what does all this stuff mean?

Discussion in 'The Breeding Ground' started by juliefurry, Sep 18, 2006.

  1. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    Ok, I have been directed to a couple different bernese mountain dog breeders in the surrounding states and we found one that we like but I don't know what all the stuff means pertaining to testing. He said that they ofa all their dogs at 2 years and then penn hip all their puppies at six months? He also has a 2 year health guarantee agianst defects. I'm so confused because I know when we got Lily the woman just told us that the dogs had their hips and everything checked and showed us some paperwork. So I'm not really sure what testing I should look for them to have. He did say their eyes were tested as well though too and they passed. We are thinking about being put on a waiting list for a puppy from him as the waiting list now, for pet quality, is already 2 years long. I wasn't sure what you guys thought though. I talked to him over the phone and he seemed to really know the bernese breed, he has no website though :( so I can't direct you guys to a website for help. He only lives 2 and 1/2 hours away. I don't know if it'd be worth taking a drive up there to look around before we get put on his waiting list or just getting put on the list and if we don't like his place we back out.
     
  2. showpug

    showpug New Member

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    Penn Hip testing is better than OFA in my opinion and more accurate.

    Read this :http://www.canismajor.com/dog/pennhip1.html#Comp

    What's nice is that it's not determined by a human's opinion like OFA is, so there is less room for human error.

    As far as the eyes go, you can check to see results via this website :http://www.vmdb.org/cerf.html

    The breeder should be able to provide you with a CERF number or a way of looking up the parents on the CERF website.

    I would ask about his breeding lines and how often he sees cancer in his lines. A good breeder will be open and honest about what health problems have come up in their program.

    Does he show his dogs? You can always attend a local dog show to find breeders as well...
     
  3. MomOf7

    MomOf7 Evil Kitty taco eater

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    Thats very good! OFA is more recognized than penn hip but penn hip is a good determiner of good hips. http://www.pennhip.org/ http://offa.org/
    All that sounds about right. I like to give a couple months to get the tests done for clients so mine is 26mo.

    I would go and check it out. Ask for copies or ask to see the certifications on the parents. Talk to them about thier breeding program and where they are headed with it. Theres alot more but I am too lazy and I know someone else will chime in!:p
     
  4. Gallien Jacks

    Gallien Jacks New Member

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    Great posts guys.

    Personally I think you need to look into the breed more, if this is the breed you really want then research it, it will make it easier for you to tell the bad breeders from the good if you know what you are looking for, study the breed standard and learn the faults go to shows meet good breeders and ask for advice, then be prepared to be put on a long waiting list and to travel for the write dog. Good dogs do not come to us easily they have to be worked for. Be prepared to answer a load of questions from the breeder. and above all else follow your head not your heart. You need to be happy with your breeder they should be there to support you through all. Good luck on your search
     
  5. wolfsoul

    wolfsoul I Love My Belgian

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    I would get put on the waiting list but keep looking around for better. Honestly a two year health guarantee isn't very good. You can look on the OFA website for proof that they do their dogs hips and elbows, but it's doubtful you will find their CERF results on there as most breeders don't submit the results (I don't). You can ask them to see the papers personally.
     
  6. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    Ok, I will talk to him agian tomorrow, because I need to have Mark look at the information that I have found. He said that he has never had dysplasia in his line but I did not ask about that though. I would like to find a breeder close by (in the neighboring states) because we want to be able to travel to their facility to see where the puppies where raised and the parent(s). he said he does have the paperwork for all health tests and I will be able to see that when I go to see the litter of puppies (not pick up but when I go to pick out my puppy). He did ask tons of questions like why I want one, what I plan to do with it, what I plan to feed, my veterinarian (for references), and tons of questions that I can't remember all of them. I asked him for references, and he said that his dogs don't go to the show ring but do work. I asked him why he breeds his dogs and what he plans on accomplishing with each breeding (his answer was to better his breed). He also told me that there is one dog he bred where the owners are looking into showing. We do still have a lot of researching to do on the breed and breeders but so far he is the best we have found. We found one that didn't do any testing and only offered a 1 year guarantee. We are waiting for more answers from another breeder in a different state. I found these breeders from the bernese mountain dog club of america. I contacted one person who is into the breed in my state and they no longer bred but they suggested these two breeders. We still have 2 years to think about it but that will give us plenty of time to research the breed and different breeders as well. Mark still has to make sure that he really does want one of these dogs. They seem like a good match for him (atleast to me) but I want him to do more research and make sure this is the breed he wants.
     
  7. PoodleMommy

    PoodleMommy Yorkie Love

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    If he seems good, get on the list you have nothing to lose.

    Spend a year or so researching, talking to other breeders, and asking more questions. If he still looks like the best, you are only a year away from having one, if he doesnt sound good after all, get off the list and you didnt lose anything.

    ELissa
     
  8. MomOf7

    MomOf7 Evil Kitty taco eater

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    How do I explain this.......
    Every litter has a percentage rate of displaysia. Excellent rating hips to Excellent rating hip parents have 5.4 percent of that litter will be displastic.
    Its very possible that no one got a diagnosis but one of the dogs/pups had mild displaysia.

    Here is OFA statistics on Berneses.
    Their rank is 49 There has only been 695 dogs ever tested out of that 695 16.5 percent had excellent rated hips and 16.5 percent had displaysia.

    Look at this
    http://offa.org/hipstatbreed.html?view=2

    This is why his statement worries me. There are so few tested how can his statement be accurate? Although alot of people do not report HD to OFA.
    I most certainly do and would. I have had one case of HD and it was severe.
    I have no problem making those things public. The more information we have the better knowledge we gain. JMO.
     
  9. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    Problems can arise in any pups no matter how much the parents pass with flying colors .
     
  10. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    Thanks Momof7. I will still look into breeders but so far, just from my gut opinion, this guy is the best. I am still waiting back to hear from one more breeder. We aren't going to get a puppy though for atleast two years no matter what because I want to be sure this is the right breed for us.
     
  11. MomOf7

    MomOf7 Evil Kitty taco eater

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    Oh I know!! The litter the pup I had that came down with severe HD in her 3 gen pedigree 26 out of the 30 dogs had OFA's with a rating of Good or better.
    You never know!
    I am glad you are doing your research. Im very excited to see what you both end up choosing!
     
  12. bubbatd

    bubbatd Moderator

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    Of the over 100 pups in 40 years of my own litters or siring to all Good or better OFA there's been 2 .... and even that to me is too many !
     
  13. moe

    moe New Member

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    I would also try and find out from other breeders if this particular breeder has a good reputation, maybe contact the breed rescue or shelters local to him and see if any of his pups/dogs have ended up there.

    Mo
     
  14. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    We he was referred to me by another breeder. I talked to a breeder in Indiana (well they used to breed) and they suggested the two breeders that I am talking to now.
     
  15. ~Dixie's_Mom~

    ~Dixie's_Mom~ ♥Chloe & Violet♥

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    It sounds like you're taking all the right precautions! Kudos! I hope you find the right breeder and dog! :D
     
  16. juliefurry

    juliefurry Rusty but Trusty

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    I just realized that I am spelling things wrong. Sorry, my brain is not really working right now. If things don't make sense just ask.
     
  17. shadowfacedanes

    shadowfacedanes *Biter*

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    What all is he testing for? Hips are important, but not the only thing that's important. I would also see if he has tested for heart, thyroid, eyes, etc. Berners have a lot of health problems and good hips aren't going to save the day if your pup is burdened with a bad heart. :(

    Also, as someone else mentioned, is he active in showing? Are his breeding stock titled? I know it seems petty to look for that to some, but to me it is a good sign that they are concerned with breeding dogs that adhere closely to the standard.

    Good luck on your quest. They are amazing and wonderful dogs but be prepared for the drooling and the fur. :) And the being leaned on and sat on. And they do not tolerate heat well at all (just wanted to add that - I'm sure you know already, I'm just trying to throw in everything I can think of) :)
     

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