What do you think of this breeder?

[Cheza]

One of those nice flashy webpages... their dogs are OFA'd and most seem to be titled in Schutzhund or in a rare case obedience, but they have an awful lot of litters on the ground at the same time. 5 year puppy guarantee on hips, heart, etc... Again though, a LOT of dogs and a LOT of litters on the ground within days of eachother... Very odd.

I'm not considering a shepherd puppy at the moment (hubby is interested in Schutzhund so I was doing a little research on the sport and the dogs) but I just wanted to see what others though of the breeder.

http://www.worldclassgsd.com/

 

[Bob4eva]

Seem a LOT of litters per year.Most reliable breeders only breed once or twice a year.Seems a lil' fishy.
But they do show a lot too,so im not so sure...

Can you go and visit them,check em out thouroghly.

gO cRaBs Go!
Pass it on.

 

[PWCorgi]

I don't like how all you have to do is put down a deposit to reserve a puppy. I agree with too many litters.

 

[ravennr]

Too many litters for an extremely popular breed (with huge numbers as it is, even holding record at one time, if not still). OFA and ScH titles are all nice and dandy, but that doesn't mean they need to breed them so often. People aren't really in need of puppies supplied in wholesale like that, yeesh.

 

[ravennr]

And, there is some roaching in a lot of those dogs. Not any that looks really horrendous like some I've seen, but it is roaching none-the-less. Not something I know that any GSD enthusiast really likes to see in any dog.

 

[noludoru]

WAY too many dogs. Four or five titled studs, one non-titled on :yikes: three or so future studs and three retired. Not to mention a gazillion bitches. Small scale puppymill, IMO. How could any one person or family give ALL these dogs enough love and care? Many of them must be put in kennels, and I bet they have staff. It's something near 30 dogs...

I have a few questions, and I hope a GSD expert can jump in here. Why do their dogs look like that? Maybe it's how they are posed, but they look abnormal. And there is definitely roaching, as Raven said.. they are practically hunchbacks. Is this b/c of the pose? All the GSDs I see are backyard bred and rather square and lean.

And there's a huge variation in type. I find it hard to believe all of these dogs are titled in show... their differences in heads alone raised my eyebrows.

 

[Cheza]

I don't know about the roaching, but since the titles aren't in conformation that may explain the difference in type...?
I don't know much about GSD's

 

[Romy]

Those dogs are from west German show lines. Whereas in America, dogs have those horrible angulated hips, German show people are selecting heavily for exaggerated roaching. This is an interesting link showing the different body shapes and where they developed, as well as offshoots of the GSD breed.

http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html

A copy of the German GSD breed standard.

http://www.kerschberger.com/GSDbreedstandard.htm

To my understanding, the roaching was developed because it gives the dogs extra power in vertical leaps. It also unbalances other aspects of their physique, but that is why there is so much variation in the breed. So many lines are used for so many different kinds of work.

Anyway, it looks like those folks have some nice west german dogs. I would check with the AKC and see if they are in good standing with that many litters being produced. I was checking out a borzoi breeder who produces a lot of litters, and it turns out that she was suspended from the AKC because of falsifying pedigrees. :yikes:

Personally, I would go with a breeder who produces less litters, with a focused goal for each pairing they do (i.e. we bred these two dogs to make puppies who have sound temperaments, great health, and strong drive for XXXXX dog sport). And then pick a puppy who was made specifically for what you want to use it for.

The ONLY really legitimate reason I can think for them making that many puppies, if their motivation isn't money, is if they are breeding and training dogs for law enforcement, service dog type positions. Within programs geared towards producing dogs of that type, you will often get only one or two pups in a litter with all of the correct and needed things to make a working dog, i.e. temperament is just right, drive is just right, physical stamina, etc. so you have to produce quite a few litters with lots of extras to fill the quota of police dogs. I don't know if that is what they are doing at all though. Something to check out.

 

[Cheza]

Great info, and very interesting reads you have there! Thanks for posting all of that

I think if/when the time comes we would go with another breeder, the amount of dogs on the premises just seems odd to me, unless as you stated, they are possibly involved in police protection work.

 

[Romy]

Good idea. Usually people who are involved in police work advertise it, as they are very proud of the amount of work it goes into to breed, train, and produce a dog like that.

You may want to look into Czech border patrol lines if you are interested in Schutzhund, though keep in mind that those dogs are VERY drivey, and have tons of energy. They need to be able to work for hours every day and not get tired of their job. Still though, I think that of the shepherds I have met they have some of the more stable temperaments, and best health. The hospital where my husband works has several Czech dogs that do security there, they are very incredibly sensitive. He was working with a mentally unstable patient once, and the handler and dog were right there with him and the nurse. The dog was watchful, but very mellow. Then the patient suddenly jumped up and raised his arm to hit the nurse. Before the handler or anybody could react the dog leapt up on the bed between them, and simply stood there and growled in the patient's face. He gave them enough time for the handler and my husband to wrestle the patient down into the bed and put him in restraints. Robert was very impressed with the dog's judgement, and self control. He never bit or tried to bite the patient, and was very brave putting himself between the nurse and an attacker. He also recognized that his handler and Robert had the patient under control and didn't push things any further once they intervened.

These dogs are awesome in that they love visiting the children's wing and spending time with the kids getting petted and loved on. I can talk to one of the handlers next time I see one and find out where exactly their dogs come from.

 

[fillyone]

Actually from what I saw the backs aren't roached. A roach means that there is a discernible dip in front of the wither. Are the backs more 'rounded' than many of us are used to? Yep. Much like in the American show ring the gate is highly rewarded in the German ring as well. These dogs have that gait.

As far as the number of dogs and litters, it's not always a bad thing to have more than one or two litters a year. It also doesn't mean that the pups don't get all that they need. This kennel is not a puppy mill or BYB in any way, shape or form.

Are they the type of breeder most of us that frequent this board would buy from? Probably not but if you wanted to go to the show ring and be successful, this might be the type of breeder you'd want.

Do I know these folks? Nope, just my $0.02 as I have looked at more GSD websites than I can count over the last few years

 

[fillyone]

And as far as the workingline dog, be even more careful in your choice of breeders as there are more and more BYBs breeding these GSDs now than ever before. And remember, they can be difficult

 

[noludoru]

Romy, thanks for those links.. wow.. what a great read!!!!

 

[Cheza]

Thanks for all the info guys! I'm carefully storing it away for future use

 

[sheltiekatie]

i don't like when people put a max amount of litters a yr that make a breeder reuptable. . think of things that could come into play
* Bitches coming into season early/late
* Wanting to not wait to breed a litter because the stud is getting older/neutered/moving out of the country
* Once in a lifetime oppurtunity to lease a bitch you like

Which could add up, so I do understand a few more litters a year.. but this site wont load ocrrectly on my computer so I can't tell how many litters they do have.

 

[lakotasong]

Show mill or working mill. Or a combo. Two thumbs waaaaaaaay down here.

 

[Miakoda]

Show mill or working mill. Or a combo. Two thumbs waaaaaaaay down here.

A peddler is a peddler is a peddler.

Just because someone seems to have all the titles and whatnot, doesnt' make them a reputable breeder. It seems they do it more for selling dogs at better prices than for any other reason.