes patterned to know what to do, they gradually make it more real-life: the trainer does not stop at that curb, and if the dog does not stop the trainer "trips" and falls, which startles the dog; the dog will then remember to stop at the curb next time. At this particular organization, they don't give the dog corrections for doing the wrong behavior, but they do make the trips and falls more dramatic as needed. If they've chosen the right dog for the job, the dog should be sensitive enough to his handler and perceptive enough of his environment, to be able to catch on pretty quickly. Trainers continue reinforcing good behaviors, eventually of course going to a variable schedule of reinforcement so that the dog can work for long stretches without needing a treat reward.

I've personally seen this training, and as long as the trainer knows what she's doing and doesn't push the dog farther than he's ready, it does work and it does not traumatize the dog or harm him in any way.


And yeah, The Seeing Eye is a specific guide dog training school; I think it might be the oldest in the US. "Seeing eye dog" is a brand name, it's a dog specifically from The Seeing Eye. "Guide dog" is a dog from any training background who does guide work for someone who's visually impaired.

(While we're on the subject: "Service Dog" is a dog who is trained to work with someone with a mobility disability, such as in a wheelchair; or someone with a seizure disorder. "Hearing dog" is a dog who is trained to work with someone who is deaf or hard of hearing. "Assistance Dog" is the term for any service, hearing, or guide dog. In other words, a guide dog is not a service dog; a hearing dog is not a service dog; but guide, hearing, and service dogs are all assistance dogs.)
 

Kayla

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#6
I'm unsure about what methods the seeing eye uses exclusively but I do know that thanks to the hard work of Michelle Pouliot from Dog Guides for the Blind which has two campus's one in San Rafeal, California and one in Oregon that many seeing eye dogs are know trained via mainly positive reinforcement principals and specifically by clicker training.

Michelle's school has become a pioneer for bringing in clicker training and they have the results over the past five years to back up it's worth.

At Clicker Expo two years ago I was fortunate enough to attend her lecture about clicker training seeing eye dogs and there was actual video footage from two blind fold tests where dogs at x point in their training are taken with a blindfolded handler (with sighted handler following near by) to test where the dog is at with it's work.

The first video clip is from 6-8 years ago, before the school brought in clicker training principals. The dogs are good and usually hit their mark on the curb, but it's not very percise and they certainly miss it alot.

The next video is from 3-4 years ago, after the same amount of time in training as the first video but all dogs in the test were exclusively clicker trained without correction on their curb work. The results were dramatically different. The dogs body langauge was much more loose and they were precise with targetting the curb, too boot no dog's missed their curb.

Michelle was a fantastic speaker and really spoke about a more demanding environment for the seeing eye dogs to work in compared to 40-50 years ago challenged them to change their training methods.

A few other cool things they were teaching via clicker without corrections was overhead obstacle avoidance where the dogs were marked/rewarded for stopping at an overhead obstacle. As the dogs advanced they would still stop and be marked/rewarded for that decision even as the obstacle was raised far above them, where the dog could easily still have fit under, but the handler couldn't have.

They also taught the dogs to back up if a vehicle came at them from the side.

Lastly she spoke about using the clicker to teach "intelligent disobedience" where a dog would be marked/rewarded for refusing a command when an obstacle such as a car, low overhead obstacle, etc was in the way.

Intelligent disobedince by far was my most favourite thing to hear her speak about. It's why I love clicker training, because it creates dogs that are confident in their decisions and are so versitile in what they can learn.
 

lizzybeth727

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#7
Wow, Kayla, wish I could've gone to that seminar. Guide work has always fascinated me (though not enough to actually want to get into it... I still think service work is more interesting).

Michelle was a fantastic speaker and really spoke about a more demanding environment for the seeing eye dogs to work in compared to 40-50 years ago challenged them to change their training methods.
How interesting, I never thought about that.

Intelligent disobedince by far was my most favourite thing to hear her speak about. It's why I love clicker training, because it creates dogs that are confident in their decisions and are so versitile in what they can learn.
Intellingent disobedience is IMO the main thing that separates guide dog training from service dog training. Service dogs don't have to do intelligent disobedience, they're pretty much always attached to their person out in public and there's just no reason for it. So the temperments of service dogs versus guide dogs are very different - guide dogs have to be more independent and aware of the environment, while service dogs have to just do as they're told without wondering "why."

Hearing dogs, on the other hand, do have to do intelligent disobedience (though to a lesser degree than guide dogs, I think): if their person asks them to "stay" and they hear a sound, they have to break the stay to alert to the sound. They have to quit EVERYTHING they're doing to alert to a sound. So their temperments are also going to be quite different than service dogs' temperments. And the core principles of hearing dog training are actually very similar to those of guide dog training.
 
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Wow, Kayla, wish I could've gone to that seminar. Guide work has always fascinated me (though not enough to actually want to get into it... I still think service work is more interesting).


How interesting, I never thought about that.


Intellingent disobedience is IMO the main thing that separates guide dog training from service dog training. Service dogs don't have to do intelligent disobedience, they're pretty much always attached to their person out in public and there's just no reason for it. So the temperments of service dogs versus guide dogs are very different - guide dogs have to be more independent and aware of the environment, while service dogs have to just do as they're told without wondering "why."
Intelligent disobedience was really what I was interested in, and the level of independence that needs to be taught to the dogs as opposed to other service dogs. Does anyone know what the requirements are for getting a dog certified as a service dog? I spoke with one girl who turned her pet dog into a service dog, and I was surprised to learn that she did all the training herself and didn't need the help of a professional trainer or service dog organisation.

I used to live in the same town as the Seeing Eye, and would always see them out and about town training the dogs. Sometimes I found myself just happening to have to go in the same store as them, just because I was so curious to see what they were doing! I always wanted to ask them loads of questions but didn't want to disturb their work.

Kayla, that seminar sounds really fascinating, I thought clicker training would be used for intelligent disobedience.

Another thing that would be really interesting to know about would be the training techniques in the mid 20th century compared to the training techniques now, and how the guide dogs differed then. I know positive reinforcement training wasn't nearly as popular back then, I wonder how they taught intelligent disobedience?
 

lizzybeth727

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#9
Intelligent disobedience was really what I was interested in, and the level of independence that needs to be taught to the dogs as opposed to other service dogs.
That type of independence can't be taught (or at least not in the time frame that guide dog trainers have), that's why it's so important to choose the right dog for the job, that the dog has just exactly the right temperment.

If you've got the right dog, intellignet disobedience isn't too hard. It's just teaching a dog that one behavior outweighs another behavior. It's like if you tell your dog to stay, and teach him that he's not to get up unless you say "free." Then, with a bit of practice, you can teach him that even if you cue him to come, he's still not supposed to break the stay unless you say "free."

With guide dogs and hearing dogs, it's the same idea, except that the cues come from the environment. A low hanging branch is the cue to stop. A curb is the cue to block your person. For hearing dogs, the doorbell is the cue to alert. These cues trump all other cues.

Does anyone know what the requirements are for getting a dog certified as a service dog?
The first requirement for having a service dog is that you have to have a disability, and the dog has to be trained to do specific tasks that mitigate that disability. For example, a specific task for a service dog would be retrieving dropped items. A specific task for a guide dog would be finding the restroom. Just "being there" does not constitute a specific task; so if someone just needs their dog because they like having their dog with them, that dog is not technically a service dog.

Past that, it depends a lot on your state's requirements. You could contact a service or guide dog training organization in your state and get more details from them.

Another thing that would be really interesting to know about would be the training techniques in the mid 20th century compared to the training techniques now, and how the guide dogs differed then. I know positive reinforcement training wasn't nearly as popular back then, I wonder how they taught intelligent disobedience?
Instead of rewarding the dog for doing the correct behavior, they punished the dog for doing the wrong behavior. Same principles, really.
 

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