What should I feed her?

[RD]

Eve is doing really well on raw (prey model) and Innova EVO, but her stools are gross - way too gooey and loose for my liking. I'd try adding more bone to her diet but I don't want her to have too much calcium. Canned pumpkin hasn't done much for her.

I don't like her having loose stool at this age. For one, she's a baby and I can't imagine it'd be good for her to have the runs so often, and also.. really selfish here... I don't want her to have an accident in the house with that kind of poo! It'd seep into the carpet. Bleh.

I'm going to order some probiotics and enzymes, and if her stools don't firm up after a week or two with the supplements I'm going to switch her to kibble. At least until she's more mature and can handle raw better. I don't really like worrying about her stool, and I'm concerned about her growth if she gets too much or too little calcium. She looks great now, but I've never raised a pup on raw before and I don't want to ruin her by doing so.

So, any suggestions for kibble? I need to get an idea of what brands would work, and what I can get around here. It needs to be a top-quality food, very little or no grain if possible, and suitable for puppies.

(For the record, Eve is a 10 week old Border Collie, weighing 8-9lbs)

 

[jess2416]

Here's a list of grain free foods
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=grain_free

 

[squirtsmom]

Timberwolf is the bomb.

 

[ihartgonzo]

What % are made up of RMB's in her diet? Does she get bone daily or does she have all muscle meat days? Do you mix kibble with Raw days? When my dogs eat kibble really soon after/before eating Raw, their BM's are a lot grosser than usual. I fed Fozzie modified prey model from 9 weeks - now, and he has had perfect odorless BM's.

I would ask her breeder about it... see if she recommends upping the bone a little.

and, if you do feel it's the kibble, Timberwolf really is awesome!

 

[showpug]

I am going to try my pugs on the Timberwolf Organics Wild & Natural which is grain free. It's okay if they don't have it in your area because they ship off their website for free. It's suitable for puppies too.

 

[Wiggle Butt]

I think the calcium issue is really only an issue for synthetic calcium in kibble. I know plenty of people who have raised large breed puppies on raw with no problem. I raised Buck on it since 7 weeks and payed no attention to whether or not he was getting too much bone (unless if his poops were too loose or he was constipated) and his hips are fine - OFA preliminary good. When he had more bone one day, his poops would turn white - therefore, he was excreting the calcium that he didn't need.

In all honesty I would think it was the EVO or not getting enough bone. I know a lot of people have said EVO is too rich for some dogs.

 

[Herschel]

Sounds like the EVO curse to me...

I've fed Canidae All Life Stages since Herschel was 3 months old and I've had fantastic results. There is an entire thread devoted to the effects of Canidae on creating fantastic stools: http://www.chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45951

 

[juliefurry]

Wasn't Eve fed entirely raw when you first got her? Maybe she just isn't tolerating the Evo, if that's the case. I use the timberwolf organic Dakota Bison on Holly and she does really well. Her poop is solid, and small. This is the only food, besides Solid Gold Wolfcub, that I have been able to keep Holly's stool firm. I like the Timberwolf organic, but IMO they don't have really good customer relations. I have emailed them 3 times to ask for ingredients for a couple different formulas and have yet to get one response back.

 

[RD]

Thanks guys! I will look into Timberwolf if she continues to have bad stools.

Erica- about 60% of her daily intake is RMBs. On a typical day she will get a pork or beef neck bone, a cut beef rib (that's more of a meat/fat meal though, she can't chew off any of the bone) a teeeeny bit of pureed organ meat, and a bit of spare muscle meat if she ate a lot of the bone off the neck bones. She was on rabbit at the breeder's, too, but I'm having a hard time finding it here for less than $3.50/lb.

I haven't been giving her much chicken. I might try letting her munch on a drumstick tonight and see how she does. She can crunch down all the bone on one of those, wheras with the beef and pork necks, she can't (she keeps herself busy trying, though!)

My vet told me that puppies can't excrete the calcium they don't need like adult dogs do. Was that only true for really, really young pups? That's what I've been worried about.

She ate EVO occasionally at her breeder's and did fine on it, but I do think she's been getting more of it here than she was there. I'll try giving her only raw for the next few days, and see how she does. I'd love to feed all raw, but I'm just really a chicken about messing up her growth. :-/ Maybe I worry too much. lol

 

[Zoom]

What does your breeder say? If she's been feeding raw to her dogs, she would be the first person I would ask for advice.

 

[deb27]

I also just started Timberwolf Organics and wow, the poops are so small and perfectly firm. So far so good.

 

[showpug]

Wasn't Eve fed entirely raw when you first got her? Maybe she just isn't tolerating the Evo, if that's the case. I use the timberwolf organic Dakota Bison on Holly and she does really well. Her poop is solid, and small. This is the only food, besides Solid Gold Wolfcub, that I have been able to keep Holly's stool firm. I like the Timberwolf organic, but IMO they don't have really good customer relations. I have emailed them 3 times to ask for ingredients for a couple different formulas and have yet to get one response back.

What ingredients do you need? They are all listed on their website.

 

[RD]

Zoom, I've talked to her at length about it and she's not 100% sure. The puppy she kept is having rather loose stool as well. It's not giardia, coccidia or anything like that, and I'm positive it isn't anything as serious as parvo. She gets her second parvo shot on Tuesday and that always gave my dogs loose stool, so I imagine that'll exacerbate the issue.

Her breeder's been feeding raw for about 6 years but she's never raised a puppy on raw, so this is experimental for her as well.

 

[Zoom]

Ahh, gotcha. I figured you would have already, but threw that out there anyway.

I guess try the kibble and see if it helps? I was going to say that maybe the different sources the meat came from, regional differences anyway, may have had something to do with it?

Ask Redyre what she thinks. She's raised pups on raw before.

 

[juliefurry]

What does your breeder say? If she's been feeding raw to her dogs, she would be the first person I would ask for advice.

DUH! That's probably the best advice is to ask the breeder and tell her what is going on. She would probably be able to help you the best.

 

[SisMorphine]

When my puppy was having loose stool issues I switched her onto California Natural for a couple of days to firm up her stool a bit, then onto the Innova. Is she on Innova or Innova Evo? The Evo may be too rich for her.

edited to fix my thoughts . . .

 

[doberkim]

have you actually had a fecal sent to the lab to KNOw its not giardia, coccidia, etc?

how much bone is she actually eating? from what you describe, with ribs and necks, theres not a lot of bone THERE that she can eat, and then add in the extra organs and muscle meat - thats not much bone at all.

 

[ihartgonzo]

Well... being that RMB's are bones that are actually crunched up and eaten, it doesn't sound like she's getting much bone. Because she isn't eating most of the bone (even Gonzo doesn't consume most of a beef rib or neck bone), that would almost count as a diet of pure muscle meat.

I would trade the beef ribs for chicken thighs, drumsticks, wings, backs, etc. Fozzie ate lots of chicken & turkey RMB's at her age, too, because they just have those tiny puppy teeth that can't work on bigger bones yet. Try adding more puppy-edible raw meaty bones into her diet, and I think you'll see instant results. Cornish game hens are also a great size for pups!

 

[RD]

Doberkim, not yet. I'm going to have a fecal done anyway when she gets her second distemper/parvo. What makes me think it isn't giardia or coccidia is the fact that it isn't genuine, watery diarrhea. It's just loose stool. I can't be entirely sure though, so I'm having it done.

She's probably eating about 10% of the bone on the neck bones. She usually spends about an hour chewing on them.

I gave her some of a chicken drumstick tonight. She definitely had an easier time crunching the bone. We'll see how she does with that. I never fed drumsticks to Dakota because he doesn't chew, but Eve is GREAT about chewing everything at least a few times before she gulps it down.

Cornish game hens are a good idea, I'll see if I can get some at the store next time I go.

 

[Red_ACD_for_me]

Eve is doing really well on raw (prey model) and Innova EVO, but her stools are gross - way too gooey and loose for my liking. I'd try adding more bone to her diet but I don't want her to have too much calcium. Canned pumpkin hasn't done much for her.

I don't like her having loose stool at this age. For one, she's a baby and I can't imagine it'd be good for her to have the runs so often, and also.. really selfish here... I don't want her to have an accident in the house with that kind of poo! It'd seep into the carpet. Bleh.

I'm going to order some probiotics and enzymes, and if her stools don't firm up after a week or two with the supplements I'm going to switch her to kibble. At least until she's more mature and can handle raw better. I don't really like worrying about her stool, and I'm concerned about her growth if she gets too much or too little calcium. She looks great now, but I've never raised a pup on raw before and I don't want to ruin her by doing so.

So, any suggestions for kibble? I need to get an idea of what brands would work, and what I can get around here. It needs to be a top-quality food, very little or no grain if possible, and suitable for puppies.

(For the record, Eve is a 10 week old Border Collie, weighing 8-9lbs)

RD, if you want to try a great probiotic get this stuff. I just started Caiza on it because of his sensitive tummy its called Culturelle!

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