Westminster Malinois (best of breed)

[release the hounds]

anybody see it? :yikes:

I did watch a small portion of the herding group, just because and it reminded me of our showline Mal thread. Did anyone else see it? The Best of Breed Mal had her tail tucked so far up it was practically sticking thru her abdomen and coming back out her spine. When going around the ring her eyes were wide and darting everywhere and the handler made a slight mistep and in that instant she looked like she was going to flee. Had the collar not been pulled high and tight around her neck, i'm sure she would have.

That bitch needed to be freed from whatever demons where in her head. It was sad to me, watching a fine working breed look so skittish and afraid, and most definitely not happy.

She had what looked like toed in front legs and a very narrow chest and snipey head. Quite an exemplary specimen i must say (insert sarcasm).

I wonder how many puppies she'll produce as the best of breed in westminster?????? probably more than my friends MRIII and FRIII stud will sire.

 

[Tahla9999]

Every now and then show dogs have their ''off'' days from what I heard. I've saw a beagle reacting like that on another show once before.

 

[release the hounds]

i know it's just an excuse, but assuming it was just an "off day". Does it make sense that a dog on it's off day should have won the supposed Best of Breed for that day? just wondering. and even though Mal's aren't known for having hard angles or big heads, how does an 'off day" account for a particularly snipey head with turned in feet and such a narrow chest? did the dog forget to inhale?

 

[Tahla9999]

i know it's just an excuse, but assuming it was just an "off day". Does it make sense that a dog on it's off day should have won the supposed Best of Breed for that day? just wondering. and even though Mal's aren't known for having hard angles or big heads, how does an 'off day" account for a particularly snipey head with turned in feet and such a narrow chest? did the dog forget to inhale?

Who knows. Maybe the dog was more calm during the Best of Breed, then got spook during the selection of the best herder.:dunno:

 

[Promethean]

This was just another example of why I (for the most part) despise the whole show fancy. Any malinois that showed this type of temperament would not even be allowed in the ring.... It wouldn't matter if it was the most perfect and beautiful animal ever put on earth. The people pay lip service to the 'original intent' of the breed, but when the chips come down it's all hot air.

 

[corgipower]

Who knows. Maybe the dog was more calm during the Best of Breed, then got spook during the selection of the best herder.:dunno:

In the malinois breed ring, that dog was the spookiest. The tail was tucked even more in the breed ring than it was in the group ring. And there certainly were malis in the breed ring with more chest and better head...There also was one that looked more like a whippet than a mali.

 

[Romy]

How was she compared to the other mals in breed? If that was what the judge put up, her competition can't have been very awesome.

That's the biggest flaw with AKC showing I see, is one dog out of breed is going to win best of breed. It doesn't matter if they are all crap and don't deserve to be put up, one will. It doesn't matter if they are all amazing dogs that day and most do deserve points, only one will get it.

Then again, once in a while a judge has an agenda. They aren't supposed to, but politics do creep in. I once saw a judge put up a very ugly out of standard collie puppy over the #1 rough collie in the nation. Either he didn't know squat about collies, or he had a friend competing for the herding group win and wanted to cut down their competition.

Now, if that mal female placed in the herding group with that kind of behavior, that would make me mad.

And not every winning dog goes on to breed, for various reasons. Uno, the best in show at Westminster (last year?) ended up neutered by his owner. So calm yourself. It's not a guarantee she'll be populating the earth with nervous puppies any time soon. When and if that day comes, just remember that those dogs aren't mals any more than the American Hocktrotters people try to pass off as GSDs.

 

[Romy]

In the malinois breed ring, that dog was the spookiest. The tail was tucked even more in the breed ring than it was in the group ring. And there certainly were malis in the breed ring with more chest and better head...There also was one that looked more like a whippet than a mali.

Posted at the same time. That sucks. I wonder what the judge was thinking. I wish they had to give written evals for AKC like they do with IABCA. At least then we would know.

 

[AGonzalez]

This was just another example of why I (for the most part) despise the whole show fancy. Any malinois that showed this type of temperament would not even be allowed in the ring.... It wouldn't matter if it was the most perfect and beautiful animal ever put on earth. The people pay lip service to the 'original intent' of the breed, but when the chips come down it's all hot air.

Exactly my thoughts. Anyone who defends a judge putting up an obviously incorrect dog...just ugh.

I didn't watch it so I can't say, but a Mali shouldn't be nervous. I'd rather have a bold and UGLY dog, than a pretty and nervous one.

 

[release the hounds]

There were a couple dogs in there that didn't look like they had half bad temp, but then there isn't much of a test in a breed ring, but there were dogs that "looked" better than her. By a lot IMO, and it wasn't close. That dog was a spook and there was no hiding that fact.

But now she's the Best of Breed at Westminster, how much do you think her puppies are going to go for?

 

[Grab]

Not all breeders rasie the price of pups from a Westminster dog. Aesop's breeder has been several times and the price does not change

 

[Laurelin]

Okay I didn't see the mal or watch the show. I did look at win pics but you can't tell temperament from those.

Anyways, I've been to a lot of AKC shows. No not Westminster but average shows and I really rarely saw dogs with distinct temperament issues place well. In fact that is why Rose never got past last place in her class- tucked tail and nervousness. I'm sure it happens but I don't think it's terribly common.

Also, I know a lot of people with Westminster dogs and most ethical people will not charge an arm and leg for the pups. As has been mentioned it's not even a for sure the dog will even be bred. It's likely he/she will but not for sure. Uno won BIS and they never bred him.

I'm not defending the dog at all. I didn't see it. Just clarifying based on my experience.

 

[DanL]

This sort of thread was posted on a working dog forum I read, where there are MANY working mal owners, and they were all appalled that their breed has sunk to this level. It didn't even take that long to ruin.

Here's the mal group video:
Untitled Document

They don't even pronouce the name right.

One semi decent thing, the GSD's don't look as bad as usual.

 

[Dekka]

oh sigh. Some breeds still look good. But I can ad Mals to my list of breeds that are changing away from usefulness.

A bad day won't change angles, or snipiness. It might change movement and expression. I don't know mals much.. But just by going by structure and a nice elastic gait.. None of the 3 I liked made it in the top 3.

 

[release the hounds]

The GSD's weren't great, but i've seen much worse. At least they didn't seem outright spooky, that's a plus I guess. To me, they all looked very heavy, thick, and move more like loppy puppies than a quick athletic herding dog. Their rears still look so unstable to me, like I could push them over sideways and they couldn't stop it.

 

[corgipower]

I didn't watch the GSDs. I did watch the pemmies and was quite a bit disturbed by them also.

Especially one in the ring that was panting. Hard. Whether a lack of stamina (considering how much stamina is needed for conformation, that would be rather bad) or from stress, in which case the dog really shouldn't be at among the top corgis... *sigh*

I did once see a GSD win the breed ring who was so spooky, he was backing up into the corner of the ring when the judge examined him and the handler could barely touch him...but he was handled by the top handler in the area, which I guess was all that mattered.

 

[corgipower]

oh sigh. Some breeds still look good. But I can ad Mals to my list of breeds that are changing away from usefulness.

Meh...not necessarily. There are still a lot of people breeding malis strictly for work and sport and not caring about breed ring.

 

[Dekka]

Ok I mean the ones I am likely to see. (its like labs, most of the ones I see are the blocky, floppy, rolly polly labs, vs athletic retrievers)

 

[Laurelin]

Especially one in the ring that was panting. Hard. Whether a lack of stamina (considering how much stamina is needed for conformation, that would be rather bad) or from stress, in which case the dog really shouldn't be at among the top corgis... *sigh*

You don't have to be 'top' to go to Westminster. It's not an invite only show. ; )

 

[Promethean]

Okay I didn't see the mal or watch the show. I did look at win pics but you can't tell temperament from those.

A malinois should not look like this under any circumstances found in a show ring. There is a reason why they are used as military dogs by military and police organizations. A dog that shows this behaviour has the wrong temperament for a Mal.

DanL is right, when I see a show Mal like this, I'm revolted at what show people have done or think is acceptable.